Will exploration change with the new fleet carriers?

[NeilF]

We also do not know how much fuel will be necessary to mine for one 500 LYs jump and where (asteroids ?).

If it will be something like "find a nearby system where is the asteroid belt", scan for Unobtainium hotspot, mine and refine 256t of Unobtainium from 500 asteroids, than I can imagine that Explorers will not use FCs.

Can't envisage it being tied to mining asteroids or surfaces? Because that might prove too restrictive?

Maybe something tied into fuel scooping? So as you fuel scoop, you now also collect the new Unobtainium material too? And this would require a number of repeats of scooping and dropping off to the FC to fill it up?

But my fear is something like that would be insanely tedious/dull would it not? But TBH (worringly), completely within the standards of some of FDs designs...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Understood, but I'm torn here. I can't see an FC being allowed to jump regularly (eg: more than a couple of times a day). But then what's the purpose of exploration and rescue role FCs then? Maybe those have the ability to jump more regularly/fuel efficiently? But I wouldn't be surprised if FD simply expect them to be used at that rate. eg: Your Exploration FC can only move 1000ly per day... etc...

Guess we'll see...

I think you're over-thinking it.
Exploration -> Universal Cartographics contact
Rescue -> Search and Rescue contact

 

[PavelKCZ]

Can't envisage it being tied to mining asteroids or surfaces? Because that might prove too restrictive?

Maybe something tied into fuel scooping? So as you fuel scoop, you now also collect the new Unobtainium material too? And this would require a number of repeats of scooping and dropping off to the FC to fill it up?

But my fear is something like that would be insanely tedious/dull would it not? But TBH (worringly), completely within the standards of some of FDs designs...

I don't suppose that fuel will be available on surfaces, because if I understand it correctly, the FCs will be available also for those, who do not have Horizonts. So, the mining must be available in space.

 

[NeilF]

I think you're over-thinking it.
Exploration -> Universal Cartographics contact
Rescue -> Search and Rescue contact

I suspect that might be all it is... But if we consider FCs as a whole, can you envisage them (eg: in Trading and other roles) jumping every hour or so, continuously? You don't see that risking compromising/affecting other mechanics around the core systems? So if FCs are (all) limited to a couple of jumps (one?) a day at best, that's a major effect on their usefulness for Exploration and Rescue roles surely?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Depends what gameplay is involved.

I've always said that I'd like it if our ships required regular maintenance, whether that be accessing some kind of HUD to play different mini-games to tune-up various systems or having to look for certain types of planet, to find various mat's to make repairs at regular intervals.

My exploraconda does 80Ly jumps so I can honk-jump almost 5kLy/hr if I want to.
I'd be quite happy if I had to stop every 5kLy and spend a day looking for mat's or doing other stuff (preferably other stuff - more interesting, challenging, other stuff) to repair my ship before I could travel another 5kLy.

Let's face it, games like Subnautica and Minecraft are 99% "grind" but they're enjoyable because they manage to dress the grind up in interesting, diverse, ways which means it doesn't usually feel like grind.
If FDev could just come up with a handful of different ways to do things, aside from the current scavenging mechanic, it'd probably go a long way to improve people's attitude toward getting stuff done.

Anyway, point being that it's a bit unfair to be critical of a Carrier's maintenance requirements (whatever they might turn out to be) simply cos we're so used to travelling around endlessly in maintenance-free ships.

Subnautica and Minecraft are builder sandboxes. Your creativity is the limit. ED isnt a builder sandbox. The limit is what you can endure to grind.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I suspect that might be all it is... But if we consider FCs as a whole, can you envisage them (eg: in Trading and other roles) jumping every hour or so, continuously? You don't see that risking compromising/affecting other mechanics around the core systems? So if FCs are (all) limited to a couple of jumps (one?) a day at best, that's a major effect on their usefulness for Exploration and Rescue roles surely?

