ANNOUNCEMENT Community Update (22/10)

[Woundstring]

Most game developers are capable of both adding content, changes and also fixing bugs aren’t they?

The public tag line of it all being a “hard decision” seems like trying to sell it in a different light...perhaps?
Somethings been off for at least 2+ years in elite.
The 2020 carrot (it’s going to be a let down, isn’t it?) will likely slip and possibly be the delayed ice planets.
If it’s spacelegs, pve co-op and done well, I’ll be amazed, to say the least.
Sorry for complaints.

 

[dubsdj]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really bad announcement?

I'm just concerned about not having any new content for at least 6 months, that's a long time and Fleet carriers will only be for the super rich so that pushes new content further down the line. I don't think I can find much else to do in the game as it currently is.
Perhaps some cosmetic improvements along with the bug fixes might keep me going for "another year". When I say cosmetic improvements I mean things like:
new station interiors, new voices, extra animations in the game for example people visible in stations.. stuff like that, nothing that would be game breaking.

 

[CaptnPicard2305]

I've been ill over the past few weeks and unable to play ED. But that time away from my PC confirmed that I really wouldn't miss playing Elite at all. When my health returns I think I'll spend my time supporting Hello Games space sim. I may return to ED sometime in the future but only when almost all the bugs have been fixed and the fleet carriers and space legs are firmly in place. Until then the constant grind, bugs and often disappointments of over 3000 hours supporting FD has took its toll.

 

[Havvk]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really bad announcement?

I'm just concerned about not having any new content for at least 6 months, that's a long time and Fleet carriers will only be for the super rich so that pushes new content further down the line. I don't think I can find much else to do in the game as it currently is.
Perhaps some cosmetic improvements along with the bug fixes might keep me going for "another year". When I say cosmetic improvements I mean things like:
new station interiors, new voices, extra animations in the game for example people visible in stations.. stuff like that, nothing that would be game breaking.

How bout those ice planets?

 

[SpongeJim]

A lot of people are projecting some kind of emotional reasoning as to why FDev made this decision. That is, of course, absurd, because FDev is not a person, it is not even a collection of people; it is a corporation and its sole reason to exist is to make money. Period. Whatever dimensions or factors involved in their decision, it all comes down to the bottom line, guaranteed.

Now that that's settled, we can debate on what the dimensions and factors could be that led to their decision.

The forums? Nah, they couldn't care less about the forums, because forum activity does not correlate at all with the bottom line.

What does correlate to the bottom line?

Well, as a matter of reporting and capital procurement, it all comes down to active players. Active players = potential revenue. So, since it's fair to say the September update must have had some kind of influence on this decision, it's also fair to say that it may have cost a statistically significant drop in active players or an unexpectedly low increase in (even temporary) active players. Actual public numbers could back this up, but those are unreliable either way IMO (and don't speak to whatever statistics FDev are actually using, to whatever granularity). I can at least say for myself that this is the first update where I didn't at least fire the game up and fly around a bit - I just looked at how the Arx works and left. Considering the September update was clearly meant to attract new players (with the new tutorial/intro system) as well as encourage existing players to play more (to earn Arx) I am going to go out on a limb and assume it did little of either.

I only have the game on PC so I don't pay much attention to how the game operates on the consoles, but I'm going to assume the update was as bad for them as for those of us on PC. This adds another dimension because if a game is buggy enough the game publisher/developer can start getting pressure from the console maker to shape up (this used to be hard-and-fast, especially with Sony). We will never know if that was the case here, but it's certainly possible.

How about the question of delaying FC's? Wouldn't having them in for Christmas help the bottom line? This is where the technical side may well play a part, and the reality of the delay may well have been known long, long ago. It also may speak to the reality of how much the "die-hards" play, and how much they may have increased their play in anticipation of having to spend billions on an FC. From what I gather the bugs in the September Update made it much more difficult to mine-grind, so that probably is an ugly graph to present to the shareholders if they had a spike before the update, and the update killed it.

