What to do about Griefers

[Morbad]

And the chances of that exact circumstance happening is?

Over the course of how long I've played...probably pretty damn high, since Stigbob, steenpass, and I all seem to play at the same times at least some of the time.

Anyway, the chance should be zero. steenpass evidently doesn't have any issues with their CMDR encountering mine, and I don't have any problem with my CMDR encountering any other, so why the hell should Stigbob's block have any chance of interfering with either of our games?

 

[Stigbob]

You don't recall correctly.

My CMDR wasn't at Colonia years ago. His first and only trip there was around the beginning of this year, as a detour from DW2, and he did not stay long.

Additionally, my CMDR has only ever destroyed a single CMDR (not player) in the vicinity of Colonia, and that was because said CMDR was trying to pirate him.

You might be having an extremely distorted recollection of my CMDR's much earlier foray into commerce raiding, which was wholly in character, done in an attempt achieve BGS related goals and raise awareness of an exploit (back when they were relevant), but that was well before Colonia existed.

There's certainly a chance of that hence me using "IIRC". Its not like I keep notes on it since its not a big deal.

 

[Morbad]

There's certainly a chance of that hence me using "IIRC". Its not like I keep notes on it since its not a big deal.

If you've blocked my CMDR when you've also posted....

I exclusively use it to dispose of cheats and ramming griefers, since they offer nothing I want in my game.

...then you're either a liar and a hypocrite, or phenomenally sloppy with the block feature, making it that much more likely that you're negatively interfering with other's games.

Such reckless abuse of the feature would be one of the few things, aside from out-of-character threats or harassment, that I'd think would clearly fit the definition of 'griefing'.

 

[Voracity_T]

Its a good day to murder hobo.

 

[Stigbob]

If you've blocked my CMDR when you've also posted....

...then you're either a liar and a hypocrite, or phenomenally sloppy with the block feature, making it that much more likely that you're negatively interfering with other's games.

Such reckless abuse of the feature would be one of the few things, aside from out-of-character threats or harassment, that I'd think would clearly fit the definition of 'griefing'.

Lol, its not harassment or a threat to block someone. Although block can be effectively used to counter that.

Did you get caught out with the 5-1 exploit ?, I bagged quite a few people for that.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The more blocks the more instances the lesser the chances to meet a particular person. That is all there is to it.

So, the more people that are blocked for being gankers/griefers, the less people they see?

Sounds like working as intended.

I'm pretty sure most people won't block people without reason, with some exceptions of course.

Oh, wouldn't it be an absoloute tragedy if gankers only got to see other gankers! Won't someone please think of the gankers!?

As long as its only the odd person blocking them, say for example, those who just don't want to see PvPers at all and block them all, then it shouldn't make a big difference.

 

[galahad2069]

NO! Join GARD, we will train you to appreciate their value to the game, and engage them in honorable combat. o7

LOL, I think I've seen the incident the OP was complaining about in a video.
The evil™ psychopath® ganker in question was most probably a well known pvper whose name I cannot type here but in all likelihood there must be some exotic fruit in it.
He's literally one of the very best pilots in this game, so good luck with that training.

 

[Brrokk]

Some extreme views of whether blocking affects others' instancing or not above. I suspect that it does have a small effect, but I doubt that in practice it would be possible to measure any difference.

I'm afraid this doesn't stop me using "block". I don't want to affect others' game, but my primary focus is my game. I use the main menu features to get the game experience I want. I think any minor effects which occur are the price we all pay for ED not having an Open-PvE mode. I'm not willing to retreat entirely to PG/Solo because I don't see why the mode with the most social possibilities should belong to antisocial people.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Tough. You'll just have to learn to put up with me excluding anyone I regard as unworthy. That's just how people interact in and out of games.

You haven't demonstrated anything to be wrong.



That's not how it works. If I use block it changes my instancing and nobody else's because as you said it doesn't create a new instance just for me it just plonks me into a different one to the blocked player.

Meet up with Morbad and settle it. What do you have to lose?

 

[Morbad]

Lol, its not harassment or a threat to block someone.

I didn't say it was, just that it was tantamount to those things.

All of them (blocking included) are out-of-character actions with zero in-game context, and blocking in particular has the most potential for collateral damage.

The rationale for blocking to affect instancing is that one should have some ability to control their experience (how this makes sense in Open is beyond me, but it is what it is) in order to prevent disruptive players from interfering with one's game...but blocking itself can easily be just as disruptive, and not only to those who are blocked. Using it in a cavalier manner seems quite contrary to it's intent and more than a little hypocritical. If you have the right to be free from playstyles you don't agree with, others should have the right to be free from fallout from your blocks.