I see the carriers as being support ships for existing activities - not performing activities in themselves. Therefore an Exploration ship doesn't have to jump quickly - it jumps, you explore the surrounding area, then you jump again. It's not intended to get you to Beagle Point in a couple of hours.

Also, see @Factabulous's post linking to FDev's response about jumping and fueling.

 

[PavelKCZ]

We will see. Until Beta (if there will be some kind of Beta) all those things are pure speculations...

 

[NeilF]

I see the carriers as being support ships for existing activities - not performing activities in themselves. Therefore an Exploration ship doesn't have to jump quickly - it jumps, you explore the surrounding area, then you jump again. It's not intended to get you to Beagle Point in a couple of hours.

Understood but I think you're missing the point being made/discussed? If an exploration FC can only jump once or so a day is that useful, considering Exploration at times involves the CMDR wanting to jump vaste distance ASAP?

And if an FC can jump numerous times a day there's of course then the risk of any related mining/trading/etc related gameplay they offer/build upon unbalancing existing gameplay (eg: the rate at which goods can be moved/traded over long distances).

Again, we'll see when we see.... But there's obviously things (such as jump frequency) to consider/balance across different roles possibly?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Understood but I think you're missing the point being made/discussed? If an exploration FC can only jump once or so a day is that useful, considering Exploration at times involves the CMDR wanting to jump vaste distance ASAP?

And if an FC can jump numerous times a day there's of course then the risk of any related mining/trading/etc related gameplay they offer/build upon unbalancing existing gameplay (eg: the rate at which goods can be moved/traded over long distances).

Again, we'll see when we see.... But there's obviously things (such as jump frequency) to consider/balance across different roles possibly?

I think the Exploration carrier is intended to be useful when you get there, not for getting you there.

Similarly, the Mining carrier is going to be useful for storing your mined commodities. It's not going to actually help you mine.

Basically they're another way to avoid having to fly around in space, since people don't seem to enjoy doing that in this flyng around in space game.

 

[NeilF]

I think the Exploration carrier is intended to be useful when you get there, not for getting you there.

Similarly, the Mining carrier is going to be useful for storing your mined commodities. It's not going to actually help you mine.

Basically they're another way to avoid having to fly around in space, since people don't seem to enjoy doing that in this flyng around in space game.

Yes, but if you can only jump your FC for example once or twice a day, the issue with be getting it where you want to be

If you can jump it every 30 minutes (so it can cover distances still slower than an Anaconda) the issue might be then what gameplay might it break/affect in the core. eg: As regards moving/trading commodities?

Again these are all unknowns, but I'm just highlighting the issues that FD must be facing in deciding how often FCs can jump across the board, or if different FC roles means different jump timings/criteria?

Going to be interesting

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating:

It all comes down to two factors:

1. Fuel - Depending in how Carriers are fueled, how available that fuel is, and how much time and effort are involved in refueling one, deep space deployment may or may not be entirely realistic. If it takes half the carrier’s complement half a day to refuel, few are going to want to take these very far.

2. How and When Carriers Move - We know we can “Schedule a jump” at any time, from the GalMap. We don’t know who we’re scheduling with, or any of the important details about how these will move. If they’re moved weekly, I see a lot of Carriers making permanent homes 500 light years from where they started. For me, to get a Carrier to where I am currently, it would take around 60 jumps of 500 light years.

If that’s 1 jump per week, that would take one year, two months. That’s just not practical in any way, shape or form. Combine that with Unknown #1, and it could potentially double that time. This would make Carriers a no-go for Exploration at all.

On the flip side, if refueling is a pretty simple matter that takes 15 minutes, and we can choose a “Jump Now” option, then these become much more viable an option and could change the nature of deep space, long range exploration a bit. The degree of change then hinges on one more factor:

3. Scanning - I don’t expect Carriers to have Discovery Scanners, Full Screen Scanners, or Detailed Surface Scanners, so that means jumping out somewhere in a Carrier, boarding a suitably outfitted ship, jumping to local super cruise, making scans, docking back up with the Carrier, refueling and making the next jump and repeating.

