[Suggestion] Open only 'district'

[Riverside]

... but you want to lure them there. So no it isn't salt it is just calling-you out for what you are after - people to be your content. Attempting to insult me with the "salt" nonsense just shows your weak argument. You want a honeytrap area - I say that is what it is - you try to insult me to downplay my remarks - doesn't detract from those remarks veracity.

As others have said too - if you want PvP - go organise some PvP players, don't expect non-PvP builds to be happy for your engineered pirate vessel to overpower them with ease.

I don't think you are making a very good argument here. Currently it is very easy to avoid the overwhelming majority of unwelcomed interactions simply by not going to founders, Deciat or a current CG system in Open. You can choose to not go there (usually what I do) during peak times, or you can just switch to solo when you visit one of those few if you don't want to wait.

If a player is looking for some PvP fun they have to go where everyone else goes. Having that place be somewhere of considerably less value to non-PvP types seems to me to be the mature & sensible way to proceed and not something that should be objected to, because the alternative is what we have now - bored gankers going where everyone else goes.

I know from previous discussions it isn't easy to get PvP players organised, it's like herding cats. So those trying to make it work really don't need arbitrary dislike for the playstyle on top of that. It is very easy to make lots of cash in any mode and in many systems now. The main pressing need for engineering mats comes from PvP or the risk of it, so having those high rewards combined with PvP in some way makes sense.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

An open district would be busy all the time as long as the rewards in the area were sufficient.

I think this is a fundamental flaw in your thinking. People don't fight for a paycheck, they fight for something they believe in.

 

[Screemonster]

The lure of a slight increase of credits/hr isn't all that appealing when it comes with a big sign reading "go here to be a PvPer's content". These increased prices would have to be pretty enticing to make it worth facing a cutter rebuy each trip - enticing enough to be economically gamebreaking for people who fly during the quiet hours.*
After all, as Rinzler put it in his guide, the worst thing for your credits per hour is the rebuy screen.

*

Spoiler: footnote

Like me this morning. In open. At other times of day, going here with enough fuel to wake in but not to wake out would be a very bad idea.

 

[Para Handy]

.......
If a player is looking for some PvP fun they have to go where everyone else goes. Having that place be somewhere of considerably less value to non-PvP types seems to me to be the mature & sensible way to proceed and not something that should be objected to, because the alternative is what we have now - bored gankers going where everyone else goes.
.........

However that is the exact opposite of the OP's suggestion. Specifically they stated "You underestimate the appeal of high credit/material rewards, non-combat players would definitely go into an open only area if it meant they're credits per hour increased by a large margin, or gathering materials was quicker. " (see post #33)

So not exactly "somewhere of considerably less value.." but rather a honeytrap, as I objected to.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Take this for starters: PvP isn't "strictly verboten." From what I understand you can get up to five kills before being removed.

Are you sure? AFAIK you never get removed. You have a permit at the start, and you can eventually lose it (when you gain a promotion for example). At that point you cant return if you leave the zone, but you aren't actively removed.

 

[Screemonster]

Are you sure? AFAIK you never get removed. You have a permit at the start, and you can eventually lose it (when you gain a promotion for example). At that point you cant return if you leave the zone, but you aren't actively removed.

Speaking of being removed, what would happen in this open only zone if someone were to log out and then log back in PG/solo?

 

[Riverside]

However that is the exact opposite of the OP's suggestion. Specifically they stated "You underestimate the appeal of high credit/material rewards, non-combat players would definitely go into an open only area if it meant they're credits per hour increased by a large margin, or gathering materials was quicker. " (see post #33)

So not exactly "somewhere of considerably less value.." but rather a honeytrap, as I objected to.

I suppose so, it would be difficult to create some attractive force that didn't also attract other players. Whatever the incentive I suppose the benefit of creating a new hotspot specifically for PvP it would (ideally) not take anything away from other players.

