Heck, even adding larger shops (restaurants) where guests and eat/drink AND sit down - maybe even use them to make overlooks into habitats as you see in a lot of zoos? - would help a lot. I mean, I've created an entire building that houses 8 food and drink shops in the middle of my zoo and it's STILL not enough, even with several food/drink areas where there's at least four food/drink shops. Guest needs are INSANE. If they want realism, look at Blijdorp (Dutch zoo) for instance. You have big restaurants where a lot of people can sit at the same time, where there's hardly any queues because it's self-serve. Why are we limited to those itty-bitty, teeny-tiny shops that don't even have a resting area?
Guests constant needs for shops ruins the game
The problem with this is that the way the game is designed... we rely on donations and the stall for most of our income.. The game designers have to change a lot more in order for things to work correctly.. One of the major changes would have to be how much we pay for feeding animals.. Because as it is, the price is seriously out of control.
If you saw what my North American zoo looks like.. for food and drink stalls.. you would probably do a double take.. I have a smaller area then you do.. and have just about as many - ish.. my needs are all in the green and pretty decently covered..I agree, especially the thirst need is insane. I mean I don't think I ever had a zoo where that need was in the green for a longer period of time without placing drink shops every 5-10m and that is NOT what the game should be about. And I get that the guest gotta have needs as well and of course you have to look after them just as much as the animals to make a zoo a real success, but it really needs to be balanced way better in the game. So please, either reduce the guests need for food and especially drink or at least give us drinking fountains like the others already mentioned which we can place every few meters...
This is my main franchise zoo ATM (there are two more food courts not shown with 2 drink and food stalls each) and guests just keep running from one drink shop to the next and obviously it's still far from enough. I already added more shops inbetween the food courts but it's barely making a difference and constantly playing planet thirst need manager really isn't fun anymore :/
Oh and the fact that higher temps make it even worse than it already is doesn't help either...like my zoo's set in Europe and I don't even wanna know how many drink shops you'd need in an African desert zoo where it's constantly 42°C ._.
What I found was that my guest's B-line straight for stalls when they first get into the park.. So i set up 3 food stalls, 2 information booths, 3 drink stalls, and 2 restrooms.. all at the start of my zoo.. Have had very little complaints with the design so far..
You're absolutely right. The whole idea of a zoo almost entirely relying on food/drink income and donations (other than entrance fees) feels really unrealistic. It should be a bit more balanced. Or maybe use the donations to alleviate the feeding costs so you can at least break-even, because as it stands my animals are literally eating me out of a business. I could of course stop breeding them, but I think that's kinda besides the whole point of having a zoo.
Meh, it doesn't bother me. I set up a "set" of shops at every stopping point. Never less than 5 so I can have food, drinks, info and shopping. In the busier areas I double it and put them back to back. It works fine and my outrageous no-holding back sandbox zoo is actually 5 star and profitable. I have lots of carnivores so the food cost is huge but the shops offset that. It's just the way the game works and if you build with that in mind it works fine. The shops also force me to spread out my zoo a bit which is good because when it got built up and busier I didn't have too much overcrowding. I can't imagine anyone actually having a space problem in this game, the land they give us is huge, why is it a problem to have lots of shops?
The problem would be that though we have lots of space, we cannot utilize all of it for two reasons. 1. An absurd need for shops between every habitat. 2. The crippling FPS for well above recommend specs at 5-8k guests. Well, now three. 3. The combination of 1&2. We need shops to lure people to stay long enough, but they get so upset when they go 100 yards without drink or food that they leave and ask for a refund. Now, my zoo was at 125-175k a year with 4,000 guests. Now at 6k guests(I capped it due to large and FPS at 6.5-7) I’m at 50k because they all herd at my entrance and complain about long lines when they could walk 50-100 yards and be in a new spot, but they would rather turn around because my 5 drink, 4 food, 3 info, and 3 merch shops in my entrance are too busy and they will instead be angry the remainder of their visit. I would say about 2-3k at any moment are in my entry area in lines or leaving because lines are too long for them. Yes, plenty of space, but guests are not willing to walk 50 yds to get that gulpee slush. Instead they say they are unhappy and get their money back after 15-25 minutes.