People already complain pressing the Frane Shift button twice to make an emergency stop is “too much grind”, so Carrier-based Exploration is not for them.

I am also fully expecting, at any time, for Commanders GiveUsBackTheOldADS to show up here and start making their pitch again, so I’ll just head them off here.

I would NOT object to Carriers having their own type of scanner that gives them some measure of the functionality they keep clamoring for - a sort of blank “Unknown” body scan and flatmap (system map) listing of Unknown, Undiscovered bodies in a system, masked as black objects with no details, that generate no Discovered tags - just “there’s something here”, be it Planet, moon, or completely worthless Asteroid belt. They’d still have to use the current discovery tools to make the discovery, get the credit (and credits) for finding something more than “there’s something here”, just like everyone else.

Why do I not object here? It just makes sense - you wouldn’t want a Carrier ramming into a body in the void, nor would you want to make a witchspace jump and pull some poor planet or moon into you wake and wind up with another Raxxla.

So as a basic Navigational Sensor, it makes sense. They could even call it that: “Navigational Sensor”.

Now, if all the pieces fall into places, I could see group exploration becoming a very real thing, where a Carrier brings up to 15 other explorers into a region, everybody jumps one full jump in a different direction and starts charting that region of space. Some good, concentrated efforts well coordinated could chart the entirety of the galaxy in a relatively short time (perhaps years rather than decades).

 

[Factabulous]

I’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating:

It all comes down to two factors:

1. Fuel - Depending in how Carriers are fueled, how available that fuel is, and how much time and effort are involved in refueling one, deep space deployment may or may not be entirely realistic. If it takes half the carrier’s complement half a day to refuel, few are going to want to take these very far.

2. How and When Carriers Move - We know we can “Schedule a jump” at any time, from the GalMap. We don’t know who we’re scheduling with, or any of the important details about how these will move. If they’re moved weekly, I see a lot of Carriers making permanent homes 500 light years from where they started. For me, to get a Carrier to where I am currently, it would take around 60 jumps of 500 light years.

If that’s 1 jump per week, that would take one year, two months. That’s just not practical in any way, shape or form. Combine that with Unknown #1, and it could potentially double that time. This would make Carriers a no-go for Exploration at all.

On the flip side, if refueling is a pretty simple matter that takes 15 minutes, and we can choose a “Jump Now” option, then these become much more viable an option and could change the nature of deep space, long range exploration a bit. The degree of change then hinges on one more factor:

3. Scanning - I don’t expect Carriers to have Discovery Scanners, Full Screen Scanners, or Detailed Surface Scanners, so that means jumping out somewhere in a Carrier, boarding a suitably outfitted ship, jumping to local super cruise, making scans, docking back up with the Carrier, refueling and making the next jump and repeating.

People already complain pressing the Frane Shift button twice to make an emergency stop is “too much grind”, so Carrier-based Exploration is not for them.

I am also fully expecting, at any time, for Commanders GiveUsBackTheOldADS to show up here and start making their pitch again, so I’ll just head them off here.

I would NOT object to Carriers having their own type of scanner that gives them some measure of the functionality they keep clamoring for - a sort of blank “Unknown” body scan and flatmap (system map) listing of Unknown, Undiscovered bodies in a system, masked as black objects with no details, that generate no Discovered tags - just “there’s something here”, be it Planet, moon, or completely worthless Asteroid belt. They’d still have to use the current discovery tools to make the discovery, get the credit (and credits) for finding something more than “there’s something here”, just like everyone else.

Why do I not object here? It just makes sense - you wouldn’t want a Carrier ramming into a body in the void, nor would you want to make a witchspace jump and pull some poor planet or moon into you wake and wind up with another Raxxla.

So as a basic Navigational Sensor, it makes sense. They could even call it that: “Navigational Sensor”.

