Why can we only Land on Barren Planets after almost 5 years?

[Patrick_68000]

I guess you're right but this is also the road that leads to disappointment. We have a lot of time to grow up high expectations. FDEV should show us time to time pieces of what they are doing to keep our expectations at a realisitc level.

You're right too but the smallest image would betray all the secret.

An image of a tree ? We would know that there will be the atmospheric planets.

An image of a toe ? We know that there will be the space legs.

An image can also disappoint people who are not interested by the subject unveiled by the image, and could leave the game immediately (and also the store).

It's a complicated communication situation, it seems.

 

[Hanerib]

Some of those ELW's out there, with high oxygen content in atmosphere, warmth, pretty normal gravity and atmospheric pressure, those would be ideal conditions for giant spiders. Giant spiders everywhere. And that wouldn't even be alien. Even Earth used to have giant mushrooms. How about an ELW that was orbiting very far away from a neutron star, had a massive atmosphere, but no plate tectonics? No volcanism means it's dead inside. Conventional life needs magnetism to protect atmosphere. That would be just crazy. How about those plasma based life forms?

 

[Wobblin-Gobblin]

You can see it everywhere -> the lack of communication, the sluggish way the devs appear in the forum (if they appear!), the implementation of new 'things' into the game -> bugs, GalNet etc.

It's really a mess.

 

[[VR] wi03016]

You can see it everywhere -> the lack of communication, the sluggish way the devs appear in the forum (if they appear!), the implementation of new 'things' into the game -> bugs, GalNet etc.

It's really a mess.

FD = ill communication

 

[Viajero]

Trying to do atmospheric planets is an utterly gargantuan task that is far greater than simply throwing together some basic air resistance a few templates for life.

A basic start is that they need to look at the current chemical composition, temperature and lighting/radiation conditions of the planet. After applying a healthy dose of chemistry to the whole thing, then they can figure out what the actual end result of the chemical nature of the planet and atmosphere is and whether it has any liquid oceans, any ongoing precipitation as well as any volcanic activity. This alone is quite a task; it's a fair amount of work to figure out what a single planet would be but to script a fully generalised planetary chemical simulator is staggeringly difficult and would probably take years of collaboration between chemists, astrophysicists and coders.

After that, there's the even bigger task of determining which of those chemistries are able to sustain life. We all know that carbon, hydrogen and oxygen mix together to create life, but what about silicon/silicone based life forms? What about replacing the water as a solvent with ammonia, hydrogen sulphide or even hydrocarbons? Can phosphorous or nitrogen polymerise to form organic molecules? How might metals interact with these other chemical compositions? Which of these compositions would remain stable yet workable at the temperatures, magnetic fields and radiation levels for a given planet?

And that's all before we even get to where the life on the planet would actually be or what form it would take. Even before we worry about whether it would be more plant-like and photosynthesise for energy, or whether they would remain lithovorous and subsist on unstable minerals in the planetary crust or around vents, we would need to get the basics of their chemistry down. Depending on their chemistry, they would then alter the planetary atmosphere and chemical composition further (such as how Earth "naturally" shouldn't have an oxygen atmosphere but instead a nitrogen/carbon dioxide atmosphere but life came along and ruined it), which may then trigger further alterations.

In all, it would be several years work for a 2 dozen strong team of specialists to have a basic atmospheric planet that you can land on and admire a funny coloured bacteria-like stain on a rock. Once you get into macroscopic life, it adds entirely new levels of difficulty.

That is assuming FDEV is aiming to remain consistent with its physics and chemistry based system modelling of course.

Otherwise they could just slap a few arbitrary atmospheric filters and colouring effects here or there like NMS or SC and be done with it.

Either way I think there are also elements of revenue distribution plan and product life cycle that influence actual release dates decisions, in addition to the basic resource or technical constraints often deadhorsed in these discussions. FDEV is starting its age of self publishing and needs to make sure revenue from its still limited portfolio is optimally distributed.

