Notoriety is just no fun

galahad2069

G
Midian Cabal said:
But they are not different. There is no difference between players and NPC.
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Midian Cabal said:
For NPCs it [the real world] doesn't exist.
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Since the real world undoubtedly does exist for us (players), this is obviously a difference. :)

Not the most important one, I give you that, but still. It's just the consequence of the fact that we players do exist in RL while NPC's obviously don't. The single reason of the (virtual) existence of NPC's is our entertainment, but not the other way round. There is no symmetry here.

I'm a PvPer, so I personally don't really care how long the notoriety cooldown is after NPC "murders", but I can see zero reason why the OP's suggestion would be so bad.
 

RamirezKurita

R
varonica said:
We are the people in the game, you may go ahead and believe you are the only person in the game and therefore what you think must be right, but there are actually other people in the game who don't think the same way as you, so get off your high horse and consider that other peoples opinions have as much relevance
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But I fully admit that I am not the only person in the world of Elite Dangerous. I can log into Solo and encounter dozens, if not hundreds, of people in a single play session. Sure, they might not have some entity from beyond the veil controlling their actions, they might be minimalist and incomplete, but from the point of view of the universe of ED they are still people.

You are the one wanting special treatment in the game, demanding that the people in the galaxy be treated like throwaway mobs rather than equals, not me.
 

[VR] Goooost

[VR] Goooost
Notoriety was a stupid thing to implement without a proper pirate playstyle. As it stands crime doesnt pay, and the added hassle isnt remotely worth any reward.
Anonymous protocols are the biggest mistake. Who decided I wanted to be anonymous over a fine? Bounty I can understand, but it shouldnt just be a flip you switch. Any station should blast anonymous ships to smithereens on sight. To dock you should have to hack the station with a limpet, then you'd have 5 minutes to undock before you're detected and booked. That way you can take missions, especially nefarious high-paying missions you cant get without hacking the station. As such, you'd be able to live as a pirate without being completely blocked from services, and it would pay to do so, and it would be entertaining to do so.
 

galahad2069

G
RamirezKurita said:
You are the one wanting special treatment in the game, demanding that the people in the galaxy be treated like throwaway mobs rather than equals, not me.
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But NPC's are throwaway mobs, easily farmable source of engineering materials, nothing more.

Maybe there's a slight possibility that you'd be among the first to demand special treatment as soon as the first NPC Yamatos and Rinzlers started to interdict you. :)
 

docam

D
Some special forces missions require to kill clean targets - but this fact isn't indicated explicitly in mission briefing prior to accept it.
 

Gavin786

Gavin786
Bionic Bytes said:
Last night I joined a wing mate and helped him with his PVE spec ops missions. Whilst he was on 4/5 notoriety I was still on zero despite killing several 'clean' mission targets. I did think it was odd but my notoriety was still zero when I eventually quit.
Today, upon start up my notoriety was 6 .... presumably needed some time to 'catch up' or what ever.

What is absolutely no fun at all is playing with this level of notoriety just for killing a few NPC ships. I switched on at 10:30 am, and it';s now 5:30pm and still I'm at notoriety level 3. That's 7 hours to drop 3 levels.

Surely, there should be a different kind of notoriety counter for NPC deaths which rest after 10 mins, not an hour per level. It is supposed to be a game after all.
PvP deaths are a different thing and should be treated as such, so no suggestion here to alter this part of the punishment.

/* Rant over */
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Completely Correct. Its not a rant, its totally valid criticism.

The Notoriety and whole C&P system is a totally broken, lazy mess that is just pandering to the whole carebear crowd.

It does nothing to stop ganking, and just punishes gankers by destroying their immersive experience by fielding "ATR" - super OP NPC that have weapons that would shred any Thargoid, yet used only against the common criminal. How can this be justified? Do gankers have no right to quality of play just because they annoy many vocal people on this forum ?

