Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

[sollisb]

They have said from the very beginning that they are for squadrons only and they mentioned that there will need to be a set amount of squadron members to get one. That is what they have said. Obviously it may change, but I don't expect it to.

That is not assumption, that is exactly what was said around a year ago. They also mentioned needing to get enough of a type of material to get it to jump.

Of course, that may have changed as that was a year ago. But don't expect it to.

Maybe they will be squadron only, but then how do they stop the PS4 owners creating their own squadron with their multiple free accounts?

See they can't have a scenario where PS4 players get it free and PC players don't. And there is absolutely no reason to make them squadron only.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Oh - I remember that bit - apart from "material to get it to jump".

Squadrons only = 10m Cr entry fee (probably plus owning Horizons).

Set number of Squadron members = create as many altCMDRs as required on console for free (or purchase more copies of the game in the sales on PC).

AdamBW indicated that the Carrier would require "resources" to be able to make a jump - which may be materials, of course, however it may be hydrogen fuel - or some combination of both. We don't yet know though.

Glad you now agree with me. As to materials, I am pretty sure they said material of a certain type. Materials are specific things in ED. But my memory on that may be faulty.

The other things I have been saying have been based on what the moveable megaships are like now. Jump range of 500ly, no shipyards etc. Whether they will be like that is another thing, but I wouldn't bet against it. If FDev wanted people to have whole personal fleets jumping to different parts of the galaxy they would have included shipyards in those megaships.

 

[dxm55]

I am pretty sure that Frontier isn't referring to car collectors when they say fleet though. There are several definitions of the term and I'd say we go with the one that is most likely.

That's a fleet:

And that's a fleet as well:

But they aren't the same thing. Why does a German guy always need to explain your language (even though he admittedly sucks at it)?

In life, there are often prerequisites to getting something.

You need a license to drive a car. Then you need insurance in order to drive that car.
You need a degree in a related field to get a particular job.
A car club needs actual members to be considered one. LOL.

Even in ED. You need Fed/Imperial ranks to get at some ships.
Likewise a Squadron for a fleet carrier.

I'm not sure why all these lone wolves don't understand prerequisites.

I'm sure that these guys don't just get behind the wheel and onto the highway without a license do they?
Or maybe it's because they think that because this is a game, rules or prerequisites don't mean a thing.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Maybe they will be squadron only, but then how do they stop the PS4 owners creating their own squadron with their multiple free accounts?

I don't know. They probably can't.

See they can't have a scenario where PS4 players get it free and PC players don't. And there is absolutely no reason to make them squadron only.

That depends on implementation and how much utility a single person can get from one. Sure they maybe able to circumvent the restrictions, but if it's virtually useless for a solo player no matter how many alts they have, there will be little point in anyone doing that.

We shall have to wait and see.

 

[babelfisch]

I don't know. They probably can't.


That depends on implementation and how much utility a single person can get from one. Sure they maybe able to circumvent the restrictions, but if it's virtually useless for a solo player no matter how many alts they have, there will be little point in anyone doing that.

We shall have to wait and see.

I hope that Squadron Fleet Carriers don't have a minimum member requirement. I'd like to see a NPC crew requirement though...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I hope that Squadron Fleet Carriers don't have a minimum member requirement. I'd like to see a NPC crew requirement though...

To do that, they would have to include a new NPC system, but I can't see that happening for a minor update with limited resources (the rest of the team working on 4.0). They have already mentioned a minimum member requirement. I don't expect that to change at the moment.

Now if we get some small personal carriers (2-3 small-medium ships) at a later date which have nothing to do with squadrons, then yes I would also like to see an NPC crew added for that.

 

[Nadreck]

When I've visited asteroid bases hundreds of lightyears from the Bubble, and checked their mission boards, I've seen many missions that my current exploration ship was not equipped to take. And few asteroid bases have shipyards (or even outfitting).

A personal Carrier with a variety of ships onboard would be a good solution.

 

[babelfisch]

To do that, they would have to include a new NPC system, but I can't see that happening for a minor update with limited resources (the rest of the team working on 4.0).

That depends on the time they are working on it. Fleet Carriers have been announced 2 years ago. Hiring NPCs for carriers could be very basic, it doesn't need to be much different from the current system.
That said, it would be awesome to have a more complex system. Did you play PoE2? It's not even a game focused on ships, and yet there are several options. You can pick different NPCs for different roles (navigator, gunner, etc.), you can improve the components of the ship, get supplies, etc.

They have already mentioned a minimum member requirement. I don't expect that to change at the moment.

That's a good reason to lobby for it.

Now if we get some small personal carriers (2-3 small-medium ships) at a later date which have nothing to do with squadrons, then yes I would also like to see an NPC crew added for that.

I think they should just keep the Squadrons mechanic for everything revolving around fleet carriers, it just makes sense from a management perspective. You'll need a dedicated UI for that.

