Hey Cmdr! Why don't you have a cool paint job?

[CMDR Serra]

Ad hominem? You aren't in some logical argument.

You wanted to say something for attention, but you didn't want to have to read.

I see no reason to discuss this any further. I still stand by my statement. You are free to disagree.

If you reply to me directly in this thread, please simply refer to this post.

 

[Ezren]

I see no reason to discuss this any further. I still stand by my statement. You are free to disagree.

If you reply to me directly in this thread, please simply refer to this post.

TLDR

 

[Julio Montega]

Sadly aesthetics are not tied to what you do in elite,
as an example, you don't have to pirate to buy a pirate paintjob.
You however gain ARX when you do these activities, but then ARX per week is capped,
as you earn them playing in your style.
That cap is a mechanic to further interest in buying ARX to get the items you want now.
I don't like that cap, if it was removed that'd be a good step, even another incentive to play
more for some.
People who spend money on aesthetics to support the game are gonna do that anyway,
the rest would benefit from the option to earn aesthetics by just playing, without an artificial limit.

 

[Eliza]

Sadly aesthetics are not tied to what you do in elite,
as an example, you don't have to pirate to buy a pirate paintjob.
You however gain ARX when you do these activities, but then ARX per week is capped,
as you earn them playing in your style.
That cap is a mechanic to further interest in buying ARX to get the items you want now.
I don't like that cap, if it was removed that'd be a good step, even another incentive to play
more for some.
People who spend money on aesthetics to support the game are gonna do that anyway,
the rest would benefit from the option to earn aesthetics by just playing, without an artificial limit.

I fear if the cap is removed, some players will play as long as it takes to get the desired amount, regardless of physical/mental/social health.
Therefore I support capping the amount of arx.
(Speaking out of own experiences in my friendship-circle) (gameing addiction)

 

[Julio Montega]

I fear if the cap is removed, some players will play as long as it takes to get the desired amount, regardless of physical/mental/social health.
Therefore I support capping the amount of arx.
(Speaking out of own experiences in my friendship-circle) (gameing addiction)

That is absolutely one of the effects of removing the cap.
But honestly elite is no free to play, so applying a cap
is gating towards spending money, which in the industry is
a common sickness and can be seen to make gullible people invest a lot of money.
I never have been a friend of Frontier asking extra money for a paintjob,
when i already payed for the full product.
Also you have to buy the paintjobs for every single ship model separately,
which adds to the list even further, although there exist a lot of basic paints
for every ship model.

I wonder if you guys see paints now as "content", as you can earn them ingame,
with the introduction of ARX. So what about LEP?

 

[Eliza]

That is absolutely one of the effects of removing the cap.
But honestly elite is no free to play, so applying a cap
is gating towards spending money, which in the industry is
a common sickness and can be seen to make gullible people invest a lot of money.
I never have been a friend of Frontier asking extra money for a paintjob,
when i already payed for the full product.
Also you have to buy the paintjobs for every single ship model separately,
which adds to the list even further, although there exist a lot of basic paints
for every ship model.

I wonder if you guys see paints now as "content", as you can earn them ingame,
with the introduction of ARX. So what about LEP?

Okay...once again...

We paid ONCE for the game, most of the playerbase via steam-sales or similar.

To make it short: Please state an alternative to the current system how FDev will be able to pay the developers, coders, designers, Rental and maintaining servertime, Office Rental, Systemadmins and many many more?

 

[Julio Montega]

Okay...once again...

We paid ONCE for the game, most of the playerbase via steam-sales or similar.

To make it short: Please state an alternative to the current system how FDev will be able to pay the developers, coders, designers, Rental and maintaining servertime, Office Rental, Systemadmins and many many more?

Paid expansions, as planned?
(Obviously LEPs have complete access)
It is their business model to govern, but that does not
forbid criticizm and they hopefully knew what they did,
when they created the LEP.

 

[Eliza]

Paid expansions, as planned?
(Obviously LEPs have complete access)
It is their business model to govern, but that does not
forbid criticizm and they hopefully knew what they did,
when they created the LEP.

