You seem to suggest different people like different things which has been noted a few times. Do you use EDSM StuartGT?
exploration minigame 6 months later
- Thread starter Spacecat
- Start date
You seem to suggest different people like different things which has been noted a few times. Do you use EDSM StuartGT?
Indeed I do, thanks for noticing
Indeed I do, thanks for noticing
What did I notice? That it looked like you were trying to troll the thread & only accidentally agreed with Marx?
Eh, I responded to your comment from only 30min ago:
Indeed I do, thanks for noticing
And I responded to that that I think you are trolling the thread. It's all laid out in order & everything.
What is your point? You don't seem to have one. Or indeed an opinion of your own. Perhaps the search function is broken & that's why your posts in this thread come across so antagonistically competitive about an inherently subjective topic?
It's okay to disagree
I would be interested to read the views of others, including your own, Id be particularly interested in experiences where one was better, or not as good, actual useful feedback.
You seem to have focused on the idea that the 13th most prolific explorer is in some way analogous to the first, second and third most prolific (I assume). This makes no sense as either an opinion or a competitive argument to Marx's supporting evidence to back up his/her view.
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I already provided my opinion in my first comment to the thread.And I responded to that that I think you are trolling the thread. It's all laid out in order & everything.
What is your point? You don't seem to have one. Or indeed an opinion of your own. Perhaps the search function is broken & that's why your posts in this thread come across so antagonistically competitive about an inherently subjective topic?
It's okay to disagree
My second comment asked for public feedback of the three CMDRs (mentioned by Drew), which Drew kindly provided.
Is everything ok?
I added to my post above to clarify my position, something you do not seem interested in doing StuartGT. There is no need to get so worked up about people not liking things, there is certainly no need to be antagonistic, on this topic people are quite capable of getting frustrated without your 'help'.
Okay
Okay
So clarify your position please StuartGT, your initial post in this thread was simple yet your continued contributions suggest there is more to your opinion than you stated.
Clarify & we can have a decent conversation. Can you provide some examples of where you found the new features useful in a way that you could not do before? Are you one of the many that previously didn't like exploring? Or are you just here to wind people up?
I like that now when I jump into a Star System I have an interesting mechanic of discovering what populates the system; the honk-and-find-everything was simply dull. I'm intrigued to see how it will be used when first-person multicrew is implemented.
I laugh at receiving patronising responses despite my initial constructive feedback thread (dated 15th Sep 2018) which was created to provide CMDRs with a simple, focused avenue to lobby FDev for changes - ones that have been indirectly whined for since 3.3's arrival:
Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers
There are a fair few long-time explorers vocally expressing their disappointment of the planned removal of the Advanced Discovery Scanner's blanket instascan, thereby removing their ability to immediately determine whether a system held any personally-interesting formations/sights. Currently...
I'm thankful for the multiple private communications giving appreciation for my suggesting a viable compromise and predicting the "big picture" issue of a subset of explorers, even while many of said explorers (the few dozen we see interacting in these repetitive anti-FSS threads) chose instead - and still choose - to be short-sighted in their demands to FDev.
I have little interest in lobbying for a small number of entitled anti-FSS drama chasing CMDRs who cannot organise themselves to push for a relatively simple (yet wanted?) change. I prefer to instead focus on improvements to Elite Dangerous that would have a much wider positive impact for the overall multiplayer community, e.g. Open-focused Powerplay, Crossplay, earnable cosmetics (now coming!), better networking/instancing, etc.
Also, I like popcorn
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I like that now when I jump into a Star System I have an interesting mechanic of discovering what populates the system; the honk-and-find-everything was simply dull. I'm intrigued to see how it will be used when first-person multicrew is implemented.
I laugh at receiving patronising responses despite my initial constructive feedback thread (dated 15th Sep 2018) which was created to provide CMDRs with a simple, focused avenue to lobby FDev for changes - ones that have been indirectly whined for since 3.3's arrival:
Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers
There are a fair few long-time explorers vocally expressing their disappointment of the planned removal of the Advanced Discovery Scanner's blanket instascan, thereby removing their ability to immediately determine whether a system held any personally-interesting formations/sights. Currently...forums.frontier.co.uk
I'm thankful for the multiple private communications giving appreciation for my suggesting a viable compromise and predicting the "big picture" issue of a subset of explorers, even while many of said explorers (the few dozen we see interacting in these repetitive anti-FSS threads) chose instead - and still choose - to be short-sighted in their demands to FDev.