 

[dxm55]

To do that, they would have to include a new NPC system, but I can't see that happening for a minor update with limited resources (the rest of the team working on 4.0). They have already mentioned a minimum member requirement. I don't expect that to change at the moment.

Now if we get some small personal carriers (2-3 small-medium ships) at a later date which have nothing to do with squadrons, then yes I would also like to see an NPC crew added for that.

Honestly speaking, I think the foundations for all those NPC things are already in the game.

NPC crew -
Telepresence is already there in MC. Ditto Crew Lounge.
That means they can simply put a cosmetic requirement for larger ships to go to the crew lounge of the starport and hire a Crew just as a prerequisite to fly the ship.
It's not a big deal.

So that second crew member goes into your co-pilot seat. He or she essentially does nothing except to act as a bloody wallflower.
Or... since you have two Holo-Me characters.... just assign one as your main pilot, and the other as your fill-the-seat lackey.

For the larger three-seater ships, I assume those are the ones with Fighter bays? Put your hired SLF pilot there.


NPC Mercenaries / Wings -
The mechanics for SLF and giving orders are already there. Plus, NPC wings already exist. So obviously the code for ships to follow a leader, as well as take commands, are well established in the game.


NPC Squadron Mates -
Again, just an extension of the above. They just need the squadron to be persistent.
This means that if you give an order for the squad mate to go source for something in the system (like mining a ring), he goes out and does it, and you can see him in-system all of the time. And not in a way that he disappears out of your instance... and magically comes back 30 mins later with the mats you ordered. That's a cheap way out.

If this can happen, then perhaps SOLO/Lone wolf player owned Carriers makes sense.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That depends on the time they are working on it. Fleet Carriers have been announced 2 years ago. Hiring NPCs for carriers could be very basic, it doesn't need to be much different from the current system.
That said, it would be awesome to have a more complex system. Did you play PoE2? It's not even a game focused on ships, and yet there are several options. You can pick different NPCs for different roles (navigator, gunner, etc.), you can improve the components of the ship, get supplies, etc.

I agree. I would love to have an indepth NPC system. Maybe in 2020 we will get it.

That's a good reason to lobby for it.

I am not so sure myself. Squadrons are meant to be like guilds, that is their purpose. Maybe if the game goes offline (when the servers are taken down), then that could be a good idea. But at the moment, I think it will be a lot of work for little use.

That's a good reason to lobby for it I think they should just keep the Squadrons mechanic for everything revolving around fleet carriers, it just makes sense from a management perspective. You'll need a dedicated UI for that.

Well I wouldn't expect any personal ones for some time though. Certainly not in december.

 

[Kaltern]

In life, there are often prerequisites to getting something.

You need a license to drive a car. Then you need insurance in order to drive that car.
You need a degree in a related field to get a particular job.
A car club needs actual members to be considered one. LOL.

Even in ED. You need Fed/Imperial ranks to get at some ships.
Likewise a Squadron for a fleet carrier.

I'm not sure why all these lone wolves don't understand prerequisites.

I'm sure that these guys don't just get behind the wheel and onto the highway without a license do they?
Or maybe it's because they think that because this is a game, rules or prerequisites don't mean a thing.

Bit of a ridiculous analogy.

I have a very high rank in a power. That's a good enough prerequisite.

Solo players probably shouldn't get a huge carrier, with 20 ship capacity and bristling with defence turrets....because that would make no real sense in this game world. However, a smaller ship, capable of carrying a few ships with some mobile facilities would be a very useful thing indeed.

I could absolutely see a carrier capable of repairs, stocking with ammo and other consumables being incredibly useful 10,000ly from the nearest station. All facilities would need resources however, so it wouldn't be a completely free ride.

It would also give players something else to aim for, once they've exhausted the other options like rankings and ship collecting. It would further encourage exploration of the galaxy, which has been largely untouched at the moment.

And none of this would ruin anything for any squadron. Large squadrons are hardly likely to take their carriers to the edges of the galaxy are they. They'll be used for group based scenarios, which would of course be the point of such vessels. I presume these would act very much like Megaships and capital ships do at present.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't know... because perhaps the carrier was first pitched for Squadrons? And that it was a feature meant to incentivize players to get together and play as a group?

And because if it was given freely to anyone, it would defeat its original intended design or purpose as a feature in the first place?

Because we can still blaze our own trail with our own single ship out there?

Complete moo poo

Do you feel threatened that someone else may get something that you want to remain exclusive to pew-pew?

If they are available to squadrons you can bet that folk who find having other 'human' players around a right royal pain will have their squadron and FC.

Why not just wait until FD announce the precise requirements before continuing to argue your agenda

(Just to clarify - I have no interest in having a personal FC, just find others spouting their opinions so tempting)

 

[dxm55]

Bit of a ridiculous analogy.

I have a very high rank in a power. That's a good enough prerequisite.

Solo players probably shouldn't get a huge carrier, with 20 ship capacity and bristling with defence turrets....because that would make no real sense in this game world. However, a smaller ship, capable of carrying a few ships with some mobile facilities would be a very useful thing indeed.

