Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

[Surefoot]

There are a lot of good examples of how one can produce better results with less money (and yeah Hellblade is one of the best looking examples ever). SC is a dumpster fire at this point, and having a proper result emerging of that will be nothing short of a miracle. Even tiny indie teams did better in a shorter amount of time.
Still waiting for the "sim" part in "BDSSE". Still waiting for radars and stealth, proper physics, the promised newtonian flight model, the promised progressive 2nd order movement (CiG even set up a whole page on their website, ripe with physics lessons and graphs to explain that !!), and yeah atmo flight model that actually differentiates winged ships, the promised VR, various game loops, the proper MMO server mesh (how many decades away now ? will we turn another century before it's ready ? "early days"..), etc. (oh and where's my hangar in-universe ? How do i take off from it and join the PU, as promised ?)
So far only a clunky version of a CryEngine demo has been delivered with bare physics and quickly thrown together gameplay, and admittedly good looking assets. How many years in and ships still appear without their doors and stuff ? How many more decades before ladders and lifts stop killing us randomly ? Next century for not falling through geometry ? Every time i read "early days" or hear it from CR i cringe, they've been at it for 7 years !!

Also i recall perfectly getting downvoted to hell back in 2014 (first missed deadline..) when i mentioned the game wouldnt be ready by.. 2018. Haha.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

We also have to remember that having a single player campaign included with the MMO was the plan from very early on. Having a single player campaign is also the norm in many other multiplayer games, nothing unusual there.

Many do, but none of the one you took as an example. And indeed, it was the plan from the beginning before they went down the rabbit hole of procedural planets and other things.

That said, with the current PU essentially being a prototype and testing ground for what they are doing on the procedural side of things they seem to be getting planets right at least.

So if they can get the procedural part running well they should have no problem adding systems. It's the handcrafted stuff that really takes time.

The decision to split the two and enlarge the scope (and therefore costs) of both over the years to the point you can even argue that now they may be developing two separate games is all on CIG: This would be covered under the above reference to waste of backers money and lack of competence and production/management skills.

Oh yea, not to mention they basically scrapped what they had done between 2012 and 2014 and started over and have completely redone every asset in the game. I have to say their reworked assets looks incredible, but at what cost...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Ya know, I am much more impressed with what Ninja Theory did with their budget than CIG are doing with theirs. Just continually throwing a crap ton of money at something is not at all impressive.

NT had a tiny budget, they set up a 360 degree recording studio in house using low end kit, had a Go-Pro for handy cam, came up with some really cool tech to record an actor's actions and map them in game in real time and produced a gem of a game.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_qcaLYu62g

It must've cost BILLIONS!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Now, i do not dispute what you are saying but...We have to remember that CIG are creating TWO games at once, that cannot really be disputed, the SQ42 and the multiplayer aspect that both share similar assets so one cannot really say they are having a massive budget for ONE game.

How smart it is to try and make an MMO and a single player campaign all at once that is a completely different subject.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible misrepresentation.

CIG haven't yet made 2 games, and regarding SQ42 we really don't even know how far along they really are, since nobody as seen it for real, except for the devs who said they played through it years ago, it was awesome, and CR said he would put it up against any other AAA game out there, but for some reason was alledgedly scrapped... because it was so awesome? Meanwhile FD have made 4 games overall with roughly the same number of staff.

As you note, those 2 games share a lot of code, assets, and engine, so the "but they are creating 2 games" is largely deflection.

What we can say is that because CIG didn't plan ahead and figure out their needs before telling everyone they could do it and before they started selling hundreds and thousands of dollars ship, is that they have massive technical hurdles to overcome that are affecting the progress and release of both games.

The whole history of CIG is analogous to CR declaring that he was going to paint the moon blue armed with nothing but a small stepladder and a tin of paint and declaring that he could magically extend that ladder to the moon and spread the paint all over it... and then selling parts of that blue painted moon to backers.

He declared he was going to do something before he had any clue how he was going to do any of it, and that is why SC and SQ42 are in this state of perpertual alpha with no release dates in sight.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What exactly is this game "most of us want to play"?

Over the years CIG have pitched 'best damn space game' with FPS that exceeds COD, with racing that exceeds GTA all taking place in "space" all in "massive multiplayer" "living breathing universe "...which is just everything. Working on linux with amazing VR and mods and self hosted servers.