 

[babelfisch]

You can see it everywhere -> the lack of communication, the sluggish way the devs appear in the forum (if they appear!), the implementation of new 'things' into the game -> bugs, GalNet etc.

It's really a mess.

Elite Dangerous is one of the only games where Devs actually do post on the forums.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I decided to wait for the end of 2020 to complain furthermore.
They said they have 100 people working at the game and the full production started more than 1 year ago. It means that they have roughly
460,000 hours of development for the New Era.
With such manpower, it really takes a high level of incompetence not being able to release Legs and Atmospheric Planets.
And if they fail it's also clear that the game that Frontier is developing is not the same that we want.

A 100 person team is not that big and a two year time frame in game development is not that long either. Legs will be like a whole new game added (according to Fdev), to do that really well with just a 100 person strong team and in 2 years is a hell of a task. If they can do that and add atmospheric planets I will be giving them a massive round of applause as it will be some feat.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

You're right too but the smallest image would betray all the secret.

An image of a tree ? We would know that there will be the atmospheric planets.

An image of a toe ? We know that there will be the space legs.

An image can also disappoint people who are not interested by the subject unveiled by the image, and could leave the game immediately (and also the store).

It's a complicated communication situation, it seems.

I'll make an example of what I would expect.
IMHO at this point after all the speculations and the leak about space legs they should come up with a generic statement like:
"there were a lot or rumors in the past few months about Space Legs, I can confirm that the dev team started working on this and that there will be some EVA in the new era but at this point we can't say yet how much we can add to the game and how deep this will be, but be sure you'll be able to get up from your seat and explore places in first person, standing on your legs".
BOOM!

If they can't make any announcement about legs because they are not developing space legs then you can be sure that this silence will not save the game from a massive disappointment next year anyway.
Instead it would be better to say it now when most players attention is focused on other games, rather than waiting next year when the hype will be at much higher levels.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Legs will be like a whole new game added (according to Fdev), to do that really well with just a 100 person strong team and in 2 years is a hell of a task.

Yeah but they're about to do it for the third time since elite dangerous itself has been released. You can't argue they selectively lose the ability and suddenly its too hard. 3x 2 year "whole new game".

Maybe all the skilled devs were just chomping at it for the opportunity to work on a game they would actually go home and play every night. That's fair enough.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

ED is yesterday's game. "New Era" is just a marketing ploy to keep people buying cosmetics.

Would have worked too if it wasn't for the fss.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

with just a 100 person strong team and in 2 years is a hell of a task

There are very good games that have been developed with much less manpower.
Remember also that the full game "Elite: Dangerous" has been developed with less manpower so it depends on how deep and complex they want to do it. I hope it's gonna be simpler than SC that has got far too many animations. I wish it will be basic movements (no crouch, crawiling and so on) but with more gameplay (missions, exploration).

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I'll make an example of what I would expect.
IMHO at this point after all the speculations and the leak about space legs they should come up with a generic statement like:
"there were a lot or rumors in the past few months about Space Legs, I can confirm that the dev team started working on this and that there will be some EVA in the new era but at this point we can't say yet how much we can add to the game and how deep this will be, but be sure you'll be able to get up from your seat and explore places in first person, standing on your legs".
BOOM!

If they can't make any announcement about legs because they are not developing space legs then you can be sure that this silence will not save the game from a massive disappointment next year anyway.
Instead it would be better to say it now when most players attention is focused on other games, rather than waiting next year when the hype will be at much higher levels.

Or 2 seconds of a gif showing the doors at the back of a Cobra Mk3 sliding open in first person or one flying over a lake (if they are doing atmospheric landings). Put it on their social media channels with no commentary.

 

[babelfisch]

Regarding communication:

21.08.2018
Sean Murray says there will be more updates.
Wow, much communication. Frontier has never done that.

Silence.

16.03.2019
Beyond gets announced. That was like 5 months ago. It will be released in summer and there will be improvements to multiplayer. Other than that it will be awesome and exciting.

Silence.