I have little interest in lobbying for a small number of entitled anti-FSS drama chasing CMDRs who cannot organise themselves to push for a relatively simple (yet wanted?) change. I prefer to instead focus on improvements to Elite Dangerous that would have a much wider positive impact for the overall multiplayer community, e.g. Open-focused Powerplay, Crossplay, earnable cosmetics (now coming!), better networking/instancing, etc.
Also, I like popcorn
Well done, you provided a tiny bit more feedback that's on topic (review of the changes now rather than just initial impressions) and a bunch more bitterness about other people rather than the topic or the game.
There is no hive mind StuartGT, there is no organised push for change at my end. What there is is feedback both ways and a few trolls trying to disrupt yet another thread with 'I gave up, therefore you should too' defeatist rubbish instead of taking the thread at face value and trying to find common ground.
Traditionally the consumer of popcorn is a passive observer.
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Okay
Okay
So if you're going to continue with the undesirable audience participation role provide some useful feedback, contribute. You are currently a heckler with nothing useful to add, only sarcasm & bitterness. I think this is a shame, you are normally capable of providing useful supporting evidence to help clarify issues, which offsets the abrasiveness. There is nothing to offset it in your contributions to this thread, you are only here to attempt to disrupt any discussion, presumably because you don't want it to be discussed at all.
So qualify your liking the new stuff as everyone else has. Have you tagged anything, or remained in the bubble, did you fast track your way around tagging stars, did you completion scan your way to & from Beagle Point, that kind of thing. No criticism of the style of play (not from me anyway), just confirm that you aren't only trolling the thread, because it sure does seem that way.
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Well seems like the usual FSS is rubbish bring back ADS argument...
My 2 cents
Just holding a button till it went honk and then being able to see all planets - even those 1000's of ls away was not overly engaging - at all. I mean yeah it was easy and required no effort but.....
I mean if I want more info on a planet 1000's of light second away surely my ship has some sort of sensors or scope - oh I see no just the ADS so I want to know more about that planet I best get my super cruise hat on.
Is the new FSS better - well it gives you the ability to investigate a planet from a great distance - which makes sense.
It also makes sense that to get a detailed map of the planet you need to be nearby -- is the probe throwing game any good... meh - you very quickly get to a point where you scan pretty much an elw, ww or aw with just 6 probes - it would be useful if you could program the probe pattern and just then fire all 6 at once but it is not like it takes forever.
However yes it would be useful if you could actually identify where the planets were without going into FSS mode do you could fly to all of them - but - I generally check the FSS and then decide whether to map or move on - however if I can see some planets using parallax then I may do a flyby of them on the way to my next jump just for the fun of it.
Either way you are supposed to be exploring space so there needs to be a bit more to it than the old ADS.
My 2 cents
Just holding a button till it went honk and then being able to see all planets - even those 1000's of ls away was not overly engaging - at all. I mean yeah it was easy and required no effort but.....
I mean if I want more info on a planet 1000's of light second away surely my ship has some sort of sensors or scope - oh I see no just the ADS so I want to know more about that planet I best get my super cruise hat on.
Is the new FSS better - well it gives you the ability to investigate a planet from a great distance - which makes sense.
It also makes sense that to get a detailed map of the planet you need to be nearby -- is the probe throwing game any good... meh - you very quickly get to a point where you scan pretty much an elw, ww or aw with just 6 probes - it would be useful if you could program the probe pattern and just then fire all 6 at once but it is not like it takes forever.
However yes it would be useful if you could actually identify where the planets were without going into FSS mode do you could fly to all of them - but - I generally check the FSS and then decide whether to map or move on - however if I can see some planets using parallax then I may do a flyby of them on the way to my next jump just for the fun of it.