Now, if all the pieces fall into places, I could see group exploration becoming a very real thing, where a Carrier brings up to 15 other explorers into a region, everybody jumps one full jump in a different direction and starts charting that region of space. Some good, concentrated efforts well coordinated could chart the entirety of the galaxy in a relatively short time (perhaps years rather than decades).

Sounds like you might want to read this post from fdev - answers some of your questions.

Edit: Added the actual link ... https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/gamescom-reveals-fleet-carrier-details.520110/post-7970269

 

[NeilF]

I’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating:

It all comes down to two factors:

1. Fuel - Depending in how Carriers are fueled, how available that fuel is, and how much time and effort are involved in refueling one, deep space deployment may or may not be entirely realistic. If it takes half the carrier’s complement half a day to refuel, few are going to want to take these very far.

2. How and When Carriers Move - We know we can “Schedule a jump” at any time, from the GalMap. We don’t know who we’re scheduling with, or any of the important details about how these will move. If they’re moved weekly, I see a lot of Carriers making permanent homes 500 light years from where they started. For me, to get a Carrier to where I am currently, it would take around 60 jumps of 500 light years.

If that’s 1 jump per week, that would take one year, two months. That’s just not practical in any way, shape or form. Combine that with Unknown #1, and it could potentially double that time. This would make Carriers a no-go for Exploration at all.

On the flip side, if refueling is a pretty simple matter that takes 15 minutes, and we can choose a “Jump Now” option, then these become much more viable an option and could change the nature of deep space, long range exploration a bit. The degree of change then hinges on one more factor:

3. Scanning - I don’t expect Carriers to have Discovery Scanners, Full Screen Scanners, or Detailed Surface Scanners, so that means jumping out somewhere in a Carrier, boarding a suitably outfitted ship, jumping to local super cruise, making scans, docking back up with the Carrier, refueling and making the next jump and repeating.

People already complain pressing the Frane Shift button twice to make an emergency stop is “too much grind”, so Carrier-based Exploration is not for them.

I am also fully expecting, at any time, for Commanders GiveUsBackTheOldADS to show up here and start making their pitch again, so I’ll just head them off here.

I would NOT object to Carriers having their own type of scanner that gives them some measure of the functionality they keep clamoring for - a sort of blank “Unknown” body scan and flatmap (system map) listing of Unknown, Undiscovered bodies in a system, masked as black objects with no details, that generate no Discovered tags - just “there’s something here”, be it Planet, moon, or completely worthless Asteroid belt. They’d still have to use the current discovery tools to make the discovery, get the credit (and credits) for finding something more than “there’s something here”, just like everyone else.

Why do I not object here? It just makes sense - you wouldn’t want a Carrier ramming into a body in the void, nor would you want to make a witchspace jump and pull some poor planet or moon into you wake and wind up with another Raxxla.

So as a basic Navigational Sensor, it makes sense. They could even call it that: “Navigational Sensor”.

Now, if all the pieces fall into places, I could see group exploration becoming a very real thing, where a Carrier brings up to 15 other explorers into a region, everybody jumps one full jump in a different direction and starts charting that region of space. Some good, concentrated efforts well coordinated could chart the entirety of the galaxy in a relatively short time (perhaps years rather than decades).

I agree with everything you say, except for that last sentence I suspect?

Aren't we way off even 1% yet, in five years, and that's even with the advantage of being able to explorer all the nearer stars first?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Fuel, FDev say:

It will be a new commodity, which can be mined or bought from certain starports. We will be exploring this in more detail in a future livestream closer to the December Update.

You’re surely going to be able to fuel up for a few jumps and so I guess that leaves the possibility of ‘topping up’ by mining when in a suitable system.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Sounds like you might want to read this post from fdev - answers some of your questions.

Which post? I’ve been hearing about it, but haven’t found it. Tried to follow a quote I saw from Stephen and wound up on the wrong page somewhere else in the thread.