Current state of my zoo is 60k(much lower after expansion because guests won’t walk far without food and drink) profit, guests at 79%(hover between 76-88) happiness after year 72, with 55k in unhappy refunds because of drink, foood, or no umbrellas. I have been to 10+ zoos and never has my amount of stops at shops outweighed that of habitats, yet most guests do. If we could utilize the space and guests were semi-athletic (walk 100 yds with no burger and coke?) then perhaps the guests would be far happier and zoos far more profitable. But if they want us to build a mall with a few animals
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I think a lot depends on what habitats you put where. You can kind of shape the flow of your crowds if you look at the draw (attractiveness?) of each animal. I have just 5 shops at my entrance but all I have there are exhibits and two small habitats for tortoises and flamingos, nice but not big draws. From there I have a wide path up a ramp to a huge landing with viewing for 3 huge habitats for lions, elephants, and giraffes. It's quite a walk but these are big draw animals so I put 10 shops on the landing all together in a clump where the main viewing areas are. That gets the guests away from the entrance. These shops are very busy but because there are many of them the lines aren't too bad. The rest of my zoo you have to get on a River Boat ride to see. The entrance to the ride is right next to the busiest area so it gets used well. The boat has 7 stations that go to islands where I have other habitats so 5 shops on each island - the shops are the first thing they see when they get off a boat and they make a beeline to it and then go visit the animals. Big draw animals get an island all to themselves, the lower draw ones I have 2 or 3 to an island. It seems to balance out. Guests are capped at 4000 and all runs smoothly, the zoo is profitable, albeit barely, and I have very few refunds. All these shops make good money for the zoo, I jacked up the prices on everything. I also now charge $20 at every boat ride station, so that helps too. I think it's important to have at least 1 ATM near every place that charges money - rides & shops. And don't forget bathrooms, I have one for every 5 shops. Guests get unhappy if they need a bathroom and there isn't one handy. I'd make more money if I didn't have an enormous staff that is fully trained and paid the highest possible wage, but I just really believe in that so I do it anyway 
When I had my guest count capped at 4,000 all ran smoothly as well. Guests were at 90% consistently, game flowed nicely with no build up of guests at entryway, and a great yearly profit. The issue simply lies with big zoos. It gets a bit laggy, but nothing terrible at 6k visitors. The issue is that all visitors come in hungry. thirsty, or some other mysterious need they need addressed ASAP. My zoo branches 4 directions from the main welcome center. All have big draw animals with the exception of the poor South American section of a tortoise and tapir. One has elephants, lions. the other Bison. When you look at where my guests have been it may end up being 3 habitats, an exhibit or two, and 7 shops. They have a hat on their head, a drink in their hand, and some fries in their mouth, but when they leave you can be sure they are going to complain that they did not have enough time to see the giraffes even though the monsieur frites they stopped at is on the Giraffe Paddock. The larger the zoo gets, the more upset they get because instead of wanting to see 2 animals my guests now want to see 5. Entirely realistic and fine, but with the time cap, and the amount of time they waste at shops, they have trouble seeing all the animals they would like because of time constraint and oddly random AI movement.
My issue for guests really comes down to this.
1. They come in with needs they need filled ASAP or they may turn around 5-10 minutes into their visit. This could be a simple fix. They could allow a second port of entry to avoid all guests hovering in one location, or simply have the guests be more willing to view animals on entry or to walk farther to get their soda.
2. They need to stop at so many shops that it takes up far too much of their time. Tamper down these needs. I never go to any location like a zoo and visit more shops or vendors than what I came to view. Museums, zoos, aquariums: I tend to visit the exhibits and animals more than shop for snacks. I may be wrong, but I believe most would be like this as well. A few stops for a drink or pretzel? Maybe a meal if I am starving, sure. Allowing them the ability to walk farther before being fed up a shop is busy would also help alleviate this issue. And tampering down their needs.
3. This wish I could have stayed longer to see & _. Well, you have twenty minutes left and every other comment & indicator is green...why do you not venture their on your way out of the zoo? This puts a lot of guests in the yellow or even red. Easy fix: Allow more time and have them utilize all of it.
4. Finally, and not really tied into this thread, but a strange annoyance for me, is the 35% of guests who complain when it snows or rains that they should have brought an umbrella or hope it is a small flurry. I have never once been mad at an establishment for it raining or any other weather anomaly on the day I choose to go.
I love the game; I just hope to be able to build a large, real world size zoo that is not crippled because guests are more focused on food & drink and time constraints make it difficult to see all animals.
My issue for guests really comes down to this.