Could have been done so much better. FDev have sophisticated AI as evidenced by all the complaining about powerful NPCs when they were introduced. Could have been great with fair wing fights of well engineered sophisticated AI NPC ships. But no, its done this lazy, immersion-breaking way. Path of least resistance. Just make lasers with reverbrating cascade and super OP power, super tank shields + same basic AI. Jobs a good one, let them try to gank that, 10 minutes the programming is done lets move on. Lazy, dumb, pandering, pretty disgraceful actually.

And just not fair to the ganking/non-consensual PvP community. They deserve quality gameplay also. Blocks that stop them entering instances are bad enough and totally unfair already. That needs be sorted, its just not right that 1 player can negatively affect another's quality of play in that way by preventing them from instancing in by putting a ban on them. It needs to be the banning player who is instanced out. It needs to be sorted.

The whole Notoriety thing just makes people miserable and for no gain whatsoever. PPL who play ganker style are not deterred in any way, it just adds un-necessary drag to their gameplay. Elite: Dangerous is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. We NEED these people, they do a LOT OF GOOD for the game ecosystem :
  • cull those too weak to survive
  • promote improved gameplay
  • promote more engineering
  • promote smarter ship builds
  • improve skillset amongst the players
  • introduce a genuine danger and threat to the game

Many just do not realise that or refuse to accept that self-evident truth that these players are NECESSARY and ADD A LOT to this game.

Without them it just would not be Elite: Dangerous, this game would be a very miserable and boring place. Everyone would be flying around in their shieldless Condas, ne'er a care in the world. Nobody would "git gud", skilled play would be for die-hard PvPers only, and even then the skill level would drop as it would across the game ecosystem. There would be no incentive to engineer unless one really wants to. There would be no incentive to develop skilled play. There would be no incentive to field quality or creative builds. It would be the death of this game as we know it and love it.

Discouraging people to gank is a big, big mistake.

It is the EXACT SAME in any ecosystem on planet Earth, from the deepest seas, to the savannah, to the jungle and E: D is an ecosystem and needs to be one(as Eve is), for it's long-term survival. The top-tier Apex predators are absolutely needed for a healthy ecosystem and are one of the biggest markers that the ecosystem is in fact healthy and alive. That is one reason I am so concerned by all the big-name PvPers leaving this game, it is a very, very bad sign, same as all the lions or sharks dying, it is an indicator of a damaged and dying ecosystem.

Anyway I know there is a lot of strong, hard, hurt feeling about this issue. Toxicity is very common on this forum, and it will for sure drive people away if left unchecked. Think twice about this before throwing insults at people. They are just trying to make the game better and because they have a different perspective does not mean its ok to be personal or demeaning. I say this only because I have got myself, and seen thrown to others a lot of this, especially in posts of this kind of topic. Disagree with people and disparage their points, but respect THE PERSON.

Signing off,

CMDR Gavin786
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Gavin786 said:
Completely Correct. Its not a rant, its totally valid criticism.

The Notoriety and whole C&P system is a totally broken, lazy mess that is just pandering to the whole carebear crowd.

It does nothing to stop ganking, and just punishes gankers by destroying their immersive experience by fielding "ATR" - super OP NPC that have weapons that would shred any Thargoid, yet used only against the common criminal. How can this be justified? Do gankers have no right to quality of play just because they annoy many vocal people on this forum ?

Could have been done so much better. FDev have sophisticated AI as evidenced by all the complaining about powerful NPCs when they were introduced. Could have been great with fair wing fights of well engineered sophisticated AI NPC ships. But no, its done this lazy, immersion-breaking way. Path of least resistance. Just make lasers with reverbrating cascade and super OP power, super tank shields + same basic AI. Jobs a good one, let them try to gank that, 10 minutes the programming is done lets move on. Lazy, dumb, pandering, pretty disgraceful actually.

And just not fair to the ganking/non-consensual PvP community. They deserve quality gameplay also. Blocks that stop them entering instances are bad enough and totally unfair already. That needs be sorted, its just not right that 1 player can negatively affect another's quality of play in that way by preventing them from instancing in by putting a ban on them. It needs to be the banning player who is instanced out. It needs to be sorted.

