FSS - my opinion

[Sysmon]

Some people have more fun using one than the other and vice versa. In a game we play to have fun that is enough reason, is it not?

Again, how does the existence of the choice reduce the fun for anyone with a solid preference?

Shouldn't we be on a level playground though? While your sentiment is understandable, it basically blocks any options for improvement as anything different from the past version is considered intolerable by some.

We had a lot of discussion about the 3 discovery scanners in the beginning, some of those revolving around why we had to navigate and explore using techniques that even today are 1000s of years old. Then we got the unlimited ADS and any hint of game-play involving the actual shipboard instrument was gone.

The game-play came back with the FSS, if in a different form. And the pendulum has swung too far the other way, I will grant that.

S

 

[iain666]

I possibly misunderstand you, otherwise you are talking about the only compromise I could actually accept.

If both option as mutually exclusive is the "only compromise [you] could actually accept" then that's what I'm talking about, although I still don't get how anything else spoils your fun....

Shouldn't we be on a level playground though? While your sentiment is understandable, it basically blocks any options for improvement as anything different from the past version is considered intolerable by some.

In PvP, yes we should. In exploration? Who cares, we'll all likely be dead before we can even say we've covered a whole 1% of the galaxy, it's not a zero sum competition.

FDev can change what they want when they want, if I stop having fun I'll stop playing. I really have no horse in this race, I'm just trying to get my head around how the existence of the option spoiling the fun of anyone.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I can't wrap my head around this at all. If dropping the FSS and replacing it with the ADS as it was were mutually exclusive options then how would your fun be spoiled by that?

You keep your FSS as is, some people choose to swap it out for the ADS as was and you can no longer have fun using the FSS because ... ?

What we kept getting told was, some people need to be able to pretend to have fun make the thing that isn't fun fun. In that level of clarity.

 

[Faded Glory]

What we kept getting told was, some people need to be able to pretend to have fun make the thing that isn't fun fun. In that level of clarity.

No, no...

We're FSS 'haters', we're very bad people... Our 'fun' isn't important.

(Oh, and we're clearly not gud enough at exploration in ED, because we obviously can't use the FSS, which is why we're making such a fuss about it. )

Come on, get with the program!

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Or you can listen to Baron Freyherr von Karrde Sun, his lies are true evergreens.

Lies? Im still wigging out thinking about Max Factors idea (possibly again). Imagine selecting something from the nav panel and have the fss open up already centered. I would have praised this.

Fill in the gaps yourself tuning and navigating around adaptive zoom scenarios still needs to be done. To grow the idea, what the honk would then do is put targetable blobs in the ship windscreen metaphor, ready to be fssed or proximity scanned. You would select blobs via the hud or entries in the nav panel. That would be exploration.

There wouldn't be any technical issues in drawing because the current fss is rendered over the live space with a deep tint and the ship models removed.. so just undo that and we're back in the ship.

Add in color coding information into the blobs and you're set. As darkfire has mentioned a couple of times, you can already the count via the configuration over the click me circles, so something like that could be promoted up to the blobs. Everyone sorted. Except for in distant multi star systems sure but people can deal with that.

Also if you're not using something its none of your business. Its like saying you have a problem with other ships existing because you're not going to use them. Really? From sysmons posts its not impossible to consider competitive exploration, for tagging at least its meaningful but thinking that just the ads and fss will balance the competition in that regard is not considering the entire process of exploration, its more just picking fights at the tools. There are many other critical aspects not the tools that would be required for this, and the absense of balance there invalidates the competition as much as.... looking at something quicker than your friend while speed looking with them.

If you're travelling for speed too, the last thing you're going to be doing is opening up the system map. You have to turn your ship while the fsd is charging up. Stress if you want to also open the system map and see all the things you're never going to visit.

 

[Riverside]

Shouldn't we be on a level playground though? While your sentiment is understandable, it basically blocks any options for improvement as anything different from the past version is considered intolerable by some.

We had a lot of discussion about the 3 discovery scanners in the beginning, some of those revolving around why we had to navigate and explore using techniques that even today are 1000s of years old. Then we got the unlimited ADS and any hint of game-play involving the actual shipboard instrument was gone.

The game-play came back with the FSS, if in a different form. And the pendulum has swung too far the other way, I will grant that.

S

Here you make a good and relevant point about the discovery process. I don't remember those discussions (I lurked on this forum for years before registering) so a link might actually be helpful for clarity.

However the ADS was in the game for years and was almost universally popular while it was available, there was no justification or benefit to removing that functionality once it had been added, and had it not been added arguably (based on the popularity of the ADS compared to the BDS & IDS before all three were removed) there would be an ongoing demand for the functionality in explored space to be made available galaxy-wide.

To be clear, this is not the sum total of my argument, I am only addressing the points raised in the quoted post.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No. It would increase the ads from one click to hundreds, but giving you a previous detailed scan in replacement. The gameplay turns into what you engage instead of nothing that show takes time and is stupid.

If you added bits and a few extra filters on the nav panel this could work.

Nope, there wouldn't be any gameplay. It would be a one click wonder. It's literally the worst idea ever. I'm so happy you are not on the design team. The game would be shockingly bad.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Here you make a good and relevant point about the discovery process. I don't remember those discussions (I lurked on this forum for years before registering) so a link might actually be helpful for clarity.