26.03.2019
Again, 5 months ago. VR gets announced. We learn that there will be three things, multiplayer and VR and the third thing remains a mystery. That's such an awesome communication strategy...

Silence.

03.08.2019
We have a release date! That's like 11 days before the release. Sean Murray also confirms that the multiplayer part will not turn NMS into a MMO. That's good to know 11 days before release.

09.08.2019
We learn that there will be a 32 player cap. The mysterious 3rd part are QOL improvements.

I don't want to bash Hello Games, they created an awesome game (just not my type of thing) and their communication strategy is just as valid as Frontiers.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I dearly hope the now much hyped big update in 2020 is more akin to 2015's planetary landings in technical bar raising efforts, than the list of mediocre, ill considered, unbalanced, shallow plug ons that has all but plagued the years since.

Is it in fronters development culture / DNA to develop games that are not like this? Chance has it that im interested in pretty much all of frontiers titles, even planet zoo, and guess what.. they ALL feel like elite in the barely coherent box of tools in a genre no one else is competing in, with above average graphics and audio.

Its really apparently frontier look at everything they do as sandbox builders / tool makers. I haven't seen one example where player experience has designed it. Look at the tutorials for elite, added post humerously.. voice acting? A+. Meeting some expectation read of "social"? A+ Actually helping new players? zero.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This community complains a lot, but never votes with their wallets or play time. Without motivation in an existing space, It makes absolute sense for the developer to look for opportunities in new and underdeveloped spaces (i.e. park sims) and invest resources in them. New games generate sales at premium prices, old games do not.

That's because there's no other choice. Imagine if elite had real competition... Its all junk so far or in a non overlapping gameplay focus. I don't think this is by accident on frontiers part...

Frontier's ethos on remaining silent is frustrating to say the least. The only thing we "know" about New Era is stuff from a supposed leak. It would be one thing if NE was three or four years out, but it's supposedly releasing in just over a year. Surely they have a clue as to what NE will encompass, big picture wise. Why not share that big picture?

Either you have to wait for lavecon, or they have no idea if they can actually build it. That's a valid risk.

TL;DR -> The Cobra engine is antiquated rubbish relying on super computers to do what a PS2 could do 20 years ago

Thats not fair its amazing. You should see jurassic world evolution.. the green everywhere is a dumb choice but if you look at the details its immense. What's a bit rubbish is how much frontier don't care about their own reputation for software quality. You must know on ps4 you can't even confirm control pad changes because you're unable to select the confirm button... you have to use the accept all shortcut or not confirm.

 

[Old Duck]

You don't actually believe that.

You are correct!

 

[Old Duck]

That why I like Elite Dangerous. We don't lose anything when they update something.

Cough cough ADS cough decent shadows cough cough working menus cough cough etc cough....

I think I need a glass of water!

 

[Jools]

Also, FD usually simulates everything natural in this game as precisely as possible within reason. The main issue facing them might be how to simulate liquids and the effects of them. There are cascading issues from introducing liquids: Vapour behaviour, cloud formation and precipitation are some. Others include introducing sedimentary ground features and the behaviour of bodies of water. Tides may need simulating too. For dry bodies that is not an issue: While there are tides (moon+sun system lifts the earths crust about 0.5 m), their effect is not very visible when there is only one very rigid body type to pull at. But add liquids (and gasses!) of any kind to the system and everything literally and figuratively turns into a mess really fast.

After a shaky descent through the islands of ephemeral atmosphere surrounding their volcanic vents, I would like to stand on the "shores" of some of the close icy moon couplets in tight orbit around their parent gas giants and watch the methane tides roll in and out though. Come-on FD, you can do it!

S

Go to a debris field
Deploy your lasers
Shoot some debris with that laser and watch them being launched into space

than come here again to tell us about the amazing physics this game has

you people live in some dream land

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

What is a FDEV apologist?

Easy. Someone who doesn't mark frontier on their actual game release / code / products and commonly increases praise or limits criticism back to their fair score.

 

[Captain Willard]

Write a few million lines of code and send it to FD free.
I'll wait.