 

[Factabulous]

Which post? I’ve been hearing about it, but haven’t found it. Tried to follow a quote I saw from Stephen and wound up on the wrong page somewhere else in the thread.

Oops, forgetting the link was my bad https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/gamescom-reveals-fleet-carrier-details.520110/post-7970269

Though it's the same as elsewhere - you might need to click through all the dev posts in that thread - there aren't too many - it's the last one ...

Edit: Near the end of p47 for me - I think the page sizes aren't configurable now, though on mobile YMMV

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating:

It all comes down to two factors:

1. Fuel - Depending in how Carriers are fueled, how available that fuel is, and how much time and effort are involved in refueling one, deep space deployment may or may not be entirely realistic. If it takes half the carrier’s complement half a day to refuel, few are going to want to take these very far.

2. How and When Carriers Move - We know we can “Schedule a jump” at any time, from the GalMap. We don’t know who we’re scheduling with, or any of the important details about how these will move. If they’re moved weekly, I see a lot of Carriers making permanent homes 500 light years from where they started. For me, to get a Carrier to where I am currently, it would take around 60 jumps of 500 light years.

If that’s 1 jump per week, that would take one year, two months. That’s just not practical in any way, shape or form. Combine that with Unknown #1, and it could potentially double that time. This would make Carriers a no-go for Exploration at all.

On the flip side, if refueling is a pretty simple matter that takes 15 minutes, and we can choose a “Jump Now” option, then these become much more viable an option and could change the nature of deep space, long range exploration a bit. The degree of change then hinges on one more factor:

3. Scanning - I don’t expect Carriers to have Discovery Scanners, Full Screen Scanners, or Detailed Surface Scanners, so that means jumping out somewhere in a Carrier, boarding a suitably outfitted ship, jumping to local super cruise, making scans, docking back up with the Carrier, refueling and making the next jump and repeating.

People already complain pressing the Frane Shift button twice to make an emergency stop is “too much grind”, so Carrier-based Exploration is not for them.

I am also fully expecting, at any time, for Commanders GiveUsBackTheOldADS to show up here and start making their pitch again, so I’ll just head them off here.

I would NOT object to Carriers having their own type of scanner that gives them some measure of the functionality they keep clamoring for - a sort of blank “Unknown” body scan and flatmap (system map) listing of Unknown, Undiscovered bodies in a system, masked as black objects with no details, that generate no Discovered tags - just “there’s something here”, be it Planet, moon, or completely worthless Asteroid belt. They’d still have to use the current discovery tools to make the discovery, get the credit (and credits) for finding something more than “there’s something here”, just like everyone else.

Why do I not object here? It just makes sense - you wouldn’t want a Carrier ramming into a body in the void, nor would you want to make a witchspace jump and pull some poor planet or moon into you wake and wind up with another Raxxla.

So as a basic Navigational Sensor, it makes sense. They could even call it that: “Navigational Sensor”.

Now, if all the pieces fall into places, I could see group exploration becoming a very real thing, where a Carrier brings up to 15 other explorers into a region, everybody jumps one full jump in a different direction and starts charting that region of space. Some good, concentrated efforts well coordinated could chart the entirety of the galaxy in a relatively short time (perhaps years rather than decades).

I think it's more likely that you'll need to explore a system in a regular ship, before you can jump the carrier there - unless there's a Nav Beacon.

Edit:
For the record, I don't think carriers should have an ADS, or anything similar. Exploration carriers should support exploration, not explore themselves.

Also, regarding getting the carrier to where you are - I assume you're talking about using an alt to do so.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Exploration will not change as long as nothing new is there.

Thinking it twice... Actually reaching Beagle Point in a Sidey won't be such a huge adventure anymore... I can already imagine on Reddit a new generation of "Beagle Point in a Sidewinder" selfie...

 

[Watcher]

Yes and no.

I imagine it'll add additional options but not stop you exploring as you do now, that's still fun but you might find you are being less efficient or effective.