The design seems to be literally all things to all men. A dangerous thing to be crowdfunding and an absurd way to go about creating any product.

They have delivered something quite sparse on mechanics with very questionable design choices that comes off more as a P2W map space to mess around in expensive assets that partially fund the "Robert's family trust" . It's not something I want to play much and isn't what Robert's pitched in 2012.

I dont see this reality in which CIG suddenly prove that scope creep works or promising just whatever brings in donations at the time. At some point you have to start nailing down a release scope which inevitably will disappoint OR you have to rely solely on your consumers unlimited trust that you will one day deliver everything you promised. I wonder if that trust is truly unlimited relative to human life span.

I dont think there is a consumer entertainment product that "most of us want to play" as we all have different expectations, in reality developers should offer us what they have achieved. Discerning consumers should be backing reviewable products on the shelf.

They started by saying they were going to make the best damn space sim ever. Then they expanded the scope, therefore making the bestester damn space sim ever. Then they expanded the scope even more to be making the besterestist damn space sim ever. I'm not sure the English language can even come up with a word for just how besteresestingupmost the finished product will be!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Also i recall perfectly getting downvoted to hell back in 2014 (first missed deadline..) when i mentioned the game wouldnt be ready by.. 2018. Haha.

I'm sure many of us skeptics got downvoted for saying the game wouldn't be released until 2018, 2019, etc. And i suppose we were right to be downvoted... we were so wrong. Who would have guessed CIG would exceed our skeptical expectations and take even longer!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Oh sovapid.....

EDIT, just providing link as was going to put it in spoiler tags, but probably still against FD rules. Naughty word in there.

https: //i.imgur.com/OPDQdyp.png

Damn fancy forums, can't even do a link without out displaying a copy of the image. Remove the space between s and slash and post it into your address bar.

Let the salt flow.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

They aren't making 2 games. They CLAIM to make 2 games. Big difference. So far it's been just zzing about some vapourware.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Well for past few days I am unable to leave Port Tressler space station in orbit of Microtech because terminal refuse to spawn my ship on landing pad when ever I tried it just said try a bit later.... anyone have any idea how to handle this bug?

 

[VR Golgot]

Perform the sacred rite!

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ehl4ht

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ehl4ht/uhmmyou_ok_there_bud/?st=k4sjsixc&sh=d4fedda8

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well for past few days I am unable to leave Port Tressler space station in orbit of Microtech because terminal refuse to spawn my ship on landing pad when ever I tried it just said try a bit later.... anyone have any idea how to handle this bug?

Resync with the velocity. SC picks up pace constantly coming together ever faster.

 

[lysan]

Just getting caught up with gaming news, and it looks like hellion is no more. Seems like CIG really does need $250M + to develop the game most of us want to play.

I would be interested in ED, costs too. I can see it costing billions to make games in the future.

I just want to be able to land on all planets and moons, walk around, and build a small outpost. I’m sure FDEV can do this, if the do I will keep playing and buy stuff to keep the game rolling.

 

[Viajero]

Many do, but none of the one you took as an example.

It is relevant because the point was made about the OP in this series of comments, and with regards to the alleged ability to release reasonably successful space games with much smaller budgets than "billions".

Your goal post moving exercise related to the separate single player campaign and MMO came only later in the discussion, and it is not too relevant at that I am afraid: Indeed it was CIG's call to do a single player campaign alongside the MMO early on (something hardly revolutionary and quite standard in many games), and therefore they should have adapted their scope and compromise on content and manage their budget accordingly. Having a single player campaign in addition to the multiplayer elements would usually mean a bit less money available for the MMO and diverted to the single player etc etc. But CIG did not manage well that compromise (refer to my comment about lack of competence and production/management skills). They instead decided to balloon their scope in both elements and the cost that goes with it, wasting most of the backers money so far in the process.

The OP in this series of comments is simply mistaking that lack of project control for a new standard in making games.

 

[lysan]

It is relevant because the point was made about the OP in this series of comments, and with regards to the alleged ability to release reasonably successful space games with much smaller budgets than "billions".