Did you get caught out with the 5-1 exploit ?, I bagged quite a few people for that.

I'm insulted that you'd think I'd take advantage of such a thing.

I've never board fliped, won't relog except to resolve technical difficulties, won't visit persistent sites multiple times in short order (my CMDR has been to Dav's Hope twice and the crashed Anaconda once, ever) and I've always been publicly critical of the existence of these and other context defying mechanisms and exploits. I barely even use third party tooIs. I document and report bugs and exploits as I find them, in the earnest hope they are fixed as rapidly and completely as possible. More than anything I want a game that is as consistent and coherent as possible, which is precisely why the block functionality is anathema.

I try not to judge other's play styles too harshly, except in the case of explicit cheats, but I absolutely hold myself to a higher standard than what I can simply get away with. Whenever possible, I play the game as I wish it were (which is both in accordance with the rules and vastly more strict in many areas). Some compromises (namely Engineering, in a wholly legitimate manner) have to be made to avoid handicapping my CMDR too much, but I very much practice what I preach.

 

[Stigbob]

Meet up with Morbad and settle it. What do you have to lose?

I think I'm right based on Sandro's explanation of block, if I'm wrong the chances of the circumstances arising where it actually becomes a noticeable issue for anyone are miniscule.

Even then it wouldn't be an issue for me as it would be happening in a separate instance to mine which isn't something I've ever worried about.

So I don't really see any point to it.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I think I'm right based on Sandro's explanation of block, if I'm wrong the chances of the circumstances arising where it actually becomes a noticeable issue for anyone are miniscule.

Even then it wouldn't be an issue for me as it would be happening in a separate instance to mine which isn't something I've ever worried about.

So I don't really see any point to it.

If you're wrong you're OK with spreading misinformation simply because you perceive the impact to be "minuscule?" That doesn't seem right to me.

If I know Morbad it wouldn't take much effort to confirm your position.

 

[Stigbob]

I didn't say it was, just that it was tantamount to those things.

All of them (blocking included) are out-of-character actions with zero in-game context, and blocking in particular has the most potential for collateral damage.

The rationale for blocking to affect instancing is that one should have some ability to control their experience (how this makes sense in Open is beyond me, but it is what it is) in order to prevent disruptive players from interfering with one's game...but blocking itself can easily be just as disruptive, and not only to those who are blocked. Using it in a cavalier manner seems quite contrary to it's intent and more than a little hypocritical. If you have the right to be free from playstyles you don't agree with, others should have the right to be free from fallout from your blocks.

Its a video game people don't have any 'rights'.

I'm insulted that you'd think I'd take advantage of such a thing.

I've never board fliped, won't relog except to resolve technical difficulties, won't visit persistent sites multiple times in short order (my CMDR has been to Dav's Hope twice and the crashed Anaconda once, ever) and I've always been publicly critical of the existence of these and other context defying mechanisms and exploits. I barely even use third party tooIs. I document and report bugs and exploits as I find them, in the earnest hope they are fixed as rapidly and completely as possible. More than anything I want a game that is as consistent and coherent as possible, which is precisely why the block functionality is anathema.

I try not to judge other's play styles too harshly, except in the case of explicit cheats, but I absolutely hold myself to a higher standard than what I can simply get away with. Whenever possible, I play the game as I wish it were (which is both in accordance with the rules and vastly more strict in many areas). Some compromises (namely Engineering, in a wholly legitimate manner) have to be made to avoid handicapping my CMDR too much, but I very much practice what I preach.

I'm sure I had a good reason at the time, probably.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Its a video game people don't have any 'rights'.

Then why do you champion blocking like you do? You've got no right to do it.

I'm sure I had a good reason at the time, probably.

Sounds like the block feature is just your personal "I win" button. You're certainly welcome to do that, but don't be surprised if other players don't respect your opinion because of it.

 

[Stigbob]

If you're wrong you're OK with spreading misinformation simply because you perceive the impact to be "minuscule?" That doesn't seem right to me.

If I know Morbad it wouldn't take much effort to confirm your position.

I'm not spreading misinformation.

I'm repeating what one of the blokes who made it said and saying I'm not upset enough about the video game mechanic (either way) to bother testing it any more than I already have. Which was pretty extensive but was focussed more on ditching undesirables from my game than Morbads edge case theoretical issue.