They EXACTLY know what they are doing. Otherwise Braben wouldnt be a millionaire and no SANE investor wouldnt pour money into FDev.
You WILL get your paid DLC in 2020. Take that for granted.
With a staff of ca. 100 developers you cannot spill out a 50 Bucks dlc every 3 months. Unless you REALLY want to mine salt about messy DLCs we THEN paid for (remember...Beyond was for free).
Otherwise okay monthly subscription fee or p2w lootboxes. Are THESE business-model you want for Elite? Well then go buy "That other space game"

 

[Julio Montega]

They EXACTLY know what they are doing. Otherwise Braben wouldnt be a millionaire and no SANE investor wouldnt pour money into FDev.
You WILL get your paid DLC in 2020. Take that for granted.
With a staff of ca. 100 developers you cannot spill out a 50 Bucks dlc every 3 months. Unless you REALLY want to mine salt about messy DLCs we THEN paid for (remember...Beyond was for free).
Otherwise okay monthly subscription fee or p2w lootboxes. Are THESE business-model you want for Elite? Well then go buy "That other space game"

Listen, i don't share your fears of Elite switching to a subscription or resort to lootboxing,
even if they removed the ARX cap and designated DLCs as their source of income.
Frontier has more games than elite, which create revenue by MTC.
And i doubt we both have the insight of FDs internal workings regarding their revenue,
although i have the strong feeling that ressources on Elite have been reduced from year to
year, due to things like licensed games (Dino stuff).
That is to say regardless of PR telling that there are 100 developers working,
'cuz it is PR, of course they are gonna put a golden paintjob on the goo.

But what i can say, is that there is a difference between having microtransactions in the form
of having the old store page, where you directly see how expensive an item is to obtain,
and obscuring the cost, hidden behind an ingame currency.
The new ARX store puts the "optional cosmetic content" directly in your face,
a business practice to incentivize spending more money on it,
so does the "free fix" of ARX you get from playing.

Now correct me if i'm wrong here, but Elite is family friendly,
and these business practices aim at children, who cannot fathom
that "pretend" ingame currency costs real money.
It is a shady way of conducting business, while it also is good,
to be able to finally get the cosmetics for just playing.

But i truly wonder, if cosmetics, now achievable ingame,
do count as content.

 

[Eliza]

Listen, i don't share your fears of Elite switching to a subscription or resort to lootboxing,
even if they removed the ARX cap and designated DLCs as their source of income.
Frontier has more games than elite, which create revenue by MTC.
And i doubt we both have the insight of FDs internal workings regarding their revenue,
although i have the strong feeling that ressources on Elite have been reduced from year to
year, due to things like licensed games (Dino stuff).

But what i can say, is that there is a difference between having microtransactions in the form
of having the old store page, where you directly see how expensive an item is to obtain,
and obscuring the cost, hidden behind an ingame currency.
The new ARX store puts the "optional cosmetic content" directly in your face,
a business practice to incentivize spending more money on it,
so does the "free fix" of ARX you get from playing.

Now correct me if i'm wrong here, but Elite is family friendly,
and these business practices aim at children, who cannot fathom
that "pretend" ingame currency costs real money.
It is a shady way of conducting business, while it also is good,
to be able to finally get the cosmetics for just playing.

But i truly wonder, if cosmetics, now achievable ingame,
do count as content.

I really don't fear that Elite will be subscription based. Oh hell no!!!

We both HAVE an insight of the revenue...FDev is forced by UK-Law to publish their revenue.

Your FEELINGS about FDev's passion regarding Elite, interests me...well...less than a little, to stay polite. If FDev pulled all the staff to JWE, I wonder where the carriers and the next DLC is coming from.

And now to Arx..."obscured currency"??? Really??? tell you what. in the EU the ONLY LEGAL currency is the EURO...not British Pounds, Russian Rubles or US Dollars. You will get the exact amount of cups of coffee here, if you want to pay those in US Dollars or Monopoly-Money. ZERO!
"And NO! We don't accept debit or credit-cards. Didn't you read the sign at the door? CASH ONLY!"