The weirdest/funniest thing about all this is that FDev continues to maintain that the 2020 year-end update is still fully on track. How the hell is that possible if the bug fixes will push back FC's? IMO there are only a handful of possibilities:

1. The 2020 update is, in fact, still on track and FDev will fix a ton of bugs: To me this implies that 2020 update will be massively underwhelming, because an update of any significance cannot possibly be unaffected by the changes that will come in the code base (physically and temporally).
2. The 2020 update is on track, and FDev will fix a whole lot less bugs than they're letting on: This is quite possible and wouldn't surprise me one bit.
3. The 2020 update is already delayed, they're just not saying so: IMO, the most likely scenario.
4. The 2020 update is on track, the bugs are going to be fixed pretty quickly (but released on delay), but the aforementioned spike enjoyed after the "FC Billions Grind Rush" is going to be milked for a few more months. This is also quite possible, and would be in keeping with how FDev operates.

It's also funny that the only thing they use to entice us as to the potential of the 2020 update is that it is going to cost money - implying that we will want to pay for it. No enticing us with potential game play, not even teasing. I'll leave that aside until they do actually tell us something about it, but it's funny to see the "paid" aspect mentioned every time it's brought up (by them).

At the end of the day I'm not overly surprised by any of this, I mean I have been around since release so it really is in keeping with FDev's M.O. I am interested to see what the 2020 update actually is, but I'm not holding my breath over it.

 

[Diagbar]

"by the end of 2020 " really makes it easy to push it over into 2021.

In fact, as long as the sale of paints and body kits makes a profit, FDev has no reason to release this mythical “new era” of theirs, they will definitely transfer it to 2021, and there it is likely to 2022 and beyond. Especially in case of uncomfortable questions, I can always cover up with the words "we did this exclusively to improve the quality", all companies say so, even bethesda and bioware, in recent projects which have no hint of any quality.
In addition, usually companies announce games and DLCs at least 12-15 months before the release.
From FDev at the moment there is nothing about the “new era” which “hints softly” that they themselves do not know what things are worth adding there (maybe they are discussing this), which means that active development has not even begun.

 

[Soron Silin]

1. The 2020 update is, in fact, still on track and FDev will fix a ton of bugs: To me this implies that 2020 update will be massively underwhelming, because an update of any significance cannot possibly be unaffected by the changes that will come in the code base (physically and temporally).
2. The 2020 update is on track, and FDev will fix a whole lot less bugs than they're letting on: This is quite possible and wouldn't surprise me one bit.
3. The 2020 update is already delayed, they're just not saying so: IMO, the most likely scenario.
4. The 2020 update is on track, the bugs are going to be fixed pretty quickly (but released on delay), but the aforementioned spike enjoyed after the "FC Billions Grind Rush" is going to be milked for a few more months. This is also quite possible, and would be in keeping with how FDev operates.

It's also funny that the only thing they use to entice us as to the potential of the 2020 update is that it is going to cost money - implying that we will want to pay for it. No enticing us with potential game play, not even teasing. I'll leave that aside until they do actually tell us something about it, but it's funny to see the "paid" aspect mentioned every time it's brought up (by them).

There is a different, bigger team working on 2020. So far as we know they have never been pulled off that work, even for a couple of weeks following the September fiasco. The bug fixes in Patch 2 could easily be the work of 20 developers and the same developers will be doing the bug fixes going forward and the Fleet Carriers. The larger team will keep working on the 2020 release throughout. So none of this upheaval affects 2020. The bugs will be fixed and tested in both branches of the code -- that's standard practice -- without the 2020 developers needing to lift a finger. The 2020 DLC will have two years of solid development with no distractions.

Don't you think that if they are going to make us pay for the 2020 update, it has to be something we will think worth paying for? It has to be something at around the level of Horizons.

 

[rp198419]

Honestly, I would welcome the merge. Take the best of both and make a super game

So would I...as long as it is still in VR.

 

[Diagbar]

bigger team working on 2020

Is there any evidence of this?
So FDev said?
Oh ... Well, according to their words, then before the release of Carriers, there are only 4-6 weeks left, and they certainly do not move the deadlines. Or stop, hey, it still happened.
And if this happened, more than once, how can their words be believed?