Your goal post moving exercise related to the separate single player campaign and MMO came only later in the discussion, and it is not too relevant at that I am afraid: Indeed it was CIG's call to do a single player campaign alongside the MMO early on (something hardly revolutionary and quite standard in many games), and therefore they should have adapted their scope and compromise on content and manage their budget accordingly. Having a single player campaign in addition to the multiplayer elements would usually mean a bit less money available for the MMO and diverted to the single player etc etc. But CIG did not manage well that compromise (refer to my comment about lack of competence and production/management skills). They instead decided to balloon their scope in both elements and the cost that goes with it, wasting most of the backers money so far in the process.

The OP in this series of comments is simply mistaking that lack of project control with a new standard for making games.

I highly doubt they had any professional project control, this “project” was from day one impulse driven. I don’t know if the PM was CR or some apprentice they hired strait from school, however there never was any control at all.

 

[MTBFritz]

We have to remember that CIG are creating TWO games at once

This is being said constantly but we have to take it on faith because apart from 2 flashy trailers we have next to no proof that this is actually the case. CIGs secrecy surrounding SQ42 is suspicious at best and considering we are going the 8th year of development without anything known about that side of the project work I seriously doubt Chris is honest about their intention, actual work or capability. The usual deflection "spoiler" really doesnt hold this deep into development anymore especially as there are all kind of leaks available but not for this.

Arguing that its two games sounds like CIG is tearing itself apart but both games are almost identical, only the target audience varies. Its the same universe, same assets, same mechanics, same functionalities. Therefore I doubt its much of an effort for CIG and shouldnt be brought up as "extra" hardship really.

Actually...instead of saying "CIG is making TWO games" I would rather state "CIG is making ONE game that they SPLIT to charge people TWICE". This actually is more in line with what we know and expect from CIG too. And from what I know about CIG and how they work I d even go so far and dare to say they "PLAN to make two games but havent started on the second yet". AFAIK Chris announced SQ42 as a tutorial campaign to get people into the Star Citizen universe, only later did it become a fully fledged game, split off to cost extra and touted to be the main project...or not....depending on who you ask and when. CIG has the tendency to shift its focus to whatever is a convenient excuse for its delays at any given time (blockers and such...).

Its the old formula....allowing CIG the benefit of the doubt and praising them for something they havent delivered yet. The intention alone doesnt count for me....results do.

 

[Mole HD]

Well for past few days I am unable to leave Port Tressler space station in orbit of Microtech because terminal refuse to spawn my ship on landing pad when ever I tried it just said try a bit later.... anyone have any idea how to handle this bug?

Unfortunately, you need someone to give you a ride to another station and spawn the ship from there...it's the only workaround for that particular bug.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Unfortunately, you need someone to give you a ride to another station and spawn the ship from there...it's the only workaround for that particular bug.

It’ll be sad when they’ve fixed the bugs - they appear to be major source of gameplay

 

[Tippis]

Arguing that its two games sounds like CIG is tearing itself apart but both games are almost identical, only the target audience varies. Its the same universe, same assets, same mechanics, same functionalities. Therefore I doubt its much of an effort for CIG and shouldnt be brought up as "extra" hardship really.

Actually...instead of saying "CIG is making TWO games" I would rather state "CIG is making ONE game that they SPLIT to charge people TWICE". This actually is more in line with what we know and expect from CIG too.

In fact, even if we were to accept that they're somehow two games rather than one game and an excuse to play hollywood director mission pack, it's worth pointing out that they are pretty much completely parallelisable tasks with almost zero overlap in resource and competence needs. One requires programmers and artists; the other needs writers and a few randos to hook up mission scripts. And obviously five (or how many they are up to now) mocap studios — that's the most important bit.

It's a trivial separation of tasks that makes it the exact same thing as creating any one regular game, and the only way to really screw that up is to put a bunch of highly incompetent people in charge of things like planning and scoping and project managemooooooh… oh darn.

 

[Azirphaeli]

There is no doubt that atmospheric planets provide the opportunity for fantastic screen shots. Seeing some of the screen shots in SC there are some great examples.

...and that's why I own Space Engine.

 

[Skizomeuh]

...and that's why I own Space Engine.

Yeah, but can you make funny FOIP faces while regulating your physically fidelized bodily fluids on the most detailed than never made before water closets of your ship while fellow citizens mop the main deck? Ha!