I could absolutely see a carrier capable of repairs, stocking with ammo and other consumables being incredibly useful 10,000ly from the nearest station. All facilities would need resources however, so it wouldn't be a completely free ride.

It would also give players something else to aim for, once they've exhausted the other options like rankings and ship collecting. It would further encourage exploration of the galaxy, which has been largely untouched at the moment.

And none of this would ruin anything for any squadron. Large squadrons are hardly likely to take their carriers to the edges of the galaxy are they. They'll be used for group based scenarios, which would of course be the point of such vessels. I presume these would act very much like Megaships and capital ships do at present.

Well the upcoming update is FLEET carrier. Which means the big one.
So maybe they're better off asking for a smaller personal..... ferry.... in Q4 2020.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Glad you now agree with me. As to materials, I am pretty sure they said material of a certain type. Materials are specific things in ED. But my memory on that may be faulty.

I wasn't disagreeing on what has actually been said by Frontier - more on the assumptions of others.

The other things I have been saying have been based on what the moveable megaships are like now. Jump range of 500ly, no shipyards etc. Whether they will be like that is another thing, but I wouldn't bet against it. If FDev wanted people to have whole personal fleets jumping to different parts of the galaxy they would have included shipyards in those megaships.

I suspect that the feature set of Fleet Carriers will differ quite significantly from Mega-Ships - we don't know yet though.

 

[Nadreck]

Argh! More tortured logic!

No, we can't just gain the benefits of a Carrier by joining somebody else's squadron! At best we'd get to hitch a ride on somebody else's Carrier, going where somebody else wants to go, to do what somebody else wants us to do.

We can do that already! There are several dockable megaships already in the game!

And as for having to "earn" a Carrier, to be "deserving" of one... nope, won't work. If Carriers are restricted to large groups, it should be a no-brainer that very few people will EVER get to actually command one. No matter how much effort you put in, YOU will never get one.

To those who still insist that Carriers should be for large groups only: OK, how many of you are there? I would like to have MY OWN Carrier, to go where I please and do what I like. I am hereby offering you the opportunity to join my squad and be my slaves, help pay for my Carrier, and do whatever grind is needed to fuel and maintain it (because I can't be bothered). This IS what you want, right? Sorry, is that a "no"? Can't say I'm surprised.

Carriers should be available to all (if they make the effort), or to none. If FDev are considering placing barriers to single ownership, they could save themselves a lot of bother by scrapping Carriers altogether and freeing up time to work on bugfixes and features that ALL of us will benefit from. Not just a handful of players.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I wasn't disagreeing on what has actually been said by Frontier - more on the assumptions of others.

I suspect that the feature set of Fleet Carriers will differ quite significantly from Mega-Ships - we don't know yet though.

Im going for the worst case scenario so I don't get disapointed.

 

[babelfisch]

I am not so sure myself. Squadrons are meant to be like guilds, that is their purpose. Maybe if the game goes offline (when the servers are taken down), then that could be a good idea. But at the moment, I think it will be a lot of work for little use.

A lot of work for whom? FDEV? Not really, it's actually less work. It would be the very same thing just without the member cap.
Or for the Solo player who wants to own them? Agreed, but it's also a lot of work to circumvent the Galaxy and yet it's possible.

I think Fleet Carriers should be balanced around Squadrons but if a single person wants to go through the pain, effort and grind to get one himself, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Trotsky2112]

TBH....
I can haz solo carrier FDev?
pleeeeeeeeeeeeez?

 

[babelfisch]

To those who still insist that Carriers should be for large groups only: OK, how many of you are there? I would like to have MY OWN Carrier, to go where I please and do what I like. I am hereby offering you the opportunity to join my squad and be my slaves, help pay for my Carrier, and do whatever grind is needed to fuel and maintain it (because I can't be bothered). This IS what you want, right? Sorry, is that a "no"? Can't say I'm surprised.

I believe you are missing the point. I just don't want you to own a fleet carrier, that's it. I also don't want you to own a Coriolis station or to be the King of the Galaxy.
Personally I am not interested in Fleet Carriers at all. But I want that large groups own them, because that's what makes sense. I like it when the Galaxy makes sense...

Now if FDEV adds a smaller form of Fleet Carriers in a future update that's great, but unless they are already working on it, I don't want them to rebalance the Fleet Carriers that are already planned and balanced for Squadrons, just because a single player wants to own something.

 

[dxm55]

No, we can't just gain the benefits of a Carrier by joining somebody else's squadron! At best we'd get to hitch a ride on somebody else's Carrier, going where somebody else wants to go, to do what somebody else wants us to do.

Is that how squadrons work? At the behest of one CMDR? Or do they work by consensus?

I would think that because it is an asset owned by a community, that community would at least be aligned in their goals.

Otherwise, one would be better off leaving the squadron and forming his own squadron where he thinks he can be king.
Chances are, with an attitude like that, no one would play ball with him. Hence he would be very lonely at the top of his own hill.