[Video] Open letter from community to Elite Dangerous

[-VR- Max Factor]

Words to the effect of "some people are going to be left out"

That was not the words. I suggest you go back and re-watch the stream. Nobody is left out.

 

[sollisb]

Amazing how many "devs" there are.

Apparently 100 + working on E.D

 

[Stigbob]

Well it's interesting you decide to personally attack people because of their chosen playstyle, says more about you then them... anyway back to my point - whether you like it or not is irrelevant. I'm trying to demonstrate why the idea of 'You don't have to grind in Elite to have fun' is a load of nonsense. It only applies if the things you enjoy are not gated by grind.

Also: https://inara.cz/cmdr/14271/ I'd be interested to know how you got all those ships, especially the Vette and Cutter without grinding?

You accumulate a lot of credits in a game you've played since 2014 without grind, you also git-gud and never pay rebuys.

You can also get military rank by taking the rep option in any mission for the relevant superpower. After a while you find you've hit the top whilst doing other stuff. They are both maxed out now just by playing the BGS.

Mat gathering is the same, scoop as you go bins always full.

 

[Burke]

That was not the words. I suggest you go back and re-watch the stream. Nobody is left out.

Respectfully max im not even going to engage with this. Slowly pointing out why i dont agree with what you just said would be painful and will slowly fill this thread with nonsense

 

[Ian Skippy]

And you have a really selective memory of a troll. Nothing he said in that statement was false.

Obviously what happened was they just couldn't justify any further non bugfixing iteration on the feature, whether they were bursting inside to do it or not. You're forgetting 2 important facts:

• During beta, even people dramatically supporting of the fss were making suggestions to improve it that 1) were incredibly common sense to the feature (showing the spectrum in the hud eg) but frontier did nothing.
• By about 100 pages, all sides had got the point across. What came out from that was there's absolutely no in game lore that would prevent reinstalling of an option to target bodies before have been discovered. For hundreds of pages, the only counter argument the whole white knight cap had was max factors claims of inability to imagine things if choice that he didn't have to use was allowed for other people. That was it. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with adding choice, so how could you deny the request?

You need to stop being willfully malicious and spreading absolute lies. Thankyou.

Lol, are you for real? Burke claims FD 'ignored the wailing'. They objectively, factually and demonstrably didn't. They responded, multiple times, by explaining their reasoning. That is what I am pointing out. You are arguing that FD should have made a different choice, should have implemented proposals and what not. That has nothing to do with what I said, at all.

Hmm, only got dark rum and vodka apparantly. Not sure how this'll work out...

 

[sollisb]

I thought that upgrade was fab. Deep core mining, the Mamba IIRC and of course the FSS which makes exploration so much more fun, whilst making missions and mat grabbing easier and more interactive.

It was a triumph.

In your opinion.

 

[Lateralus]

You accumulate a lot of credits in a game you've played since 2014 without grind, you also git-gud and never pay rebuys.

Haha ..try PvPing from scratch without ever getting a rebuy.

You can also get military rank by taking the rep option in any mission for the relevant superpower. After a while you find you've hit the top whilst doing other stuff. They are both maxed out now just by playing the BGS.

Uh huh.

Mat gathering is the same, scoop as you go bin always full.

Un huh.

Great advice.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Lol, are you for real? Burke claims FD 'ignored the wailing'. They objectively, factually and demonstrably didn't. They responded, multiple times, by explaining their reasoning. That is what I am pointing out. You are arguing that FD should have made a different choice, should have implemented proposals and what not. That has nothing to do with what I said, at all.

Hmm, only got dark rum and vodka apparantly. Not sure how this'll work out...

Sorry i was hoping we'd all notice the fss again

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'll give you a scenario: You have a new account and want to get into competitive PvP, so you will need:

• A PvP capable ship (FDL, Chieftain, Mamba, FAS etc)
• Have a second ship capable of doing all the milk runs and mining that is required to earn credits & unlock engineers, i.e a decent multipurpose ship
• Lots of credits, you'll need to be able to afford to A rate your PvP ship as well as LOTS of rebuys for it (probably want at least 300 million cr minimum)
• You need to Engineer, this means you will also need
  • Discover & unlock each of the primary engineers (power, thrusters, distributor, weapons, shields, armour, utitilies, sensors, interdictors)
    • This usually involves acquiring something annoying like rare goods which are quantity capped, or items which are only available as mission rewards such as Modular Terminals
    • Can also involve other activities such as mining, bounty hunting, exploration or simply flying far enough away from your start system (torture for those who do not enjoy exploration)
  • Lots of assorted materials of varying type (and a high quantity of each, at least 40 per mat really)
  • Getting allied with some key factions where key engineers are gated behind system permits (Sirius, Alioth, Sol, Shinrarta Dezhra, Achenar )
    • You will need to run missions for those factions, bounty hunt or trade large amounts of cargo with their controlled stations
  • You will need to grade 5 each engineer... until you do that you spend many more materials per upgrade on each level
  • Move your PvP ship modules around the bubble which can be a chore, especially for things like armour which you cannot put on another ship with higher jump range.
• You will need to move your PvP ship & modules around the bubble to be in close proximity to the weekly (when their were CGs) player hot-spots

Trying to do all that in a realistic time frame without grinding is impossible, if you didn't you'd lose interest in PvP before you ever got to do any... And I didn't even include navy ranks, powerplay modules or guardian/broker tech.