And yes...FDev is a family-friendly company, but that doesn't mean that FDev is responsible for the lack of education of the child or the lack of parental care.
The only persons who WILL be responsible for an unresponsible behavior of a child are the parents.

 

[Julio Montega]

I really don't fear that Elite will be subscription based. Oh hell no!!!

That is good, so we cleared that up.

We both HAVE an insight of the revenue...FDev is forced by UK-Law to publish their revenue.

So you can see publicly how many internal ARX ED brings in?
I doubt that, official documents relate to the company as whole, not the department.

Your FEELINGS about FDev's passion regarding Elite, interests me...well...less than a little, to stay polite. If FDev pulled all the staff to JWE, I wonder where the carriers and the next DLC is coming from.

Carriers are at least a year late, mate. Remember?

And now to Arx..."obscured currency"??? Really??? tell you what. in the EU the ONLY LEGAL currency is the EURO...not British Pounds, Russian Rubles or US Dollars. You will get the exact amount of cups of coffee here, if you want to pay those in US Dollars or Monopoly-Money. ZERO!
"And NO! We don't accept debit or credit-cards. Didn't you read the sign at the door? CASH ONLY!"

And yes...FDev is a family-friendly company, but that doesn't mean that FDev is responsible for the lack of education of the child or the lack of parental care.
The only persons who WILL be responsible for an unresponsible behavior of a child are the parents.

If you present a product and add a fantasy price tag, that is obscuring the real cost.
As easy as that is.
The education is of course in the hands of the parents, but the morality and ethical part of the decision to
apply a hotly discussed shop-system like that is in FD's hands.
The psychological effects of these systems are well tested, hence they are applied.
Business wise that is a smart move to increase the sales, but i as a person do
not think like a business, i run on morals and ethics, a luxury it seems.

 

[Eliza]

That is good, so we cleared that up.


So you can see publicly how many internal ARX ED brings in?
I doubt that, official documents relate to the company as whole, not the department.

Well not regarding FDev, but regarding to the intercontinantel company I'm working for. They deal with worldwide currencies but the revenue is shown in Euro. It simply doesn't interest tax-department if they made there benfit form dollars or pounds (obscured currencies).

Carriers are at least a year late, mate. Remember?

Sure, but why? Maybe they cannot afford earlier releases, because people are more willingly to whine about "the curelty" of FDevs business-descisions than to buy even more cosmetics, in whatever currency?

Maybe they want to be (relativly) safe to get things right THIS TIME?

Maybe they discovered sever problems within the spaghetti-code they call Elite-Dangerous that they are simply unable to implement those carriers?

but maybe...MAYBE...they are just ROFL about all the whining on the forums that they where incapeable to write just one line of code.

If you present a product and add a fantasy price tag, that is obscuring the real cost.
As easy as that is.
The education is of course in the hands of the parents, but the morality and ethical part of the decision to
apply a hotly discussed shop-system like that is in FD's hands.

Once again...for me a US-Dollar price-tag is just the same "fantasy" price-tag. MY currency is the Euro.

And now...to be honest...I'm really getting bored of you and decide to do something more funny. I'll hop into my cockpit and earning my FREE "fantasy-currency".

 

[Julio Montega]

And now...to be honest...I'm really getting bored of you and decide to do something more funny. I'll hop into my cockpit and earning my FREE "fantasy-currency".

Just do me a favor.
Play the game, and give feedback if you look the shop up more often,
now that ARX are in.

 

[Eliza]

Sure, why not...

Feedback:

FD: No more online store to check new stuff = no sales

So that ingame stuff with arx is all good and well.... But I don't play a lot (uninstalled the game for a while) but check in regularly if any skins come out for my favorite ship. Now that the store is no more, I can not see if any new skins come out. I would need to login in, start it up, go...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Stigbob]

I fear if the cap is removed, some players will play as long as it takes to get the desired amount, regardless of physical/mental/social health.
Therefore I support capping the amount of arx.
(Speaking out of own experiences in my friendship-circle) (gameing addiction)

Sad but true.