However the ADS was in the game for years and was almost universally popular while it was available, there was no justification or benefit to removing that functionality once it had been added, and had it not been added arguably (based on the popularity of the ADS compared to the BDS & IDS before all three were removed) there would be an ongoing demand for the functionality in explored space to be made available galaxy-wide.

To be clear, this is not the sum total of my argument, I am only addressing the points raised in the quoted post.

I'm not sure where your getting the universally popular from. Yes it's far more popular then the BDS and IDS because most hated parallax. But as an exploration tool it was pretty much derided.

 

[Riverside]

I'm not sure where your getting the universally popular from. Yes it's far more popular then the BDS and IDS because most hated parallax. But as an exploration tool it was pretty much derided.

I think you answered your own question there

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think you answered your own question there

So it wasn't universally popular then. Thanks for clarifying. You do know that saying it was more popular then the BDS and IDS doesn't mean it was universally popular. It was just more popular then the other two.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Nope, there wouldn't be any gameplay. It would be a one click wonder. It's literally the worst idea ever. I'm so happy you are not on the design team. The game would be shockingly bad.

How is the fss not a one click wonder? That's the definition of the fss, and what they were screaming from the balcony that the went ahead and built. Every single thing to do with the fss ends up in that one hit grand click that gives all the rewards for exploration without doing anything to get them.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

How is the fss not a one click wonder? That's the definition of the fss, and what they were screaming from the balcony that the went ahead and built. Every single thing to do with the fss ends up in that one hit grand click that gives all the rewards for exploration without doing anything to get them.

You're confusing the honk with the FSS. The FSS is far from a one hit wonder.

You honk, you enter the FSS and you can see the wave forms. It's very difficult to tell what each item is on the wave forms so you need to inspect them to make sure. Straight away the one hit wonder is gone. You then the types of planets in the system. You have no idea how many and no idea where they are in the system.

Unlike the ADS which showed you the precise positions of every object, what every object was and how many of each object there is in the system. And you call the FSS a one hit wonder. I suspect you are living in a fantasy world.

 

[Riverside]

So it wasn't universally popular then. Thanks for clarifying. You do know that saying it was more popular then the BDS and IDS doesn't mean it was universally popular. It was just more popular then the other two.

Read what I wrote Max, not what you think I wrote You agree with what I actually wrote

 

[Riverside]

Can someone please explain the basic functions of the FSS, for all those who apparently only know it from hearsay?

Can't you?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Can someone please explain the basic functions of the FSS, for all those who apparently only know it from hearsay?

Yeah id love to know your take too. Darkfire has explained what she does many times. I've dropped a few hints here and there. Riverside has given up (on the fss). What do you do with it? I'm not sure what max does with it as hes usually angry by that point, but from what i can tell, its dreaming about all the wonders of space and feeling safe that theres no alternative to what hes doing while moving the mouse between blobs.

 

[Riverside]

I feel I should once again point out that I don't have a problem with the FSS, it's not a design classic (as so much of the rest of the game is) but I don't hate it either, it's just turned me into a completion scanner when all I wanted to do was take in the scenery & see what catches my eye ('ooh shiny' moments of distraction).

Whatever benefits the new stuff brings to people, that's not a justification for removing the old stuff, however bland people thought it was.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yeah id love to know your take too. Darkfire has explained what she does many times. I've dropped a few hints here and there. Riverside has given up (on the fss). What do you do with it? I'm not sure what max does with it as hes usually angry by that point, but from what i can tell, its dreaming about all the wonders of space and feeling safe that theres no alternative to what hes doing while moving the mouse between blobs.

I'm not angry. I find it all rather funny to be honest.

As to how I use the FSS, I have done that a number of times. Seems people have extremely short memories.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

You honk, you enter the FSS and you can see the wave forms. It's very difficult to tell what each item is on the wave forms so you need to inspect them to make sure. Straight away the one hit wonder is gone. You then the types of planets in the system. You have no idea how many and no idea where they are in the system.

Well no its very easy. Its dumb af. But i've personally moved on. Theres zero gameplay there, but it does work as a blob filter. The arrows only show up for a smallish range around the tuning, so if you're hunting for a specific type the presence of arrows becomes the filter.

Unlike the ADS which showed you the precise positions of every object, what every object was and how many of each object there is in the system. And you call the FSS a one hit wonder. I suspect you are living in a fantasy world.

Yeah but its like just being a street sign. Looking at a street sign doesn't take you to the destination. You can look at it all day and you haven't gone anywhere, or done anything. Unlike the fss where you click and you're teleported to the land of free tags and credits and detail scan information.. all for the great activity of watching a zoom animation. Amazing gameplay there.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why on earth are you expecting FDev changing their mind just now?

I'm not expecting that

I am expecting Frontier to continue to give exploration as little attention as they've always done. And when they finally do, I expect them to rush any updates like they did with the FSS.

Do you think what anyone of us is posting here has any effect on Frontier's decision making?

It's very difficult to tell what each item is on the wave forms so you need to inspect them to make sure.

Don't worry Max, if you get a little experience with the FSS it becomes ridiculously easy

Can someone please explain the basic functions of the FSS, for all those who apparently only know it from hearsay?

Sure, you honk, throttle down, check the spectro meter, if there's ELW, WW or AW, you tune to that frequency, find the planet in question and zoom in. Then exit the FSS and move on, and call it real instrumental process caring cherry picking exploration heaven.

And it's very difficult as well.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Don't worry Max, if you get a little experience with the FSS it becomes ridiculously easy

No it doesn't.