1. They come in with needs they need filled ASAP or they may turn around 5-10 minutes into their visit. This could be a simple fix. They could allow a second port of entry to avoid all guests hovering in one location, or simply have the guests be more willing to view animals on entry or to walk farther to get their soda.
2. They need to stop at so many shops that it takes up far too much of their time. Tamper down these needs. I never go to any location like a zoo and visit more shops or vendors than what I came to view. Museums, zoos, aquariums: I tend to visit the exhibits and animals more than shop for snacks. I may be wrong, but I believe most would be like this as well. A few stops for a drink or pretzel? Maybe a meal if I am starving, sure. Allowing them the ability to walk farther before being fed up a shop is busy would also help alleviate this issue. And tampering down their needs.
3. This wish I could have stayed longer to see & _. Well, you have twenty minutes left and every other comment & indicator is green...why do you not venture their on your way out of the zoo? This puts a lot of guests in the yellow or even red. Easy fix: Allow more time and have them utilize all of it.
4. Finally, and not really tied into this thread, but a strange annoyance for me, is the 35% of guests who complain when it snows or rains that they should have brought an umbrella or hope it is a small flurry. I have never once been mad at an establishment for it raining or any other weather anomaly on the day I choose to go.
I love the game; I just hope to be able to build a large, real world size zoo that is not crippled because guests are more focused on food & drink and time constraints make it difficult to see all animals.
You make some good points. I guess at my zoo, once they get on the boat ride I kinda have them because it goes all around the zoo and they can't go home until they get off at the last stop
I have to agree that the guests are rather demanding and inconsiderate. I wonder if hotels, like they had in JWE, would make a difference? It should remove any time constraints.
I just used the heatmap to see why i had like 50.000 refunds, and i found out that they only complain about drinks and food.. While i have every 2 or 3 habitats a few food/drink shops..
That is SOOO unrealistic, in the Netherlands there are in 1 zoo about 3 to 4 places where you can eat/drink, sometimes 1 little shop here and there, but they are not so heavely used as in this game.. the food/drink needs of the guests are just unrealisticly high making the game way less enjoyable and ruin the overall game experience and the looks of the zoo....
Like it is now, you need to put food/drink shops next to every habitat.. BUT it is a ZOO game,. not a restaurant with a few animals game !!
I hope this will get fixed, because it is so unrealistic and doesnt meet the expectations of this game at all...
That is SOOO unrealistic, in the Netherlands there are in 1 zoo about 3 to 4 places where you can eat/drink, sometimes 1 little shop here and there, but they are not so heavely used as in this game.. the food/drink needs of the guests are just unrealisticly high making the game way less enjoyable and ruin the overall game experience and the looks of the zoo....
Like it is now, you need to put food/drink shops next to every habitat.. BUT it is a ZOO game,. not a restaurant with a few animals game !!
I hope this will get fixed, because it is so unrealistic and doesnt meet the expectations of this game at all...
Exactly. On the one hand we keep hearing about 'realistic needs' for animals when it comes to habitats (like the polar bears), but on the other hand we're dealing with extremely unrealistic guest behavior and demands. I don't go to a zoo to eat and drink. I go to a zoo to SEE ANIMALS. I know that I'll spend a lot of time walking from habitat to habitat to see all the animals (because I never go to a zoo JUST to see that one particular animal) and if there's a ride, maybe I'll take it (btw, most rides I know of in zoos are FREE, because it's a service they offer to help their guests get from one side of the zoo to the other). But to be FORCED to have, as someone said in another comment, at least five shops (food, drinks and miscellaneous) at every other intersection (maybe exaggerated a bit, but you get what I'm saying) just so your guests won't get hangry isn't fun. There's also the fact that I feel, again as someone else said, there's far too few options for shops/stalls to create a feeling of a diverse zoo with diverse choices. Large restaurants, small vending machines, maybe even carts that you can move around. Give more options for souvenirs (only hats, balloons and umbrellas?), make it so that guests want to walk a bit further just so they can get to that ONE shop. Maybe even give us the option to sort of 'create a shop' with custom inventory (that's probably too much of a hassle, but I can dream).
But for the love of all that's holy, CHANGE GUEST NEEDS.
(sorry! quoting isn't realy working here )
Andara said: "Exactly. On the one hand we keep hearing about 'realistic needs' for animals when it comes to habitats"
I prefere to see more 'realistic behaviour' with the animals (which was advertised, but i see a few behaviours repeating with every animal, and almost non between animals), than the unrealistic drink/food needs of the guests..