 

[Ezren]

That is good, so we cleared that up.


So you can see publicly how many internal ARX ED brings in?
I doubt that, official documents relate to the company as whole, not the department.



Carriers are at least a year late, mate. Remember?



If you present a product and add a fantasy price tag, that is obscuring the real cost.
As easy as that is.
The education is of course in the hands of the parents, but the morality and ethical part of the decision to
apply a hotly discussed shop-system like that is in FD's hands.
The psychological effects of these systems are well tested, hence they are applied.
Business wise that is a smart move to increase the sales, but i as a person do
not think like a business, i run on morals and ethics, a luxury it seems.

You can't call being selfish "morals and ethics", it's you wanting to get more things for nothing. You aren't taking a moral stance. You are taking a selfish stance.

 

[Julio Montega]

You can't call being selfish "morals and ethics", it's you wanting to get more things for nothing. You aren't taking a moral stance. You are taking a selfish stance.

It is a shame you have that impression.
I merely wish the times back, when we got a full price title with all content and maybe got 1-3 Expansions.
Glorious times when nothing was locked behind shops and such,
times without techniques commonly used, that lull the user into spending more money.
These times are only dead, if we let them die.

To me those gating mechanics are a symptom of the greed and unrealistic growth goals in the industry,
it'll unload sooner or later. And i personally am totally opposed to them,
i was opposed to the original store aswell.

 

[ThePriestSeto]

At least I have a great enough grasp of the language to not say something like "In your case that may not be the case" and would use a word like "situation" or "circumstances" and not repeat "case" twice.

Stay in school.

Meh .. you consider this a comeback? Pathetic that you make the same lame joke twice. I guess you should try to work on your sense of humor. oh wait that impossible.

Conversely, you just saying you can't doesn't mean anything. Except I provide rationale to support my statement and you do your best with what you have, I suppose.

You have a rationale? I went through all your posts and found nothing even close to that. I assume you spend some fortune on skins and you come here on forums trying bash every one who has a complaint because of buyer's remorse lol

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the concept of cosmetics.

Oh there is a theory of cosmetics now? I guess you came up with it in your "imaginary school".

"Subjective opinion" is redundant. Also my statement was not opinion-based, but objective: "At no point during gameplay does somebody need to pay additional money to continue to play."

That's not an opinion. That's a factual statement. Do you not know the difference between the two?

What you say = factual statements? keep dreaming .. I guess you have a false sense of self .. aka inflated ego. What you say is does not even come close to an educated opinion. You started gaming with Fortnite? Games have always had everything included on disc except with the crazy monetisation that greedy companies have been incorporating in the last few years and DOES NOT MAKE IT NORMAL. Here in caps so that you could see, but I doubt that you would.

Keep this sentence in mind as you immediately proceed to do that.

I, however, made a distinction between the two.


Are you making a point?

Because in whatever direction you're going, I got Horizons for PC on sale, and I've already gotten free skins through ARX so theoretically I could get every skin in the game for the cost of Horizons because I paid $0 for it.

Nice try, but the market is not built around you and I do not simply care for your experience. It is a simple as opening the store, choosing a skin, checking the price in real currency and comparing it to advertised price of an expansion. Base game = 60 dollars ... a pack of Arx to buy few skins = the same .. in what universe are the same equal in value? (rhetorical question) How does providing something for free after several weeks of playing the game justify its over the top price?

Oh boy.

Maybe if your argument wasn't so terrible I wouldn't have to point out the many, many issues with it. I know it would be easier for you if I didn't come along and point out how what you're saying is wrong.

I argue with people who have opinions and points that are pretty well thought-out, and I can respect their position even if I don't particularly agree with it, because they make a reasonable argument and state their case in a way that is rational.

You, however, have none of those things, and hold your precious opinion before any reasoned discussion. It's all about what you want.

It's not like if it wasn't for me, everyone would look at your post and hoist you upon their shoulders, and parade you through the streets as the one, unifying voice of the community. Plenty of others can see the glaring problems with your comparisons and complaints. Other people have made some arguments against microtransactions and ARX, but they were more capable of forming a coherent statement and formulating rationale in support of their opinion.

