Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

[Ralph Vargr]

How?

Instancing. Limited facilities. No movement. No materials/upkeep.

Note that I have not stated "solo" players with Squadron's. Frontier has normally restricted this to PMF's. A ten player group would be the minimum number to have one.

So, player assets are still an unknown. We won't know until Frontier tells us.

 

[Chaparral]

Will people be able to block carriers?

This is a legit issue. If there is a squadron with 500 members, and I have one of them blocked, will I ever be instanced with the system containing that carrier?

I think carrier instancing (even getting a tag in a system for a fleet carrier), will be limited to squadron members or players winged with squadron members that do not belong to the squadron.

 

[Brrokk]

Like blocking other players, essentially. Maybe. Could be useful feature though, but I doubt it.

I'd doubt that as it would need new UI options. ATM one blocks CMDRs by name, not particular ships.

(Which is a great feature implemented with true economy by just using instancing rules).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No no, I meant "blocked" in the manner popularized by the anti-PvP players to interfere with or prevent instancing.

Ok, so i'm quite far into my cups at the moment, so maybe i'm not getting it, but you mean like people using the block function to stop instancing with other players?

That seems unlikely. Blocks work against players, not against objects.

 

[jasonbarron]

Ok, so i'm quite far into my cups at the moment, so maybe i'm not getting it, but you mean like people using the block function to stop instancing with other players?

That seems unlikely. Blocks work against players, not against objects.

If we don't know how carriers move, then how do you figure it's unlikely? Presumably players are going to be on these carriers, and isn't everyone kind of hoping that they'll fly around?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

If we don't know how carriers move, then how do you figure it's unlikely? Presumably players are going to be on these carriers, and isn't everyone kind of hoping that they'll fly around?

The general assumption is that they'll jump from system to system (maybe with a pretty animation if you're outside watching) but there's going to be no actual piloting of them.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If we don't know how carriers move, then how do you figure it's unlikely? Presumably players are going to be on these carriers, and isn't everyone kind of hoping that they'll fly around?

Perhaps some people think they will fly around, but let's be realistic here, and its even in line with current game mechanics and how the bigger ships "move". It will be direct A to B jumping. If i'm wrong, i'll eat a chocolate sock.

 

[Dommarraa]

Choose system, choose body, jump
If that's a jump in system, then tough. Still takes the same effort to refuel.

 

[jasonbarron]

Perhaps some people think they will fly around, but let's be realistic here, and its even in line with current game mechanics and how the bigger ships "move". It will be direct A to B jumping. If i'm wrong, i'll eat a chocolate sock.

How about if it only looks kind of like a chocolate sock but really isn't one? Would you stick to your guns in that case???

 

[jasonbarron]

The general assumption is that they'll jump from system to system (maybe with a pretty animation if you're outside watching) but there's going to be no actual piloting of them.

With players on board, hopefully? If not, then laaaaame.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

How about if it only looks kind of like a chocolate sock but really isn't one? Would you stick to your guns in that case???

Sorry, i'm no tfaddy, it has to be chocolate.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

With players on board, hopefully? If not, then laaaaame.

Lame or not lame, its the most likely way its going to be. Unless FD really go the extra mile on this. Care to make a bet on that?

 

[jasonbarron]

Lame or not lame, its the most likely way its going to be. Unless FD really go the extra mile on this. Care to make a bet on that?

I gave up on Fdev going the extra mile a very long time ago, so I'll pass.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Lame or not lame, its the most likely way its going to be. Unless FD really go the extra mile on this. Care to make a bet on that?

Well FDev could require an active crew to be present on the ship to make it jump. Wrap it up in a bunch of simple minigames that have to be completed in parallel and there's your enforced minimum squadron size

 

[Viktor678]

Given fleet carriers were announced as a chapter four addition, and they do monitor to forums, the year long development has me feeling optimistic that fleet carriers will hit the mark.

 

[Rustnsawdust]

At the risk of dragging this discussion slightly off-topic, there are some things about FCs that bother me...

1. FCs surely have to be Open-only? I play in Solo exclusively and it will be utterly weird if this ghostly Marie Celeste suddenly showed up in my home system with no crew, no ships, no nothing. Contrariwise, look at the salt around Solo players impacting Powerplay and the BGS from the "cowardly shadows" of Solo. Now imagine the salt if FCs allowed a squadron to arrive in a system and deliver a force-multiplier to that gameplay. What could the home faction do to counteract it?

2. FCs must be persistent. How could it possibly work if individual squadron members are flying around a system, destroying local commanders, but then dock with their FC and suddenly disappear? Imagine the (justified) wailing if entire squadrons can combat-log.

3. I don't see a problem if FCs allow squadron members to refuel and rearm, as long as there's an economic mechanic in place to allow that (ie, no free fuel, no free ammo). Anything beyond that becomes massively problematical. So FCs can't possibly have a local market for trading - how would that work? What would determine the buy/sell price if the FC is 20kly from the Bubble? If they're buying, who are they selling to?