The whole Notoriety thing just makes people miserable and for no gain whatsoever. PPL who play ganker style are not deterred in any way, it just adds un-necessary drag to their gameplay. Elite: Dangerous is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. We NEED these people, they do a LOT OF GOOD for the game ecosystem :
  • cull those too weak to survive
  • promote improved gameplay
  • promote more engineering
  • promote smarter ship builds
  • improve skillset amongst the players
  • introduce a genuine danger and threat to the game
Many just do not realise that or refuse to accept that self-evident truth that these players are NECESSARY and ADD A LOT to this game.

Without them it just would not be Elite: Dangerous, this game would be a very miserable and boring place. Everyone would be flying around in their shieldless Condas, ne'er a care in the world. Nobody would "git gud", skilled play would be for die-hard PvPers only, and even then the skill level would drop as it would across the game ecosystem. There would be no incentive to engineer unless one really wants to. There would be no incentive to develop skilled play. There would be no incentive to field quality or creative builds. It would be the death of this game as we know it and love it.

Discouraging people to gank is a big, big mistake.

It is the EXACT SAME in any ecosystem on planet Earth, from the deepest seas, to the savannah, to the jungle and E: D is an ecosystem and needs to be one(as Eve is), for it's long-term survival. The top-tier Apex predators are absolutely needed for a healthy ecosystem and are one of the biggest markers that the ecosystem is in fact healthy and alive. That is one reason I am so concerned by all the big-name PvPers leaving this game, it is a very, very bad sign, same as all the lions or sharks dying, it is an indicator of a damaged and dying ecosystem.

Anyway I know there is a lot of strong, hard, hurt feeling about this issue. Toxicity is very common on this forum, and it will for sure drive people away if left unchecked. Think twice about this before throwing insults at people. They are just trying to make the game better and because they have a different perspective does not mean its ok to be personal or demeaning. I say this only because I have got myself, and seen thrown to others a lot of this, especially in posts of this kind of topic. Disagree with people and disparage their points, but respect THE PERSON.

Signing off,

CMDR Gavin786
Click to expand...
It is odd, truly, that I find this game to be excellent without any company at all, equally excellent when playing with my friends.

I have to admit that Elite Dangerous does not appear to be a 'miserable and boring place' - far from it actually.

And the oddest thing is, all of the excellent gameplay I have enjoyed doesn't appear to have been 'enhanced' by virtue of the group you suggest are essential, do you not think me odd?

On a less frivolous note: Old PvP'ers leaving the game isn't a bad sign, it is a certain sign of some sanity on their part. This game has excellent PvP mechanics, but no 'real' content for the playstyle, no progression, no 'pay', no leaderboard to strive to be at the top of, nothing, nowt, nada.... PvP players must make their own game within this game, how tempting must it be for those players to go 'where the grass is greener' and 'proper' PvP is not only supported but encouraged?

(you see, not a salty word or phrase used throughout :) )
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Gavin786 said:
Completely Correct. Its not a rant, its totally valid criticism.

The Notoriety and whole C&P system is a totally broken, lazy mess that is just pandering to the whole carebear crowd.

It does nothing to stop ganking, and just punishes gankers by destroying their immersive experience by fielding "ATR" - super OP NPC that have weapons that would shred any Thargoid, yet used only against the common criminal. How can this be justified? Do gankers have no right to quality of play just because they annoy many vocal people on this forum ?

Could have been done so much better. FDev have sophisticated AI as evidenced by all the complaining about powerful NPCs when they were introduced. Could have been great with fair wing fights of well engineered sophisticated AI NPC ships. But no, its done this lazy, immersion-breaking way. Path of least resistance. Just make lasers with reverbrating cascade and super OP power, super tank shields + same basic AI. Jobs a good one, let them try to gank that, 10 minutes the programming is done lets move on. Lazy, dumb, pandering, pretty disgraceful actually.

And just not fair to the ganking/non-consensual PvP community. They deserve quality gameplay also. Blocks that stop them entering instances are bad enough and totally unfair already. That needs be sorted, its just not right that 1 player can negatively affect another's quality of play in that way by preventing them from instancing in by putting a ban on them. It needs to be the banning player who is instanced out. It needs to be sorted.

