Open Gun-ports = open for pvp : Pilots federations rule of the duel

[Navigare Necesse Est]

So now its gone from nothing to AI and now randos and then the possibility of PMFs for "intent?"

You do get that PMF space is finite, and give it a year there will be no more space for new PMFs if old ones are not removed?

The BGS is indeed black box, but a great deal of it is well understood.

The BGS algorithms run the thing. Players are just the butterflies providing the little inputs. A random number generator would do the same job, but not as good. And PMFs being finite: I bet there is a fair share of "orphan" PMFs that don't get looked at anymore.
The number of players understanding the BGS fully and fully committing every action to it is surely minuscule. Even I ran the random mission in between when I had done my good day's work for the People.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

It takes mediocre defenses and a few minutes to learn how to escape danger.

Let the dev team focus on new content instead of unnecessary coddling.

 

[A C Ender]

The BGS algorithms run the thing. Players are just the butterflies providing the little inputs. A random number generator would do the same job, but not as good. And PMFs being finite: I bet there is a fair share of "orphan" PMFs that don't get looked at anymore.
The number of players understanding the BGS fully and fully committing every action to it is surely minuscule. Even I ran the random mission in between when I had done my good day's work for the People.

Algorithms decide what happen, but players provide all the input that's measurable. Not just minor, all.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The BGS algorithms run the thing. Players are just the butterflies providing the little inputs. A random number generator would do the same job, but not as good. And PMFs being finite: I bet there is a fair share of "orphan" PMFs that don't get looked at anymore.
The number of players understanding the BGS fully and fully committing every action to it is surely minuscule. Even I ran the random mission in between when I had done my good day's work for the People.

Going from my Powerplay experience, you can't move for PMFs, they pop up (or did until recently) all over and keep on coming. There are lots of orphans, but until you prod them you don't know if anyone is behind the door. FD won't be removing them in any case (or have no plans) so the situation is going one way- congestion and continual friction until it gets to a critical mass where smaller and smaller actions are required to affect neighboring PMFs.

Players do indeed have input- but intent can be anything- sheer greed can push something along just as guided direction. People are always wanting to know how to use the BGS, for mats, money or for PMFs.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Going from my Powerplay experience, you can't move for PMFs, they pop up (or did until recently) all over and keep on coming. There are lots of orphans, but until you prod them you don't know if anyone is behind the door. FD won't be removing them in any case (or have no plans) so the situation is going one way- congestion and continual friction until it gets to a critical mass where smaller and smaller actions are required to affect neighboring PMFs.

Players do indeed have input- but intent can be anything- sheer greed can push something along just as guided direction. People are always wanting to know how to use the BGS, for mats, money or for PMFs.

I argue it's mostly "greed" - players see what's on offer and most take what's best. And the mission generation is run entirely by the game algorithms.

 

[A C Ender]

and stowing your gunports, at the space dock just like the area traffic controller says, is lore friendly, and having them out is NOT tolerated.
And that’s the lores-law.

Destroying someone for just being in your instance because they want to play a game is lore friendly, yes, but it’s still doesn’t stop it from being a duck move, However you want to dress it up, lore or not.

I’ve had team-mates in counterstike who fluffed you their buys at the start of the round, and so executed or wounded his team-mates as he wouldn’t get a good round, so there was no point playing.
That surely is lore? Post-traumatic-stress?


(Spawn-)
Sneak-attacking the enemy ships whilst at base base like pearl harbour, camping out bottlenecks with long range weaponry, like the D-day landings are real life, combat “lore”, but they are still poopooty things to do.

I myself and many others enjoy open,
Like the odd bit of pvp, prefer PvE, might help a faction BGS, or get some power play weapons

In a fantasy world of cut-throats and pirates we are happy to play victim, enjoy playing out Smokey and the bandit or cops and robbers.
As that’s part of the Open life we want to see
more of.

What want to see less off is Camping out the bottle necks of bases and alien-sites and spawn-, trolling and actively griefing other gamers for just playing the same game as you, as those are Duck moves to your fellow gamer,
proper PvP gamers ask,
Proper BGS gamers make their intentions known
Proper PvE gamers ask
Which is also lore friendly.

And the point of getting commanders to take the gun-port rule seriously is to remove the free pass griefers try to hide behind that
“it’s open, it’s lore friendly and the game lets us”,

really then why then is it a crime in game?
PvP,BGS,PvE ask because everyone turns off “report crimes” so any friendly fire or dueling whilst showing off our combat skills (or lack there of in my case) isn’t reprimanded by the lores-law.

If superpower/faction rules of engagement are not in-affect:
Polite mirroring of the opening of gun-ports as a rule of engagement, you don’t have to do it, but to do so, shows respect to your fellow gamer and the Elite dangerous community.