Whoa calm down .. Here's 10 Arx for you if you choose the correct answer:

• You feel that you have to justify your purchase and thus proceed to attack anybody condemning predatory microtransactions.
• You try to shadow voices of criticism so that it'd appear that the community is divided and Fdev should keep the status quo. (will not dive into your motivations)
• You are one of the white knights who rush to the keyboard and defend the game no matter what.
• All of the above.

If someone comes and voice their opinion on the forum, I would not dedicate a lot of my time (unlike you who seem to have plenty of and will probably dedicate few hours of your time writing an essay replying to this with more lame jokes) quoting them as simply I gain nothing from that other than wasting my time. On the contrary you (please refer to the aforementioned MCQ and insert the right answer). Not to mention that all you say is nonsense and has no foundations.

Incorrect.

Nope, it is correct. You have proven my point as I can easily counter what you say by merely choosing an opposite word. The likes of you have driven people who play the game away from the forums. Just go and check any ED related video on youtube, you'd see a completely different image.

 

[ThePriestSeto]

Oops. I'm afraid I am going to have to call you out on your pitiful attempt at an education-related insult.

Your first sentence is woefully lacking in appropriate punctuation and clumsily repetitive with your use of 'since' and 'at least'. Here:

Actually, that was better - at least you said I went to school.

Your second sentence is even worse. Again, no punctuation and you seem to be confused on the difference between 'maybe' and 'may be'. Here:

1. In your case, that may not be the case.
or
2. In your case, maybe that is not the case.

While at least these are grammatically correct, they still sound a bit rubbish with the repetition of 'case' in such a short sentence.

So perhaps brush up on your grammar, punctuation, verb tenses, and expand your vocabulary a bit before tossing out education-based insults?

@OP's title... I do have a cool ship kit! Well, actually, I have a few. My most recent acquisition... came free, with the Base Game & DLC after a few short weeks of simply playing. Yay!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but:
1- It is really stupid to judge someone's education based on a missed comma or a full stop on an internet forum. I will not waste my time reviewing my post as this is not a scientific paper.
2- Under no circumstances that I would take any language advice from you, so keep your advice to yourself.
3- Aside from not really caring, I am not a native speaker and honestly do not really care if some random forum members would give me an award for writing the most grammatically correct post.
4- Someone who doesn't really bother to write a comma can not throw a joke about education? lol What a laughable logic! I will not go into personal details about one's pool of spoken languages or even their knowledge of science. I guess you get what I am talking about here. Education /= writing a grammatically correct English language post with punctuation on a video-game forum.

 

[Ezren]

Meh .. you consider this was a comeback? Pathetic that you make the same lame joke twice. I guess you should try to work on your sense of humor. oh wait that impossible.

It wasn't a joke as much as it was desperately-needed advice for you to heed.

You have a rationale? I went through all your posts and found nothing even close to that. I assume you spend some fortune on skins and you come here on forums trying bash every one who has a complaint because of buyer's remorse lol

Firstly, you not finding rationale is not really a shock. You would need to be able to understand it to identify it and I would hate to overestimate you like that.

Secondly, you can assume whatever you want, it doesn't really affect anything. If you need to make up stories in your head to comfort you, you're going to.

Oh there is a theory of cosmetics now? I guess you came up with it in your "imaginary school".

Let's just chalk this up to you not knowing what the word "concept" means.

Also, are you implying that schools aren't real?

What you say = factual statements? keep dreaming .. I guess you have a false sense of self .. aka inflated ego. What you say is does not even come close to an educated opinion.

Oh boy there's a lot to unpack here.

I'll repeat myself, because apparently that's necessary: my statement was objective. It was definitively a fact. As in, adhering to the definition of "fact".

/fakt/
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

1. a thing that is known or proved to be true.

You started gaming with Fortnite? Games have always had everything included on disc

Already let's tap the brakes again so I can educate you in a very basic thing that is wrong with a thing you said:

DLC has existed since around 2005. Live services existed before that.