The whole Notoriety thing just makes people miserable and for no gain whatsoever. PPL who play ganker style are not deterred in any way, it just adds un-necessary drag to their gameplay. Elite: Dangerous is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. We NEED these people, they do a LOT OF GOOD for the game ecosystem :
  • cull those too weak to survive
  • promote improved gameplay
  • promote more engineering
  • promote smarter ship builds
  • improve skillset amongst the players
  • introduce a genuine danger and threat to the game
Many just do not realise that or refuse to accept that self-evident truth that these players are NECESSARY and ADD A LOT to this game.

Without them it just would not be Elite: Dangerous, this game would be a very miserable and boring place. Everyone would be flying around in their shieldless Condas, ne'er a care in the world. Nobody would "git gud", skilled play would be for die-hard PvPers only, and even then the skill level would drop as it would across the game ecosystem. There would be no incentive to engineer unless one really wants to. There would be no incentive to develop skilled play. There would be no incentive to field quality or creative builds. It would be the death of this game as we know it and love it.

Discouraging people to gank is a big, big mistake.

It is the EXACT SAME in any ecosystem on planet Earth, from the deepest seas, to the savannah, to the jungle and E: D is an ecosystem and needs to be one(as Eve is), for it's long-term survival. The top-tier Apex predators are absolutely needed for a healthy ecosystem and are one of the biggest markers that the ecosystem is in fact healthy and alive. That is one reason I am so concerned by all the big-name PvPers leaving this game, it is a very, very bad sign, same as all the lions or sharks dying, it is an indicator of a damaged and dying ecosystem.

Anyway I know there is a lot of strong, hard, hurt feeling about this issue. Toxicity is very common on this forum, and it will for sure drive people away if left unchecked. Think twice about this before throwing insults at people. They are just trying to make the game better and because they have a different perspective does not mean its ok to be personal or demeaning. I say this only because I have got myself, and seen thrown to others a lot of this, especially in posts of this kind of topic. Disagree with people and disparage their points, but respect THE PERSON.

Signing off,

CMDR Gavin786
Click to expand...
Notoriety and the current C&P system have nothing to do with ganking.

All this was designed to do is hinder people like me destroying the influence of a controlling faction by non-stop destruction of system security by throwing in ATR after a while and forcing me to leave the system.
 

kaokao

K
Carebears neutered the game. "Death is death" notoriety logic is part of what we got. Be careful of what you wish for.
 

Darth Montu

D
...does he know logging out STOPS the timer? He cant just log out and think it goes away. Notoriety only decreases with in game time, not overall time like transporting ships and stuff.


Be sides... I like it this way. Who whats to be an outlaw with out actually being and outlaw?
 

Gavin786

Gavin786
Deejayeff145 said:
Notoriety and the current C&P system have nothing to do with ganking.

All this was designed to do is hinder people like me destroying the influence of a controlling faction by non-stop destruction of system security by throwing in ATR after a while and forcing me to leave the system.
Click to expand...
The absolute best way of stopping people like you destroying the influence of a controlling faction is to make any and all BGS-altering gameplay restricted to open only. And stop all the instancing/blocking nonsense.

Then those who control that faction can stop you fairly. OR NOT, then you deserve to destroy them and your victory is well earned.

Having OP to the point of being grossly unfair NPCs to do the job of player groups is not right.

Players need to defend their faction, and they need to be able to do so on a fair basis. Not by cutters running goods or PP commodities in solo. Fair, open-only play.

Can imagine that all the amazing, organic play that will occur if there can be REAL, MEANINGFUL player control/ownership of factions and open-only BGS manipulation: alliances between groups, planned expansion, control of system security, building new facilities, real meaningful wars/elections/so on; so many amazing things. And difficult to balance. Which is why Colonia is such a great choice to experiment with things like that. We can do that without seriously mucking up the game while its balanced/made right.

One big hurdle to open-only BGS/real factions is lack of cross-platform play, soon to be a problem in that past(I hope) now that the last hurdles of Sony standing in the way are gone.

So I do understand where you are coming from, but think players need to defend their factions, not ATR. Much needs to change.

Gavin786
 
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