The other options you gave for large restaurants, foodcarts etc are good idea's!
) Andara said: "Exactly. On the one hand we keep hearing about 'realistic needs' for animals when it comes to habitats"
I prefere to see more 'realistic behaviour' with the animals (which was advertised, but i see a few behaviours repeating with every animal, and almost non between animals), than the unrealistic drink/food needs of the guests..
The other options you gave for large restaurants, foodcarts etc are good idea's!
Oh yes, I'd love to see more realistic behavior in the animals, like moving as a herd (someone else mentioned that as well in another thread), distinctive fur patterns, maybe even a kind of 'individuality' for animals. Have them NOT want to swim all the time to get across a 'river' even with a perfectly fine and traverseable area. Maybe sleep in different postures. Things like that.
Indeed. Also one thing that makes it really bad is the lack of water fountains, as I've never seen a zoo (or anything other than a theme park really) with so many vendor shops. It makes the zoos look like a carnival rather than a zoo.I agree, especially the thirst need is insane. I mean I don't think I ever had a zoo where that need was in the green for a longer period of time without placing drink shops every 5-10m and that is NOT what the game should be about. And I get that the guest gotta have needs as well and of course you have to look after them just as much as the animals to make a zoo a real success, but it really needs to be balanced way better in the game. So please, either reduce the guests need for food and especially drink or at least give us drinking fountains like the others already mentioned which we can place every few meters...
This is my main franchise zoo ATM (there are two more food courts not shown with 2 drink and food stalls each) and guests just keep running from one drink shop to the next and obviously it's still far from enough. I already added more shops inbetween the food courts but it's barely making a difference and constantly playing planet thirst need manager really isn't fun anymore :/
Oh and the fact that higher temps make it even worse than it already is doesn't help either...like my zoo's set in Europe and I don't even wanna know how many drink shops you'd need in an African desert zoo where it's constantly 42°C ._.
Exactly. I even added two more drink shops to the right after I made that screen and it's still not enough. Also added a whole lot of additional coolers on all the paths on top of the ones I already had and while I don't get any comments that it's too hot anymore it changed nothing regarding the guests need for drinks, so planet drink stall it is...
I just think the way it is now once you reach a certain amount of guests the shops simply can't handle enough customers at once to make it work without adding ten or more shops in one place. If they don't wanna change the guests needs then maybe they could give us something more efficient to work with e.g. actual restaurants and cafés (like others mentioned already) where customers can go in and eat/drink that can handle 50 or 100+ guests at once, kinda like with the larger staff buildings.
I just think the way it is now once you reach a certain amount of guests the shops simply can't handle enough customers at once to make it work without adding ten or more shops in one place. If they don't wanna change the guests needs then maybe they could give us something more efficient to work with e.g. actual restaurants and cafés (like others mentioned already) where customers can go in and eat/drink that can handle 50 or 100+ guests at once, kinda like with the larger staff buildings.
Maybe, but I can't remember it being that bad in PC...though, I might have to check again since I haven't played in a while. And we did get restaurants in PC later on so here's hoping they'll make it to PZ as well at some point.
It didn't feel as bad because the focus was the guests and the scale of theme parks is generally smaller than zoos. Also the guest needs there are ,itigated by the guets "willingness" to wait in long lines,while in PZ there are no lines and gets are not willing to walk long distances.
I've started today with a new franchise, i have now 3 habitats and 2 exhibits, runs pretty well but i have now 8 food/drink shops between the habitat's, and 80% of the guest thoughts is: gulpee soda is busy, i'll try somewhere else, chief beef is busy, i'll go somewhere else..
This is just very unrealistic, also just like the fact that the staff don't want to walk by 2 small habitats to the shop, without complaining about the distance. in real zoo's there are not so many drink/food places, and also not a keeperhut or staffbuiling next to every 1 or 2 habitats.
but i have now 8 food/drink shops between the habitat's, and 80% of the guest thoughts is: gulpee soda is busy, i'll try somewhere else, chief beef is busy, i'll go somewhere else.. This is just very unrealistic, also just like the fact that the staff don't want to walk by 2 small habitats to the shop, without complaining about the distance. in real zoo's there are not so many drink/food places, and also not a keeperhut or staffbuiling next to every 1 or 2 habitats.