Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

[Rubbernuke]

Mole Island has its own way of dealing with criminals....

Here in rural France crime is essentially nil too- the most illegal thing to happen was hunting dogs running across busy roads unsupervised.

 

[Asp Explorer]

All evidence to the contrary.

You are completely correct, of course.

But how many games have CI-G released?

 

[[VR] Merkir]

You are completely correct, of course.

But how many games have CI-G released?

Are we allowed to use imaginary numbers? If so, my answer is 0.17i.

 

[Mole HD]

Well, their server tokenization was certainly a huge great big jobbie.

CI-G's entire network concept is generated either by a complete networking genius sharing progress with a team of skilled socket slingers, or an utterly inept networking noob who wandered into the networking tent at a nerd gig completely by mistake on his way to catch a bus to the Jobcentre.

This stuff is difficult. You cannot just delay for years and sell Idrises.

The heart of the entire networking issue lies with the genius at the very top who simply doesn't have the capability to understand the neccessity of a reliable network structure... or any other part of multiplayer based game development since he's never been involved in or completed any development project since the 90's. His priorities for Star Citizen were from the start...let's make a pretty game (why he picked Cryengine in the first place) then someone or other will add all the unimportant stuff later... anything he didn't view as 'important' in his completely narcissistic vision for the project was... and still are... almost completely starved of development resources and appropriate hires to implement except to merely function as a short term and only partially effective solution.

He'd rather hire 14 graphic artists to make the dustbins in the space stations look pretty than hire another 3 network engineers to make a competent multiplayer title even a remote possibility in the near future.

His utter hubris and dictatorial micromanagement of every item or resource involved in the creation of Star Citizen means that anyone who knows any better is forbidden from telling him what Ci¬G should realistically be focussing on to drag this project out of the chaotic development hell it's been mired in for the last 7 years and more importantly, when they should be doing it... not if they weren't planning on looking for a new job in the next month that is.

 

[Rubbernuke]

A silly question but: is the persistence now a test of persistence before the game goes 'live' or is the persistence considered final? If its the latter (i.e. players accrue stuff from now on) surely thats a tacit nod to saying the game is live so to speak?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The heart of the entire networking issue lies with the genius at the very top who simply doesn't have the capability to understand the neccessity of a reliable network structure... or any other part of multiplayer based game development since he's never been involved in or completed any development project since the 90's. His priorities for Star Citizen were from the start...let's make a pretty game (why he picked Cryengine in the first place) then someone or other will add all the unimportant stuff later... anything he didn't view as 'important' in his completely narcissistic vision for the project was... and still is... almost completely starved of development resources and appropriate hires to implement except to merely function as a short term and only partially effective solution.

He'd rather hire 14 graphic artists to make the dustbins in the space stations look pretty than hire another 3 network engineers to make a competent multiplayer title even a remote possibility in the near future.

His utter hubris and dictatorial micromanagement of every item or resource involved in the creation of Star Citizen means that anyone who knows any better is forbidden from telling him what Ci¬G should realistically be focussing on to drag this project out of the chaotic development hell it's been mired in for the last 7 years and more importantly, when they should be doing it... not if they weren't planning on looking for a new job in the next month that is.

CR himself said that he doesn't like it when people tell him something can't be done and that he gets rid of such people.

So anyone who values their job says yes sir, yes sir, three bags full, and then finds a way to blame their failure to deliver on something else so they don't get the boot. That's my thoery anyway.

Dev: "Yes, it would work, but only if we had iCache"
CR: "Tell me more about this iCache! You! Peon in the red shirt! You, do iCache!"
Peon Dev: "Yes Chris... damn... now i need to invent something to blame failure to deliver on"

 

[Viajero]

... or is the persistence considered final?

Haha, no.

"Baby Long Term Persistence", early days baby.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Haha, no.

"Baby Long Term Persistence", early days baby.

Tier 0.

Funny thing is though, they didn't actually add anything. They simply stopped deleting everything on wipe.

 

[Rubbernuke]

What I'm interested in really is that once persistence comes in, surely that marks the game as live? You will then have players building themselves up now compared to later players.

Although ED got a spanking for releasing when they did, the skeleton was functional enough to allow for ongoing fairness. Since SC never has / had a 'start' (since its never finished enough to start) and with purchasable ships I'm wondering where everything is at.

 

[Viajero]

What I'm interested in really is that once persistence comes in, surely that marks the game as live? You will then have players building themselves up now compared to later players.

Although ED got a spanking for releasing when they did, the skeleton was functional enough to allow for ongoing fairness. Since SC never has / had a 'start' (since its never finished enough to start) and with purchasable ships I'm wondering where everything is at.

That is precisely one of the main issues with the funding of SC. A big chunk, if not all, of those funds are obtained thanks to the backers believe and faith that one day all that is incomplete, non functional, buggy and instable will be complete, functional, polished and stable. The moment CIG calls something final and it is still not any of the latter the core of the very profitable existing business model may start to crumble.