 

[Soron Silin]

From FDev at the moment there is nothing about the “new era” which “hints softly” that they themselves do not know what things are worth adding there (maybe they are discussing this), which means that active development has not even begun.

I don't believe Frontier lie to us; they might not tell us any or all of the truth, they might be themselves deluded, and they might make difficult decisions which go back on previous statements, but I don't believe they purposefully lie.

Which means that the New Era has been in production for a long time already with the majority of 100 developers working on it. So that's at least 51 people.

It seems odd that they haven't even hinted what may be in it. I can think of two reasons.

1. It isn't anything we expect. So not atmospheric planets or space legs.
2. It is highly diverse and they are not sure what works at the moment.

So they might have atmospheric planets penciled in but, as it stands at the moment -- only half-way through -- they have most of the basic work in but they still don't have end-to-end completion on any of it. Until they get there, they can't decide what works and what doesn't. Rivers might look great in the mock-up but they might slow the engine to a halt in the real game. Flora and Fauna might seem good enough now, but once you've been to 100 planets, they all look the same. The re-entry sequence might just look a bit meh. The procedural cities (yeah, I don't think so either) might look like Minecraft if you're in VR. In order to fix that they will have to make some parts more complex and cut other parts. So until they make that decision, they can't commit to releasing any of it.

 

[Diagbar]

I don't believe Frontier lie to us; they might not tell us any or all of the truth, they might be themselves deluded, and they might make difficult decisions which go back on previous statements, but I don't believe they purposefully lie.

Oh, well, if FDev does not lie to us, then in a month in December 2019, I will fly my fleet Carrier, that's great

 

[Diagbar]

Which means that the New Era has been in production for a long time already with the majority of 100 developers working on it. So that's at least 51 people.

And after so much time they can’t even tell what to expect from their new era?
Are you really so naive?

 

[Enderby]

Is it only me that see the development since release as a scattershot approach? Seemingly devoid of any over-arching direction?

The spacey-ness (layman's term) of ED is second to none. Second to none, I say!

But, what they've done with it. How they've developed it... Does no one else worry? Does no one see this masterpiece as being tainted by what has come since?

Planetery landing were cool! Were very cool. But, then they weren't that cool once you'd landed twice. Ooh, there's a cliff! Screenshot! There's a valley! Sceenshot!
There's another valley. No screenshot. That hills boring actually.

Now I try to avoid any missions that have planet bases as their destination. Why? Because it's boring and takes ages! Nice added content.

They made this great, superlative, wonderful space game and, I can't help but think, that they didn't know what they would do with it after they flogged it.

For me ED has been an exercise in patience. It's gotta get better, right? They'll introduce the 'game' bit next, right?

I like playing ED but I still enjoy doing the same stuff I did when it first came out. And, after a while, that gets a bit dull.

Is this game held up by a core crew of nerds that love bland but yet amazing spacery? Is that enough?

No. It should not be enough for something as amazing as this galaxy that FD have created. It's frickin amazing!

But, I see no vision. No plan. No, direction. Just boring, vapid - mainly fighting - orientated fluff.

400 billion systems? FD should have done 1 million systems and made it a game.

It feels like Brabens vanity project and they are now scrabbling around (when work on other titles allows them) trying to mend this into an actual game.

I love ED, I really do. Despite my occaisional slightly negative tone. But I cannot help but feel that it's been wasted and abused by crappy development ("If you use this feature we'll develop it" - what?) with no over-all 'idea'. If there is there is one and I'm wrong you'll have to point it out to me.

Think of how wonderful ED is - and then think of how developed (or non-developed).

Snatchin defeat from the jaws of victory is the one saying that I think captures a little of what I feel has happened to ED.

New era? Shouldn't need no new era. NOW should have been the era.

(I have had some wine).

 

[Havvk]

Is it only me that see the development since release as a scattershot approach? Seemingly devoid of any over-arching direction?

The spacey-ness (layman's term) of ED is second to none. Second to none, I say!