Refuel again a thing, if it's a lot of hassle then, well, going to be a hassle. That they have an exploration configuration suggests they won't make it too much of a pain. Probably..

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Oops, forgetting the link was my bad https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/gamescom-reveals-fleet-carrier-details.520110/post-7970269

Though it's the same as elsewhere - you might need to click through all the dev posts in that thread - there aren't too many - it's the last one ...

Edit: Near the end of p47 for me - I think the page sizes aren't configurable now, though on mobile YMMV

I found this:

Greetings Commanders,

The Gamescom Fleet Carrier Reveal was such an exciting moment for us, and after reading through your feedback, we can see that it was also exciting for you! We wanted to take this opportunity to answer some of your questions, keeping in mind that we will be revealing more about Fleet Carriers, closer to the December Update.


Will Fleet Carriers jump on the Thursday Server tick?
Fleet Carriers will not be restricted to the Thursday server tick in order to jump.

Can you clarify what 'unique' resources are?
It will be a new commodity, which can be mined or bought from certain starports. We will be exploring this in more detail in a future livestream closer to the December Update.

Will Fleet Carriers be bought with Arx?
No, Fleet Carriers will not be purchasable with Arx.

Can we customise our Carriers?
Yes, Fleet Carriers can be customised, but this is something we are going to be looking at in livestreams closer to the Decembers Update's launch.

Can Squadron members contribute to the cost?
The cost for a Fleet Carrier will come from the single commander who owns the carrier. Squadron members will not be able to contribute.

Is the Fleet Carrier restricted to the 'Bubble'?
Fleet Carriers can be purchased from certain systems and can travel outside of 'Human Space', providing they have the fuel to do so.

Where can I buy Fleet Carriers?
Fleet Carriers are purchased from certain systems, which we will look further into during our 'deeper dive' livestream.

Do Fleet Carriers work in Solo?
Fleet Carriers will work and operate in all game modes, so Open, Solo, and Private Groups.

Are Fleet Carriers destructible, and can they defend themselves?
Fleet Carriers are not destructible, but they can defend themselves and other nearby ships.

Do the loadouts have a practical effect in-game?
We will be delving deeper into loadouts, and Support Vessels in later livestreams.

Can you sell Fleet Carriers?
Fleet Carriers can be scrapped, however, it will be for fewer credits than the original purchase amount.

Will a commanders Fleet Carriers persist when logging in and out?
Fleet Carriers are persistent and will remain in the game regardless of whether or not the owner is online.

Can you change the type of carrier you have?
The 'type' of Fleet Carrier that you have is determined by the Support Vessel assigned to it, which in turn, determines its loadout. As mentioned above, this is something we will be talking about in a future stream.

Can Fleet Carriers jump into permit-locked systems?
No, Fleet Carriers will not be able to jump into permit-locked systems.


We hope this gives you an initial insight into Fleet Carriers. Do keep in mind that Fleet Carriers will be released in the December Update, and we will be showing off more about them in livestreams and forum posts closer to its launch. Thank you all for your feedback and questions, and we can't wait to reveal more as time goes on.

And that does cover a lot of questions. It also sounds very much like a page out of No Man’s Sky. NMS Freighters and their Support ships are a fantastic feature, so I’m quite curious about Elite Carrier Support ships.

For those who don’t know, NMS Freighters are massive storage craft, with hangers (3 bays, 3 ships each bay, yes, they can all be yours), capable of extreme long range jumps. Their support ships can be sent on independent NPC-operated missions, can become damaged or even destroyed while away, and provide some additional benefits when they’re around (some will break formation and fire on hostiles attacking you). Overall it’s a great system there.

If some of this is at least familiar here, then I suspect we’ll have our own unique and great system here too. Now to wait out the next stream and come up with more questions...

I suspect the first two answers will be:
“Only one.” And “No.”
To the questions “How many support ships can a Carrier have at a time?” And “Can Support ships be sent on NPC-Controller Missions?” But we’ll have to wait and see.