Simply put CIG currently sells hype and dreams and can not afford to call things "final", at least not yet.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That is porecisely one of the main issues with the funding of SC. A big chunk, if not all, of those funds are based on the beleieve and faith that one day all that is incomplete, non functional, buggy and instable will be complete, functional, polished and stable. The moment CIG calls something final and it is not any of the latter the core of the very profitable existing business model may start to crumble.

I'm not trying to swerve into doomsaying, but if persistence is tenuously in could CR and CiG management argue if the project folds they delivered a game of sorts? SC today is not a traditional game but some sort of meta lifestyle. Its fascinating but I'm glad when I tossed a coin to support KS SC or ED it landed tails and not heads.

 

[Viajero]

I'm not trying to swerve into doomsaying, but if persistence is tenuously in could CR and CiG management argue if the project folds they delivered a game of sorts? SC today is not a traditional game but some sort of meta lifestyle. Its fascinating but I'm glad when I tossed a coin to support KS SC or ED it landed tails and not heads.

Indeed, they could. They could release it today and call it quits. The aftermath would be truly pop corn worthy though.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Indeed, they could. They could release it today and call it quits. The aftermath would be truly pop corn worthy though.

So is 2020 the year of put up / shut up reckoning though? I'm keen to see outside of pretty ships what else SC has (but then so is everyone else )

 

[Tippis]

When was the first time CI¬G trumpeted out the message “persistence is in!” again? 2016?

 

[killminster]

I'm getting strong hostage video vibes from that screengrab.

Check the video and see if he's blinking in morse code.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What I'm interested in really is that once persistence comes in, surely that marks the game as live? You will then have players building themselves up now compared to later players.

Although ED got a spanking for releasing when they did, the skeleton was functional enough to allow for ongoing fairness. Since SC never has / had a 'start' (since its never finished enough to start) and with purchasable ships I'm wondering where everything is at.

It ain't live until the fat man sings.

And until they call it live, they can wipe everything whenever they want because its "alpha".

So this newfound persistence (ie: devs not deleting everything every few months) will still see perioidic wipes, and it wouldn't surprise me if those full wipes coincided with a ship sale.

 

[Surefoot]

So this newfound persistence (ie: devs not deleting everything every few months) will still see perioidic wipes, and it wouldn't surprise me if those full wipes coincided with a ship sale.

Or a game balance change, or economy change.. this is, for once, normal in a game development cycle.

 

[Esvandiary]

Then there's this classic:

This one is interesting, because it mirrors CIG's overriding historical behaviour when it comes to communication: just make sure there's consistently loads of it. That works really well, because it gives backers the Most Transparent Development Ever angle to believe in - but the problem with all that communication (including this chart!) is that they don't have to deliver on any of it. Most of this happens across long enough timescales that by the time the actual features are meant to have happened, the backers have moved onto the Next Big Things and forgotten all about this stuff (or in many cases they've been replaced by a fresh set of backers who weren't even around for the earlier comms!)

That's what makes the current community-made roadmap summaries pretty awkward for CIG - you can clearly see forward progress (or lack thereof), and in the SQ42 case when that progress was supposedly meant to have been done. That's absolute kryptonite for the strategy that has brought them in so much money over the years - and you can see it in people's reactions to the last few iterations. The only real saving grace for them is that for the PU roadmap the creator is happy to just move entries back into later versions and not leave any record in the patch they were originally meant to be part of...

I'd be very curious to know how much of this chart actually got delivered and when... just like I'd be curious to know how much of the dreams put out as video content by CIG over the years has actually come true. Of course, the latter especially is a task gargantuan enough to put any sane person off - which is, after all, half the point.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This one is interesting, because it mirrors CIG's overriding historical behaviour when it comes to communication: just make sure there's consistently loads of it. That works really well, because it gives backers the Most Transparent Development Ever angle to believe in - but the problem with all that communication (including this chart!) is that they don't have to deliver on any of it. Most of this happens across long enough timescales that by the time the actual features are meant to have happened, the backers have moved onto the Next Big Things and forgotten all about this stuff (or in many cases they've been replaced by a fresh set of backers who weren't even around for the earlier comms!)

That's what makes the current community-made roadmap summaries pretty awkward for CIG - you can clearly see forward progress (or lack thereof), and in the SQ42 case when that progress was supposedly meant to have been done. That's absolute kryptonite for the strategy that has brought them in so much money over the years - and you can see it in people's reactions to the last few iterations. The only real saving grace for them is that for the PU roadmap the creator is happy to just move entries back into later versions and not leave any record in the patch they were originally meant to be part of...

I'd be very curious to know how much of this chart actually got delivered and when... just like I'd be curious to know how much of the dreams put out as video content by CIG over the years has actually come true. Of course, the latter especially is a task gargantuan enough to put any sane person off - which is, after all, half the point.

So, are you telling me we aren't getting Sataball?

My great great grandchildren will be so dissapointed!

 

[Esvandiary]

So, are you telling me we aren't getting Sataball?

My great great grandchildren will be so dissapointed!

I feel like by now it's been long enough that they should at least be renaming it to NVMeBall.