True. But isn't it really obvious by now that ED is a terrible game to chose if you are primarily interested in PvP? It takes forever to get to where you can join, the meta is completely unbalanced, TTK is near-infinite, cheating is super easy, its imposisble to die unless you really want to et cetera. Honestly I'd think something like Infinity Battlescape is likely going to be a far better space pvp game than elite will ever be. :/

 

[Ezren]

Well it's interesting you decide to personally attack people because of their chosen playstyle, says more about you then them... anyway back to my point - whether you like it or not is irrelevant. I'm trying to demonstrate why the idea of 'You don't have to grind in Elite to have fun' is a load of nonsense. It only applies if the things you enjoy are not gated by grind.

Also: https://inara.cz/cmdr/14271/ I'd be interested to know how you got all those ships, especially the Vette and Cutter without grinding?

Your example is of somebody who chooses to not have fun because they decided to play the game in a way that is not fun for them.

You may as well go to a restaurant, order crab, and then complain that you have a shellfish allergy. People who complain about grinding but insist on grinding are ridiculous.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sorry i was hoping we'd all notice the fss again

100+ page thread. Started reading, got bored, skipped to the end of the thread and the first post I read is about the FSS. Just when it was becoming a distant troubling memory for me.

Boy George said it best when he wondered whether people were trying to hurt him and make him cry.

 

[Stigbob]

Haha ..try PvPing from scratch without ever getting a rebuy.

Uh huh.

Un huh.

Great advice.

Just becaseu you need to grind doesn't mean I have to, you need to git-gud.

Rebuy is always optional if you know what you are doing.

 

[Burke]

People who complain about grinding but insist on grinding are ridiculous.

Whatever they want is gated behind the grind? Seriously... they gave the FSS cause people couldnt be bothered to travel. So why not remove the grinds? same thing at this point.

 

[Lateralus]

True. But isn't it really obvious by now that ED is a terrible game to chose if you are primarily interested in PvP? It takes forever to get to where you can join, the meta is completely unbalanced, TTK is near-infinite, cheating is super easy, its imposisble to die unless you really want to et cetera. Honestly I'd think something like Infinity Battlescape is likely going to be a far better space pvp game than elite will ever be. :/

If the answer is 'don't be a PvP'er in Elite' then argument that grind isn't necessary is invalid. Also Elite has been pretty much the only fully released open world multiplayer space sim on the market for much of it's liftetime.

Other options are emerging, but they are so alpha that it will be a while before PvPers move away to other games (although there has been a large shift to Star Citizen recently, despite its early state and flaws).

 

[Siobhan]

I'll give you a scenario: You have a new account and want to get into competitive PvP, so you will need:

• A PvP capable ship (FDL, Chieftain, Mamba, FAS etc)
• Have a second ship capable of doing all the milk runs and mining that is required to earn credits & unlock engineers, i.e a decent multipurpose ship
• Lots of credits, you'll need to be able to afford to A rate your PvP ship as well as LOTS of rebuys for it (probably want at least 300 million cr minimum)
• You need to Engineer, this means you will also need
  • Discover & unlock each of the primary engineers (power, thrusters, distributor, weapons, shields, armour, utitilies, sensors, interdictors)
    • This usually involves acquiring something annoying like rare goods which are quantity capped, or items which are only available as mission rewards such as Modular Terminals
    • Can also involve other activities such as mining, bounty hunting, exploration or simply flying far enough away from your start system (torture for those who do not enjoy exploration)
  • Lots of assorted materials of varying type (and a high quantity of each, at least 40 per mat really)
  • Getting allied with some key factions where key engineers are gated behind system permits (Sirius, Alioth, Sol, Shinrarta Dezhra, Achenar )
    • You will need to run missions for those factions, bounty hunt or trade large amounts of cargo with their controlled stations
  • You will need to grade 5 each engineer... until you do that you spend many more materials per upgrade on each level
  • Move your PvP ship modules around the bubble which can be a chore, especially for things like armour which you cannot put on another ship with higher jump range.
• You will need to move your PvP ship & modules around the bubble to be in close proximity to the weekly (when their were CGs) player hot-spots

Trying to do all that in a realistic time frame without grinding is impossible, if you didn't you'd lose interest in PvP before you ever got to do any... And I didn't even include navy ranks, powerplay modules or guardian/broker tech.

Or you could just like... join a CQC league.

 

[Ezren]

Haha ..try PvPing from scratch without ever getting a rebuy.

CQC is literally this.

 

[Lateralus]

Or you could just like... join a CQC league.

I have, it was fun for about two weeks.

Also I've submitted a proposal about how Fdev can make PvP more accessible via the CQC module... Shame its pretty much abandonware at this point though.

 

[Stigbob]

If the answer is 'don't be a PvP'er in Elite' then argument that grind isn't necessary is invalid. Also Elite has been pretty much the only fully released open world multiplayer space sim on the market for much of it's liftetime.

Other options are emerging, but they are so alpha that it will be a while before PvPers move away to other games (although there has been a large shift to Star Citizen recently, despite its early state and flaws).

I actually do do PVP in ED, just not the chest beating personal organ waving rubbish some are really into. Never needed to grind to do it, just go looking.

Star Citizen ? isn't that the sequel to duke nukem forever.

 

[Siobhan]

I have, it was fun for about two weeks.

Great! That's two weeks of fun you had doing competitive PVP... plenty of time to form an opinion of the game. After thousands of hours, one might draw the conclusion that there was something that kept you coming back... Obviously, the sheer terribleness of the game wasn't enough to dissuade you.

 

[Viajero]

Odd, I don't see any incompatibility.
If the Game due to various factors goes off the rails, the Players can only observe and comment that condition.

Except it is not a generalised actual game condition. Just a personal and anecdotal perception.

As interesting as a personal and anecdotal perception is it does not make much sense to refer to that condition as the actual current generalised game state.

Or if you do and claim that then you would actually need to show it with actual verifiable data such as concurrency levels, sales figures or financial results etc.