Either way you are supposed to be exploring space so there needs to be a bit more to it than the old ADS.
Except you'll notice that very few of the posts actually said to bring back the ADS. Let's see... First time it was mentioned was on page 3, when I noted that I don't think the ADS was good either, and FD could do better than both bad attempts. (FSS and ADS.)
The next one was Old Duck on page 6 noting that he'd be fine with bringing back the old ADS if some stuff were added to it. Which would make it a new ADS though.
What has been brought up more often was one FD developer's quote where he says that the ADS isn't coming back (okay) and that they are happy with the FSS' state (which was more surprising to me, as it ignores all the bugs and issues it has). They do this as if somehow that post could be used to deflect any and all criticism of the FSS and its plenty of issues, and shut down any discussion that's not completely positive about it.
Sorry, that's not going to work. Asking for feedback is asking for positive and negative feedback both.
Also, I missed this from before:
Sorry, you got the dates wrong. The big drop-offs were after DW2 ended, and the second largest drop-off (back then, the largest that exploration had seen to date) was when the FSS plans were revealed in the middle of last September. That one led to exploration activity dropping to new lows, right up until the Chapter Four update was launched.
The biggest upward spike was when DW2 launched, the second biggest was when Chapter Four launched. In fact, it's quite surprising that DW2 brought more activity than the update's launch did. Otherwise, on Steam charts, neither the start nor the end of DW2 has brought any such large change.
In short, 2019 January to April had the sustained highest activity, peaking in February, starting declining in March, accelerating declining in April, dropping like a rock in May and June. At the end of June, we were back to the activity levels from early 2018, so all the gains from DW2 and the Chapter Four update are gone.
Note: none of the above said anything about the reasons why. But hey, if anyone can put forth any compelling reasons to what caused the significant(!) changes besides the events mentioned above, do feel free to share them with us.
I see here another one of the old dismissive "hold down a button for a few seconds isn't engaging" arguments again, very few found it engaging to press a button, but that it could be done while spooling up the Jump drive and at full chat are compelling plus points, and points that are all too readily overlooked by the specialised ELW, WW, AW hunters... the ones generally after fame and credits... the FSS is right up your street as it gives both in the bucket load.
The common sense stuff you refer too says that the FSS honk knows the details so it allow you to point (in the bluescreen) and get your result... if it knows the details why not fill in the map as a matter of course.
The Handwavium is accepted by the anti ADS crowd because they don't want to know how a signal 1000s of light seconds away gets to them in the blink of an eye with the FSS just as it did with the ADS, the only reason for this is that they would rather sit still and get given stuff for nothing that travel in space (oh the grind) space is big, yeah, unless you have the FSS to shrink it.
Yeah ... what they said
Be mindful though, there are quite a few CMDRs arguing to keep the FSS, but make it work in tandem with a system map kind of representation of the system, which is populated by honking. This to provide the CMDR with an insight of the system layout and have the decision: do I want to continue investigating this system using the FSS. From my point of view, the FSS is not rubbish.
Second, it's not the gameplay nor the mechanism of the ADS I am missing. I am missing the result of the ADS upon which my gameplay was founded. That was the foundation for my first decision: investigate this system, or move on to the next? This decision has been taken away. Now I have no other option than to investigate every system in order to figure out whether I want to investigate a system. A system map., or a representation of the system similar to this would give me the information I need to decide whether to check a system out. If it is, the FSS would have been the perfect tool. 1. evaluate the system using a type of system map, 2 investigate the system using the FSS. and based on the results of the FSS, decide whether I would like to investigate planets up close using probes and / or landing on the surface.
Lastly, it is telling to me how many people argue the FSS is more involved than the ADS, which had no involvement or gameplay whatsoever, but was the starting point or involvement or gameplay. So in effect you're arguing: the FSS is better than holding a button for 5 seconds. Is that really an argument in favour of the FSS? And I must say I enjoy reading "even those 1000's of ls away" when the FSS has unlimited range as well
Bottom line is, there aren't 2 sides arguing against each other here. There are many more. Some want the FSS mechanism without any sort of system map, some are fine with FSS and a downgraded system map. some are fine with FSS and a full system map, some feel features need to be optional so the player can decide how they're going to explore. some don't want the FSS at all, and just the system map. You can't lump all those different points of view together and label it: "Well seems like the usual FSS is rubbish bring back ADS argument"
edit: Also known as: Ziggy is a slow deadbeat who needs too many words to diarrhea his opinion, so is beaten, not by one, but by two posters.
