The ADS

[Burke]

If you want some good reads, then in my opinion, the 11 pages there were much more constructive and informative than the 119 (and counting) here.
Oh, and I don't think anyone has changed their minds to have a better opinion of the FSS the longer they played with it since. At least, I never heard that in private, nor read such in public.

People in that thread seem like they are saying pretty much same thing we say in here except they were allowed to moan unharrassed so not many pages

Its certainly a gold mine of anti FSS quotes in there. Some real good ones.

As i have always pointed out, the design of the FSS makes the pain increase the more you use it. I can only imagine how explorers hearts must sink upon landing in a new system "ahhhh no....." Opening the FSS one more time.

Edit: I have just been looking back over the two threads posted by marx. Its not scientific by any means and not posting on the forum is not proof of leaving the game, but based on the last seen dates of posters i think the FSS made alot of people leave. Some went instantly others gave it a few months.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

As i have always pointed out, the design of the FSS makes the pain increase the more you use it. I can only imagine how explorers hearts must sink upon landing in a new system "ahhhh no....." Opening the FSS one more time.

As I have always pointed out, the design of the ADS makes the pain increase the more you use it. I can only imagine how explores hearts must sink upon landing in a new system.

What would it take to convince you of the opposite point of view? That your beloved ADS was absolutely garbage and the worst thing in Elite since it first discussed over tea?

You don't have to tell me how much you loved it - you've convinced me of that 4 locked threads ago.

But you can't seem to wrap your head around someone else might have hated it. I hated it. I completing Frelling Hated it. I refused to engage in Exploration because I could not stand it. It was nothing but endless, tedious, boring, doing of nothing but watching reruns of X-Files on Netflix to make a 5,000 Light Year trip. Sure, I scanned the unexplored systems along my way out using the ONLY method available, and each jump I prayed to all Elder Gods that the system I was about to jump into contained nothing but a star. It took me weeks, 13 weeks, as a matter of fact, to make the trip out. It took me 6 hours to make the trip because I refused to scan anything because I FRELLING HATED IT, it sucked so hard it could absorb Sagittarius A*. There was absolutely nothing I despised more. I'd rather PvP than Explore, and I'd rather bite your toenails that PvP.

And you simply cannot comprehend that anyone could hate the ADS/Fly-point-and-wait placeholder excuse for what you called "exploration" even more than you hate the FSS, but it IS possible, and I am the proof of it. And I am NOT alone.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

People in that thread seem like they are saying pretty much same thing we say in here except they were allowed to moan unharrassed so not many pages

Its certainly a gold mine of anti FSS quotes in there. Some real good ones.

Yeah, it's people giving their opinions without feeling the need to shout down anyone else's. Shame FDev decided to reject the feedback.

 

[Burke]

As I have always pointed out,

I keep saying have both.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Yeah, it's people giving their opinions without feeling the need to shout down anyone else's. Shame FDev decided to reject the feedback.

What if they have taken a very careful count of all the opinions expressed and had those counts verified by a 3rd party and found that Pro-FSS opinions outnumber Pro-ADS opinions by a margin of 16 to 1? They're not obliged to disclose this to anyone. They don't even have to tell anyone they are aware that opinions exist. They did. They also made their position known. They gave a response. It wasn't the one you wanted, so therefore, they've rejected the feedback?

Not giving in to a minority isn't bad thing. In fact, it's a great thing. It enables other, even better things, like Progress.

I urge you to read my reply to Burke a couple posts above, and consider what I had to say there as well - that it's both possible and entirely realistic that someone, like myself, could hate the ADS exponentially more than you hate the FSS.

But you had your was from Initial Launch until 3.3 to play your way. Let those of us who are disgusted by your way play our way for just as long. It's called "sharing".

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I keep saying have both.

I keep saying "don't waste programming time" and do the important things first.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

What if they have taken a very careful count of all the opinions expressed and had those counts verified by a 3rd party and found that Pro-FSS opinions outnumber Pro-ADS opinions by a margin of 16 to 1? They're not obliged to disclose this to anyone. They don't even have to tell anyone they are aware that opinions exist. They did. They also made their position known. They gave a response. It wasn't the one you wanted, so therefore, they've rejected the feedback?

Not giving in to a minority isn't bad thing. In fact, it's a great thing. It enables other, even better things, like Progress.

I urge you to read my reply to Burke a couple posts above, and consider what I had to say there as well - that it's both possible and entirely realistic that someone, like myself, could hate the ADS exponentially more than you hate the FSS.

But you had your was from Initial Launch until 3.3 to play your way. Let those of us who are disgusted by your way play our way for just as long. It's called "sharing".

It's not about Pro-FSS v Pro-ADS, it's about choice. But you already know this.

If your only argument against having both is 'development time' then it would seem sensible for those of us who want choices to continue asking FDev to allocate resources to implement them. Perhaps you'll be lucky and they'll come at the expense of a change that would ruin the game for you.

Edit:
Maybe we can get the ADS back instead of yet more 'Press {key} to activate' messages littering the UI?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

It's not about Pro-FSS v Pro-ADS, it's about choice. But you already know this.