4. FCs cannot have an unlimited shipyard. As far as I'm aware, there's no mechanic in the game that allows commanders to be outside one of their own ships. If you're in the game, you're in a ship. The idea that individual commanders would be able to buy an FC and then stock it with multiple ships can't work with the current state of the game, unless FD allows you to transport a ship from a shipyard to the FC. That should be subject to the same cost penalty as normal ship transfers, and it should scale with distance.

5. FCs cannot have a UC franchise aboard. This is such a game-breaking pay-to-win mechanism it can't possibly be justified. If a squadron is 25kly out, it cannot be allowed to turn in exploration data for a 5/10/20ly jump to the FC while non-squadron commanders in the same sector have to jump 20 or 25kly to turn in their data. I believe that happens on the Gnosis but only because the Gnosis is open to everyone - commanders should be able to dock on any FC and use the facilities, or no-one should (including squadron members).

6. There's at least one commander on the forums who constantly refers to FCs as "Capital Ships". This cannot be possible. For the simplest case of balance across modes and gameplay, FCs must be no more than 'carriers' that transport 'fleets'. Unless FD is determined to gift Open multiplayer with illogical benefits, and essentially force players into cooperative Open mode, then a squadron of 25 should have no more benefits than are available to 25 individual commanders.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Given fleet carriers were announced as a chapter four addition, and they do monitor to forums, the year long development has me feeling optimistic that fleet carriers will hit the mark.

Weren't they spending that time working on the 'new era'?

Fleet carriers are going to be a year late. They're not going to be a year better

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

At the risk of dragging this discussion slightly off-topic, there are some things about FCs that bother me...

1. FCs surely have to be Open-only? I play in Solo exclusively and it will be utterly weird if this ghostly Marie Celeste suddenly showed up in my home system with no crew, no ships, no nothing. Contrariwise, look at the salt around Solo players impacting Powerplay and the BGS from the "cowardly shadows" of Solo. Now imagine the salt if FCs allowed a squadron to arrive in a system and deliver a force-multiplier to that gameplay. What could the home faction do to counteract it?

2. FCs must be persistent. How could it possibly work if individual squadron members are flying around a system, destroying local commanders, but then dock with their FC and suddenly disappear? Imagine the (justified) wailing if entire squadrons can combat-log.

3. I don't see a problem if FCs allow squadron members to refuel and rearm, as long as there's an economic mechanic in place to allow that (ie, no free fuel, no free ammo). Anything beyond that becomes massively problematical. So FCs can't possibly have a local market for trading - how would that work? What would determine the buy/sell price if the FC is 20kly from the Bubble? If they're buying, who are they selling to?

4. FCs cannot have an unlimited shipyard. As far as I'm aware, there's no mechanic in the game that allows commanders to be outside one of their own ships. If you're in the game, you're in a ship. The idea that individual commanders would be able to buy an FC and then stock it with multiple ships can't work with the current state of the game, unless FD allows you to transport a ship from a shipyard to the FC. That should be subject to the same cost penalty as normal ship transfers, and it should scale with distance.

5. FCs cannot have a UC franchise aboard. This is such a game-breaking pay-to-win mechanism it can't possibly be justified. If a squadron is 25kly out, it cannot be allowed to turn in exploration data for a 5/10/20ly jump to the FC while non-squadron commanders in the same sector have to jump 20 or 25kly to turn in their data. I believe that happens on the Gnosis but only because the Gnosis is open to everyone - commanders should be able to dock on any FC and use the facilities, or no-one should (including squadron members).

6. There's at least one commander on the forums who constantly refers to FCs as "Capital Ships". This cannot be possible. For the simplest case of balance across modes and gameplay, FCs must be no more than 'carriers' that transport 'fleets'. Unless FD is determined to gift Open multiplayer with illogical benefits, and essentially force players into cooperative Open mode, then a squadron of 25 should have no more benefits than are available to 25 individual commanders.

Brilliant questions. I don't think there's answers to any of those within the current rules of the sandbox.

They did mention the intention was utility and support for existing activites, so there's probably going to be some epic god handing on release. Should be interesting to see what they come up with. They also said there was going to be an upgrade system, hopefully that isn't purely cosmetic (the only thing they hinted at last year).

 

[Rustnsawdust]

I don't think there's answers to any of those within the current rules of the sandbox.

Agreed, but I felt it might be worth laying down some markers.

As a Solo player I don't think FCs are for me, but they do have the potential to seriously (and negatively) impact my gameplay. So I'm keen to flag some of these things for FD to think about. At the same time, I think Solo players - or players who play alone in Open - should be aware of some of the issues.

Time will tell!

 

[Cageman]

FD could simply introduce different classes of Fleet Carriers... the huge ones requiers a Squadron to maintain.... small ones, that can carry, lets say... 6 ships (two small, two medium and two large), and would not require a Squadron solution to maintain... Would be neat indeed.