Since ditching undesirables is the main function of block I'm absolutely fine with it theoretically temporarily inconveniencing someone else in a way they wouldn't notice unless we all discussed it live via discord or whatever whilst arranging the experiment.

If you have to jump through hoops to demonstrate there's an issue, its not really an issue.

 

[Morbad]

So, the more people that are blocked for being gankers/griefers, the less people they see?

The less people everyone sees, because it's another filter for already dubious instancing. More blocks equals a higher number of less densely populated instances. This is a problem for Open.

I'm pretty sure most people won't block people without reason, with some exceptions of course.

Just reading over this thread would suggest that this is wishful thinking.

Plenty of people seem quite eager to block and to distribute comprehensive lists of people to block...without ever questioning the reasons for their inclusion.

Stigbob claims to have my CMDR blocked for something my CMDR has absolutely never done.

I think I'm right based on Sandro's explanation of block

You should read that explanation again, or just test it yourself.

Nothing I've said contradicts anything Sandro has said.

Even then it wouldn't be an issue for me as it would be happening in a separate instance to mine which isn't something I've ever worried about.

The harm you're causing may be out of sight and thus out of mind from your perspective, but that doesn't imply that it's all happening in a separate instance. Indeed, if someone who wants to interact with my CMDR is in your CMDR's instance, that's very much happening in your instance.

Its a video game people don't have any 'rights'.

You've claimed the right to mess with other's instancing for your own benefit.

I'm sure I had a good reason at the time, probably.

I'm confident you didn't, at least not by any standards you've claimed to apply, or anything close to them.

If I know Morbad it wouldn't take much effort to confirm your position.

If his position is that blocking doesn't impact people that have not been blocked, this can be tested by going to a populated instance, having one party block the other, then having the blocked party reinstance. If the blocked individual isn't blocked from that instance, then the block doesn't work and isn't interfering with anyone else either. If the blocked individual is excluded from that instance, it means that no one else present can interact with said individual, thus depriving all of them and the blocked target of their mutual presence.

I've tested this before and, barring other weights to block, the blocked individual is excluded. If there is another viable active instance, they go there, if not, they get a fresh one, and some people may find themselves in that new instance, and thus soft segregated from the first one.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I'm not spreading misinformation.

I'm repeating what one of the blokes who made it said and saying I'm not upset enough about the video game mechanic (either way) to bother testing it any more than I already have. Which was pretty extensive but was focussed more on ditching undesirables from my game than Morbads edge case theoretical issue.

Since ditching undesirables is the main function of block I'm absolutely fine with it theoretically temporarily inconveniencing someone else in a way they wouldn't notice unless we all discussed it live via discord or whatever whilst arranging the experiment.

If you have to jump through hoops to demonstrate there's an issue, its not really an issue.

Let me review this conversation real quick.

Stigbob: Blocking is fine as it is.

Morbad: Let me show you it's not.

Stigbob: No.

Phisto: Why?

Stigbob: As far as this issue is concerned, I don't care about anyone other than myself.

Hey, like I said, that's fine. But forget you, in that case.

 

[Stigbob]

Then why do you champion blocking like you do? You've got no right to do it.

What does the forum have to do with in game 'rights' or lack thereof ?.

I make people aware of block because its an underused feature and people spread misinformation about it.

Sounds like the block feature is just your personal "I win" button. You're certainly welcome to do that, but don't be surprised if other players don't respect your opinion because of it.

Yes it is my personal "I win" button if the win condition is not tolerating any griefers in my game. That's whole the idea behind it and its working as intended.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yes it is my personal "I win" button if the win condition is not tolerating any griefers in my game. That's whole the idea behind it and its working as intended.

And yet you've implied Morbad is on your list. Hardly a griefer, is he?

You're highlighting the weaknesses of the block list brilliantly.

 

[Stigbob]

Let me review this conversation real quick.

Stigbob: Blocking is fine as it is.

Morbad: Let me show you it's not.

Stigbob: No.

Phisto: Why?

Stigbob: As far as this issue is concerned, I don't care about anyone other than myself.

Hey, like I said, that's fine. But forget you, in that case.

He didnt offer to show me its not fine. He put forward an edge case unlikely set of circumstances under which someone else's instancing might just be altered and wanted to demonstrate that.

Why don't you and Morbad team up with labcoats on and test it out for yourselves.

You can upload a video of yourselves doing it at which point I'll tell you I'm still not bothered.