Damnit.
I have read this sentiment many a time. And indeed some CMDRs indeed want to revert back to the ADS sanse FSS.
Be mindful though, there are quite a few CMDRs arguing to keep the FSS, but make it work in tandem with a system map kind of representation of the system, which is populated by honking. This to provide the CMDR with an insight of the system layout and have the decision: do I want to continue investigating this system using the FSS. From my point of view, the FSS is not rubbish.
Second, it's not the gameplay nor the mechanism of the ADS I am missing. I am missing the result of the ADS upon which my gameplay was founded. That was the foundation for my first decision: investigate this system, or move on to the next? This decision has been taken away. Now I have no other option than to investigate every system in order to figure out whether I want to investigate a system. A system map., or a representation of the system similar to this would give me the information I need to decide whether to check a system out. If it is, the FSS would have been the perfect tool. 1. evaluate the system using a type of system map, 2 investigate the system using the FSS. and based on the results of the FSS, decide whether I would like to investigate planets up close using probes and / or landing on the surface.
Lastly, it is telling to me how many people argue the FSS is more involved than the ADS, which had no involvement or gameplay whatsoever, but was the starting point or involvement or gameplay. So in effect you're arguing: the FSS is better than holding a button for 5 seconds. Is that really an argument in favour of the FSS? And I must say I enjoy reading "even those 1000's of ls away" when the FSS has unlimited range as well
Bottom line is, there aren't 2 sides arguing against each other here. There are many more. Some want the FSS mechanism without any sort of system map, some are fine with FSS and a downgraded system map. some are fine with FSS and a full system map, some feel features need to be optional so the player can decide how they're going to explore. some don't want the FSS at all, and just the system map. You can't lump all those different points of view together and label it: "Well seems like the usual FSS is rubbish bring back ADS argument"
edit: Also known as: Ziggy is a slow deadbeat who needs too many words to diarrhea his opinion, so is beaten, not by one, but by two posters.
Damnit.
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Well, I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, after being several weeks out in the black during DW2, I had the craving to do something else for a while.
Didn't have a chance to try out the new mining stuff, so I'm doing that currently.
In my case it has nothing to do with the FSS per se. Love the concept of it, not so much the bugs in it that Fdev simply refuses to fix.
Ah yes, "hold down a button for a few seconds isn't engaging". That's what you did with the ADS to determine if a system might be interesting, and also what you do with the FSS to determine if a system has interesting body types or not. (If you were using other criteria for what might be useful for you? Well, under the bus you went.)
Let's not pretend that all, or even the majority of, explorers are now completionists, shall we? We have data proving that they aren't (and they're also scanning less and less bodies per system), and also, the devs said that the typical use case of the FSS is to glance at the signal bar, and if it doesn't have the body types you're looking for, to move on.
And how do you determine that? Hold down a button, then once the honk completes, press another button bring up the FSS bar.
Let's not pretend that all, or even the majority of, explorers are now completionists, shall we? We have data proving that they aren't (and they're also scanning less and less bodies per system), and also, the devs said that the typical use case of the FSS is to glance at the signal bar, and if it doesn't have the body types you're looking for, to move on.
And how do you determine that? Hold down a button, then once the honk completes, press another button bring up the FSS bar.
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So when all the "the ADS is boring repetitive gameplay that needs removing" threads abounded were you one of the alleged many who defended it? Because honestly, I don't remember anyone actually doing that.
From memory it was universally despised and referred to as a "placeholder" on many occasions.
To my mind the FSS is infinitely better, if not perfect. I haven't really explored much since the update but that's not because of the FSS. It's because I've been doing other things.
Thing is, people who like something don't feel the need to post that fact on internet forums. This is the first post I've made about it but I feel it is necessary to redress the balance a little.