There I kept that pretty simple for you.

except with the crazy monetisation that greedy companies have been incorporating in the last few years and DOES NOT MAKE IT NORMAL.

Yes, those greedy companies, trying to make money of the thing they made! What are they, a business?

Here in caps so that you could see, but I doubt that you would.

You doubt that I would see it? Did you turn to the side and put another point on your whiteboard labeled "awesome internet burns I did" with that one?

Nice try, but the market is not built around you and I do not simply care for your experience.

Yeah, as long as you didn't explicitly compare the two in the context of my experience, let's check the tapes.

You can simply compare prices even .. see how much you paid for horizons and how many skins you get for that money.

whatever direction you're going, I got Horizons for PC on sale, and I've already gotten free skins through ARX so theoretically I could get every skin in the game for the cost of Horizons because I paid $0 for it.

Nice try, but the market is not built around you and I do not simply care for your experience.

Oof. Well, you would do well to understand the context you yourself create. For the future, I mean.

It is a simple as opening the store, choosing a skin, checking the price in real currency and comparing it to advertised price of an expansion. Base game = 60 dollars ... a pack of Arx to buy few skins = the same

If you spend $60 dollars on ARX, you get 100,000 ARX. With that much you could get 30 of the most expensive paint jobs in the game, or 166 of the cheapest paint jobs in the game.

A "few skins", what a ridiculous argument. Could you not even do a little math in your head before making such an absurd claim?

.. in what universe are the same equal in value? (rhetorical question)

"Are the same equal in value". I'm sure that's supposed to mean something. Oh, it was rhetorical. I mean, it's your terrible example using the numbers that you made up and didn't really add context for and kind of works against your point.

But they you say this:

How does providing something for free after several weeks of playing the game justify its over the top price?

Is "free" an "over the top" price?

Whoa calm down .. Here's 10 Arx for you if you choose the correct answer:

• You feel that you have to justify your purchase and thus proceed to attack anybody condemning predatory microtransactions.
• You try to shadow voices of criticism so that it'd appear that the community is divided and Fdev should keep the status quo. (will not dive into your motivations)
• You are one the white knights who rush to the keyboard and defend the game no matter what.
• All of the above.

So is this what you resort to when you can't make an argument? Nothing there does anything to argue against the things I've said on the topic. You're trying to muddy my "motivations" because you can't really address the things I've said.

What's my motivation, again? To... not get skins for myself, in the game I play?

If someone comes and voice their opinion on the forum, I would not dedicate a lot of my time (unlike you who seem to have plenty of and will probably dedicate few hours of your time writing an essay replying to this with more lame jokes) quoting them as simply I gain nothing from that other than wasting my time.

Are you sure?

On the contrary you (please refer to the aforementioned MCQ and insert the right answer). Not to mention that all you say is nonsense and has no foundations.

Incorrect. I have explained otherwise. A failure in your understanding is not a failure in communication, but in comprehension.

Nope, it is correct. You have proven my point as I can easily counter what you say by merely choosing an opposite word. The likes you have driven people who play the game from the forums. Just go and check any ED related video on youtube, you'd see a completely different image.

You just saying something contrary to what I say does nothing and means nothing. You're just filling space with noise.

You have failed to address the points I have made, and just verbally flail ineffectually in my general direction. And sure, it's a good way for me to eat up time while I'm in Supercruise, but all you're doing on this topic is derailing it in an infantile effort to "get" me.

You want to pretend that you're being forced to pay money for additional, optional items that you can literally get by playing the game. You have utterly failed to rationalize anything to the effect of why you should get more for nothing, but you insist on demanding that you are entitled to things beyond your purchases.

You continue to complain about "greedy companies" but the problem is you. You're the greedy one, wanting something for nothing. These "greedy companies" are exchanging cosmetics they've created for either money or in-game rewarded currency. You want cosmetics for nothing, and despite the fact that you can literally get them for free by playing the game, you are so greedy that literally getting something for nothing is not good enough for you.