 

[Riverside]

Speaking of being removed, what would happen in this open only zone if someone were to log out and then log back in PG/solo?

I think the game can prevent this with instancing. You have a point though, some sort of rule would need to be added with a warning message. Grey out the other options maybe.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Why that zone is beginner only is silly. Just make it no PvP. Then we can at least all enter it. I hate not being able to go places. Triton drives me crazy.

 

[Para Handy]

I suppose so, it would be difficult to create some attractive force that didn't also attract other players. Whatever the incentive I suppose the benefit of creating a new hotspot specifically for PvP it would (ideally) not take anything away from other players.

Like I said before - there can surely be no objection to PvP types setting-up base in some system and it seems this was tried and died. My objection is purely aimed at this obvious suggestion of a honey-trap to lure people in to serve as content.

 

[Riverside]

Like I said before - there can surely be no objection to PvP types setting-up base in some system and it seems this was tried and died. My objection is purely aimed at this obvious suggestion of a honey-trap to lure people in to serve as content.

And I guess where we fundamentally disagree is on whether that is a problem or not. There are other honeytraps in the game, the Hutton Run comes to mind (although you do get the free Anaconda)

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I've been playing in open since the beginning and have been part of the PvP community ever since, I understand how everyone in that community thinks and what they are looking for. Namely high traffic areas because that's where either 1) most piracy targets are (miners/traders) 2) most outlaw targets are (pirates/gankers etc) 3) most PvP targets are (i.e other combat players for duels) 4) Most gank targets are (anybody who happens to be there). 'Any systems' are usually 0 traffic dead areas, that's why everyone flocks to Shinrarta and Deciat. An open district would be busy all the time as long as the rewards in the area were sufficient.

For your idea to work, you need to figure out how everybody else thinks.

Peak engineered combat loadout vs anything else is completely asymmetric and not even remotely a contest.
Fitting out your non-combat ship properly doesn't mitigate the problem enough.
Gitting gud will only buy you more time.

Utlmately, you'll lose your ship in one encounter or another in a contest you can never win.

There are a very small numbers of players who might enjoy the challenge of running the gauntlet but nobody else enjoys being your content.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Are you sure? AFAIK you never get removed. You have a permit at the start, and you can eventually lose it (when you gain a promotion for example). At that point you cant return if you leave the zone, but you aren't actively removed.

Never been there, so no! That's just what I heard from someone who allegedly killed some Commanders in the starter zone. If you never get booted that's pretty great.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

For your idea to work, you need to figure out how everybody else thinks.

Peak engineered combat loadout vs anything else is completely asymmetric and not even remotely a contest.
Fitting out your non-combat ship properly doesn't mitigate the problem enough.
Gitting gud will only buy you more time.

Utlmately, you'll lose your ship in one encounter or another in a contest you can never win.

There are a very small numbers of players who might enjoy the challenge of running the gauntlet but nobody else enjoys being your content.

Knowing how the game works if you don't want to be other people's content then why are you clicking on Open Play?

Seriously, people. Figure it out.

 

[Florenus]

That idea is just ridiculous. Griefers and Gankers made sure most people prefer to keep away from Open, so you start to think of ways to force them out?

Why do you figure they would go to your Open Only district if they usually keep away from that mode? Credits? Be serious.

 

[Screemonster]

That idea is just ridiculous. Griefers and Gankers made sure most people prefer to keep away from Open, so you start to think of ways to force them out?

Why do you figure they would go to your Open Only district if they usually keep away from that mode? Credits? Be serious.

If they made the bases there give out improvised components and pharma isolators as mission rewards that's about the only thing that could tempt me to go out of my way to visit it. I can get credits just about anywhere.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I suppose so, it would be difficult to create some attractive force that didn't also attract other players. Whatever the incentive I suppose the benefit of creating a new hotspot specifically for PvP it would (ideally) not take anything away from other players.