If your only argument against having both is 'development time' then it would seem sensible for those of us who want choices to continue asking FDev to allocate resources to implement them. Perhaps you'll be lucky and they'll come at the expense of a change that would ruin the game for you.

Edit:
Maybe we can get the ADS back instead of yet more 'Press {key} to activate' messages littering the UI?

It's not my only argument against it, and you know that. We've had this discussion like what, 9? 10 times? As for choices... the problem with giving people choices is that sometimes they make the wrong ones. Sometimes they can't make one at all.

Let me offer this:

Back when, Microsoft designed and released what remains their Crowning Glory of Operating Systems - Windows 2000 Professional. They will not release a better Operating System between now and the day Microsoft is forgotten. If I had the choice, I'd still be running it.

XP was garbage, and looked like it was a joint venture between Microsoft and Fisher-Price, and could have been called "My First Operating System".
Vista was so bad even Microsoft killed it early.
Windows 7 was better than XP, but too hand-holdy, too designed to enable people who shouldn't touch computers to pretend to use computers.
Windows 10 is upgraded version of 7, with even more hand-holding, and built-in advertising.

None of these are half as good as Windows 2000 was.

But... enter another bit of software, one that, at the time, was the source of about half to 2/3 of my annual income: AutoDesk's 3d Studio Max.

Well, it so happened that, at a point in time, their current version simply would not install in Windows 2000, leaving me no choice. My choice was taken away - I had to upgrade (downgrade? degrade?) my operating system, or give up modeling, animating and post-processing, and find another venture from which to derive income.

And add to that that Microsoft stopped updating Windows 2000, meaning any issues found would not be fixed, any exploits or security issues would not be patched.

Two companies took my choices and made them for me.

I lived.

I assure you, you too will live without a choice of imaginary space scanners.

And if this isn't enough, I will rehash one of my other reasons to oppose:

We do not know what else Frontier has planned for future additions or enhancements. They may well have a plan, slated to begin development in 2022 that will take an entire year to complete, that may necessitate changes to the scanning systems that will give you back the functionality you want so badly, but not because you've wanted it, or badgered the Community about it, who can do NOTHING about Frontier's decisions, and who grow so wearing of hearing the same rhetoric again and again that they start to oppose you out of spite, but because it fits their designs, plans, and intentions for their game.

Yet you resist every effort to encourage simple patience with every fiber of your being, because, dear Veruca, you simply want it now.

And when you don't get your way, we get 120 pages of bickering over opinions.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

As I have always pointed out, the design of the ADS makes the pain increase the more you use it. I can only imagine how explores hearts must sink upon landing in a new system.

What would it take to convince you of the opposite point of view? That your beloved ADS was absolutely garbage and the worst thing in Elite since it first discussed over tea?

You don't have to tell me how much you loved it - you've convinced me of that 4 locked threads ago.

But you can't seem to wrap your head around someone else might have hated it. I hated it. I completing Frelling Hated it. I refused to engage in Exploration because I could not stand it. It was nothing but endless, tedious, boring, doing of nothing but watching reruns of X-Files on Netflix to make a 5,000 Light Year trip. Sure, I scanned the unexplored systems along my way out using the ONLY method available, and each jump I prayed to all Elder Gods that the system I was about to jump into contained nothing but a star. It took me weeks, 13 weeks, as a matter of fact, to make the trip out. It took me 6 hours to make the trip because I refused to scan anything because I FRELLING HATED IT, it sucked so hard it could absorb Sagittarius A*. There was absolutely nothing I despised more. I'd rather PvP than Explore, and I'd rather bite your toenails that PvP.

And you simply cannot comprehend that anyone could hate the ADS/Fly-point-and-wait placeholder excuse for what you called "exploration" even more than you hate the FSS, but it IS possible, and I am the proof of it. And I am NOT alone.

Completely irrelevant post.

From what I've seen, nobody here is asking for the FSS to be removed, and nobody here is asking you to use the ADS, even if it were to be reinstated. So why post about how much you hate the ADS. It doesn't affect you.

Whereas posts complaining about the FSS are, if fact, very relevant, since the alternative has been removed. Those people have lost out. You have lost nothing and do not stand to lose anything even if they have their way.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Completely irrelevant post.

From what I've seen, nobody here is asking for the FSS to be removed, and nobody here is asking you to use the ADS, even if it were to be reinstated. So why post about how much you hate the ADS. It doesn't affect you.

Whereas posts complaining about the FSS are, if fact, very relevant, since the alternative has been removed. Those people have lost out. You have lost nothing and do not stand to lose anything even if they have their way.

Oh, but I do stand to lose something if they have their way - the pleasure I get from knowing there is yet another form of misery in the world. I lose out on their suffering.
I could lose out on First Discovered and First Mapped tags if these people suddenly take to Exploring again.
I could also lose time I could be playing a New Feature, that had to be delayed to add back a system the designers themselves said they did not want.
I could lose out on having bug fixed because programmers were diverted from fixing a bug to creating a useless system to shut up a half dozen irrelevant players.