But, what they've done with it. How they've developed it... Does no one else worry? Does no one see this masterpiece as being tainted by what has come since?

Planetery landing were cool! Were very cool. But, then they weren't that cool once you'd landed twice. Ooh, there's a cliff! Screenshot! There's a valley! Sceenshot!
There's another valley. No screenshot. That hills boring actually.

Now I try to avoid any missions that have planet bases as their destination. Why? Because it's boring and takes ages! Nice added content.

They made this great, superlative, wonderful space game and, I can't help but think, that they didn't know what they would do with it after they flogged it.

For me ED has been an exercise in patience. It's gotta get better, right? They'll introduce the 'game' bit next, right?

I like playing ED but I still enjoy doing the same stuff I did when it first came out. And, after a while, that gets a bit dull.

Is this game is held up by a core crew of nerds that love bland but yet amazing spacery? Is that enough?

No. It should not be enough for something as amazing as this galaxy that FD have created. It's frickin amazing!

But, I see no vision. No plan. No, direction. Just boring, vapid - mainly fighting - orientated fluff.

400 billion systems? FD should have done 1 million systems and made it a game.

It feels like Brabens vanity project and they are now scrabbling around (when work on other titles allows them) trying to mend this into an actual game.

I love ED, I really do. Despite my occaisional slightly negative tone. But I cannot help but feel that it's been wasted and abused by crappy development ("If you use this feature we'll develop it" - what?) with no over-all 'idea'. If there is there is one and I'm wrong you'll have to point it out to me.

Think of how wonderful ED is - and then think of how developed (or non-developed).

Snatchin defeat from the jaws of victory is the one saying that I think captures a little of what I feel has happened to ED.

New era? Shouldn't need no new era. NOW should have been then era.

(I have had some wine).

 

[Enderby]

You like it yeah?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Nobody knows at this point what the story is. You may well be right. But my guess is a little different.

I think they asked the question "If we release carriers in December, will we have as many bugs as in September?" and nobody could deny it. Maybe they wouldn't be spread all over the game, but there would be bugs. And then they read the forums with everyone saying what they want to do with carriers and none of it will be possible, because carriers are just mobile space stations with most of the interesting stuff chopped out. And there were interesting edge cases discussed which they hadn't thought of.

So their situation was, they could push for a December release, maybe chopping QA back as hard as they dared and developing right up to the line, just like games companies traditionally do. But the outcry over bugs would be massive and everyone would be disappointed with carriers.

So then they had to decide how to make the Carriers release work for Frontier. And the answer was, give the developers another couple of months, give QA enough time to do a good job, and fix all the weak code in the rest of the game that might break when they get added in.

Yes definitely. To a rational studio that is the concept of needing more time to complete the feature. Apparently that is not the motive for frontier however, they chose to delay the feature because the community said something about bugs, please see the OP.

 

[Kubicide]

AAHhahhaha…! Nice announcement. This was just so... predictable. Priceless.

M.A.I.N.T.E.N.A.N.C.E M.O.D.E. continues now into June 2020 and Beyond. < see what I did there...

 

[Enderby]

It's been awful. If we're honest. cqc, engineers (balancing issues), multi-crap, the foul surface scannerer.

Why, why do we keep hoping? Is there hope? What is it about us? Are we weird?

Do you think there is hope? On a scale of 1 to 2, with 1 being "no hope" and 2 being "lots of hope", what do YOU think?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

It's just a speculation but one that I find quite possible: Carriers as nothing but a cheap placebo to keep the community quiet until end of 2020. A little bit playing with our fantasy and expectations and there we go. Maybe it meanwhile dawned to them that we are not quite that daft. If they only would have come up with the truth, which what I guess is what we have now (the urgent need for serious bug fixing), I certainly wouldn't have complained.

It’s not that bad. I mean they lied and blamed us for missing their schedule... and actually even considered that a possible course of action.. but I don’t think they are pretending.

 

[Enderby]

No of course they are not pretending to be rather rubbishy!
They don't mean to f it up.
They try hard, they work hard - on the other titles.