I think the easiest way to do it would be Powerplay
- set up one (1) system with Open-only permit locks (log in to PG/Solo while in the system and you just get moved to the nearest detention centre).
- stick a few stations in it, but no NPCs
- stick some surface and space signal sources in it that spawn unique cargo items (signal sources only appear in Open anyway) which disappear if you high-wake or change mode
- selling those cargo items to any station gives some benefit to your power in the wider Powerplay environment (bonus CC, or lower fortification targets, or something) ... or serious penalties if you don't bring enough during a week.
- combat and cargo merit rewards for the individual are high to make it easier to keep rank 5 by participating here
Lots of reasons to fight, lots of people to fight with from the Powerplay PvP communities, single hotspot so you're always likely to find someone, because the items are cargo the various sides need to bring some cargo-capable ships, and ideally ones with a decent size hold, so can't just min-max for pure combat, and making high-waking useless means they need proper escorts to keep them alive too. Even non-Powerplayers can participate by blowing up everyone else to try to weaken all 11 powers simultaneously, or just attacking the power they're trying to keep out of their systems.

Peak engineered combat loadout vs anything else is completely asymmetric and not even remotely a contest.
Fitting out your non-combat ship properly doesn't mitigate the problem enough.
Gitting gud will only buy you more time.

Utlmately, you'll lose your ship in one encounter or another in a contest you can never win.

A decent non-combat build should be able to high-wake with complete reliability if flown well. The problem there is that if you're always high-waking out, waiting for shield recharges, then returning, you're not actually getting any of the mythical Cr/hr or Mats/hr the zone has, and you're basically just hoping that all the PvPers are busy on this run. (If I was going for materials there, I'd probably take an enhanced drives Viper or Courier, which would both have trivial rebuy and be no fun at all for anyone to attack ... or maybe hope for some mission types where you can exploit the "respawn at nearest station" rule so it doesn't matter if anyone shoots you and go there in a Freewinder)

 

[MadDogMurdock]

A decent non-combat build should be able to high-wake with complete reliability if flown well. The problem there is that if you're always high-waking out, waiting for shield recharges, then returning, you're not actually getting any of the mythical Cr/hr or Mats/hr the zone has, and you're basically just hoping that all the PvPers are busy on this run. (If I was going for materials there, I'd probably take an enhanced drives Viper or Courier, which would both have trivial rebuy and be no fun at all for anyone to attack ... or maybe hope for some mission types where you can exploit the "respawn at nearest station" rule so it doesn't matter if anyone shoots you and go there in a Freewinder)

Exactly, the only way not to lose is to run and to optimize for that.

Or, to quote someone smarter than me:
"A strange game.
The only way to win is not to play."

 

[Lateralus]

That idea is just ridiculous. Griefers and Gankers made sure most people prefer to keep away from Open, so you start to think of ways to force them out?

Why do you figure they would go to your Open Only district if they usually keep away from that mode? Credits? Be serious.

How does a small open only district force anybody out of solo? Incentive is not a gun to the head. Like I said, it works in the Division, players go to the Dark Zone for better loot, and understand the risk that they might get shot by players... it's a tried and tested concept.

You guys need to drop this 'forced into open' nonsense, I'm not suggesting that.

 

[Lateralus]

Are you sure? AFAIK you never get removed. You have a permit at the start, and you can eventually lose it (when you gain a promotion for example). At that point you cant return if you leave the zone, but you aren't actively removed.

Never been there, so no! That's just what I heard from someone who allegedly killed some Commanders in the starter zone. If you never get booted that's pretty great.

'Strictly forbidden' is the term actually used in the message you get when you attack players in the starter district;

Attacking fellow commanders in the Pilots' Federation District is strictly forbidden. Continued aggression will lead to revocation of your permit and expulsion from the district.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-the-starter-district-pvp-screenshots.510295/

They do kick you out too, someone I know go kicked out of the area for attacking players there. Basically the game kicks you to the menu and you have to log back in.. you're moved to a station outside of the zone.