How's that work for you?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Oh, but I do stand to lose something if they have their way - the pleasure I get from knowing there is yet another form of misery in the world. I lose out on their suffering.
I could lose out on First Discovered and First Mapped tags if these people suddenly take to Exploring again.
I could also lose time I could be playing a New Feature, that had to be delayed to add back a system the designers themselves said they did not want.
I could lose out on having bug fixed because programmers were diverted from fixing a bug to creating a useless system to shut up a half dozen irrelevant players.

How's that work for you?

I actually believe youre being serious.

What a fine basis we’ve been up against from the start.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I actually believe youre being serious.

What a fine basis we’ve been up against from the start.

Isn't it though? At least 3 of those things are serious, and affect more than just me.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Oh, but I do stand to lose something if they have their way - the pleasure I get from knowing there is yet another form of misery in the world. I lose out on their suffering.
I could lose out on First Discovered and First Mapped tags if these people suddenly take to Exploring again.
I could also lose time I could be playing a New Feature, that had to be delayed to add back a system the designers themselves said they did not want.
I could lose out on having bug fixed because programmers were diverted from fixing a bug to creating a useless system to shut up a half dozen irrelevant players.

How's that work for you?

Which confirms my earlier summary of the mean spiritedness of many in the anti-ADS crowd. Confirmed straight from the horses mouth in this case.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Oh, but I do stand to lose something if they have their way - the pleasure I get from knowing there is yet another form of misery in the world. I lose out on their suffering.
I could lose out on First Discovered and First Mapped tags if these people suddenly take to Exploring again.
I could also lose time I could be playing a New Feature, that had to be delayed to add back a system the designers themselves said they did not want.
I could lose out on having bug fixed because programmers were diverted from fixing a bug to creating a useless system to shut up a half dozen irrelevant players.

How's that work for you?

1° The whole point of the game is to attract more players, if you want a tag then be diligent and get there fast. This is just being selfish.
2° Reintroducing the ADS shouldn't take long given its previous existence.
3° This is a global problem that affects literally anything they implement, regardless, that's FD's fault if anything.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

1° The whole point of the game is to attract more players, if you want a tag then be diligent and get there fast. This is just being selfish.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

2° Reintroducing the ADS shouldn't take long given its previous existence.

Easy to say by someone who has never programmed for the Cobra Engine.

3° This is a global problem that affects literally anything they implement, regardless, that's FD's fault if anything.

And how does FD correct something that is their fault? By diverting resources to do a thing they've clearly stated they don't want to do? Now who's being selfish?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Which confirms my earlier summary of the mean spiritedness of many in the anti-ADS crowd. Confirmed straight from the horses mouth in this case.

At least this horse can admit to being mean-spirited, while the other end of the same horse can't even admit to being the other end of the same horse.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

For FD at least.

Easy to say by someone who has never programmed for the Cobra Engine.

Once more, it's a global issue but reintroducing an object you already coded is presumable easier than creating one from the ground up, another perhaps simpler yet not satisfactory option is to implement the ADS functionality in the FSS.

And how does FD correct something that is their fault? By diverting resources to do a thing they've clearly stated they don't want to do? Now who's being selfish?

Reverting what they did? Why do you ask questions with rather trivial answers?
Asking for something that was already there is as selfish as asking a waitress to return your dinner.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Reverting what they did? Why do you ask questions with rather trivial answers?
Asking for something that was already there is as selfish as asking a waitress to return your dinner.

When there's nothing actually wrong with your dinner sure can be. Just because you didn't know or ask or bother to find out what Steak Tartare was before you ordered it, or only read as far as "Steak" isn't the waitress's fault, now is it? I wonder now if you're that person who made the 9-1-1 call because the McDonalds was out of chicken nuggets.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

When there's nothing actually wrong with your dinner sure can be.

So if I order a plate and I'm eating it and out of nowhere the waitress gets the plate out even though there's nothing wrong with it before finishing it, asking for it is selfish? Well now I know why FD are how they are, they are held to pathetically low bars.

 

[brap_man]

Hey folks,

every once in a while when I scroll through the threads I stumble aross folks who wish for the old ADS to come back. And evenytime I think to myself: "Isn't the exact same mechanic still there?". Seriously: whenever I enter a new system the first thing I do is honking. And when I'm close enough to a body it will automatically be scanned by my ship. I don't have to keep my nose pointed at the body and I don't have to selct it, okay. That's different from the old system. But again: the old mechanic is nevertheless basically still there, right? I can honk, look at the system map for interesting planets and fly over to scan them from nearby.

So why do some folks want the ADS back so much when it's still there? I honestly don't get it.

I've not seen these calls for the old ADS, but my guess is it's people complaining about honking in a never before discovered system and not being able to see the planets in the system map. I used to use that method to check for ELWs WW and AWs without it slowing down my buckyballin to Colonia. I'm happy with it taking longer to check if there is actually a valuable planet in the system now though myself