This is a massive tangent, but maybe it will help illustrate why I (and from my reading most who enjoy fighting player ships) don't agree that you need (or even should) ask.

Unless you are the single living organism in existence, every single thing you do will affect another lifeform, positive or negative. You may not see how, but this is(should be) an indisputable fact. Due to this, it's completely unrealistic to expect to ask anyone you affect for permission before you do something.

As a society, we have laws which decide certain things which needs to be asked to certain individuals before you do them. If you don't, you commit a crime. Most of us chose to abide by the laws. But this is a game, and here we can chose to ignore the laws of the game, and suffer the consequences. For some this is fun, for some it is not.

Because it's a game I can choose to play when I want, I accept that some choose to play it differently from how I do. If I were to be affected to the degree where I prefer to do something else with my time, I can choose to do so at any time. So far I haven't. That's not to say that I would choose to have personal nteracting with all individuals who play the game. For example: I find the behaviour of people who choose to knowingly work against your faction in BGS but hide in Solo/PG specifically to avoid any chance of you fighting their ships rude. I accept some do, but I don't like that behaviour.


Also: I've only attacked another command twice: both times opposing PP factions comming to my factions system seemingly with the intent to fight against my supported faction/power.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I argue it's mostly "greed" - players see what's on offer and most take what's best. And the mission generation is run entirely by the game algorithms.

The mission system is reflexive- it requires input to shape the type of missions you see. The only point where it was not was at launch where everything started.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The mission system is reflexive- it requires input to shape the type of missions you see. The only point where it was not was at launch where everything started.

I do think it's under-appreciated - the BGS is a very fine piece of work by FD.

 

[A C Ender]

I do think it's under-appreciated - the BGS is a very fine piece of work by FD.

Doesn't seem like we will agree on other things in this thread, but this is one I fully agree.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Court systems have nothing to do with the BGS. And random people running random missions have nothing to do with adversarial activity.

How many times must I say it?

The BGS is zero sum. Do a mission. It helps a faction to the exclusion of all others. That's an adversarial system.

Do you understand?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

and stowing your gunports, at the space dock just like the area traffic controller says, is lore friendly, and having them out is NOT tolerated.
And that’s the lores-law.

Destroying someone for just being in your instance because they want to play a game is lore friendly, yes, but it’s still doesn’t stop it from being a duck move, However you want to dress it up, lore or not.

I’ve had team-mates in counterstike who fluffed you their buys at the start of the round, and so executed or wounded his team-mates as he wouldn’t get a good round, so there was no point playing.
That surely is lore? Post-traumatic-stress?


(Spawn-)
Sneak-attacking the enemy ships whilst at base base like pearl harbour, camping out bottlenecks with long range weaponry, like the D-day landings are real life, combat “lore”, but they are still poopooty things to do.

I myself and many others enjoy open,
Like the odd bit of pvp, prefer PvE, might help a faction BGS, or get some power play weapons

In a fantasy world of cut-throats and pirates we are happy to play victim, enjoy playing out Smokey and the bandit or cops and robbers.
As that’s part of the Open life we want to see
more of.

What want to see less off is Camping out the bottle necks of bases and alien-sites and spawn-, trolling and actively griefing other gamers for just playing the same game as you, as those are Duck moves to your fellow gamer,
proper PvP gamers ask,
Proper BGS gamers make their intentions known
Proper PvE gamers ask
Which is also lore friendly.

And the point of getting commanders to take the gun-port rule seriously is to remove the free pass griefers try to hide behind that
“it’s open, it’s lore friendly and the game lets us”,

really then why then is it a crime in game?
PvP,BGS,PvE ask because everyone turns off “report crimes” so any friendly fire or dueling whilst showing off our combat skills (or lack there of in my case) isn’t reprimanded by the lores-law.

If superpower/faction rules of engagement are not in-affect:
Polite mirroring of the opening of gun-ports as a rule of engagement, you don’t have to do it, but to do so, shows respect to your fellow gamer and the Elite dangerous community.

It does exactly the opposite.

If you clicked Open Play I'm going to presume you understand the possible ramifications because you have a brain inside your head and know how to use it. If you're innocently ignorant I'll be happy to educate you.

A gank is like a good teasing joke. Sure, it's at your expense but we're laughing with you not at you.

Obstinate protests about what is or isn't proper behavior, especially when they have no teeth beyond draconian shame, are what I and so many other have little patience for.

Pick your mode. Prepare accordingly. Have a blast. Anything else is rubbish.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

How many times must I say it?

The BGS is zero sum. Do a mission. It helps a faction to the exclusion of all others. That's an adversarial system.

Do you understand?

Yes. I just disagree that interpretation.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yes. I just disagree that interpretation.

How so and why? Is the game not programmed this way?

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Yes. I just disagree that interpretation.

It's adversarial even if no other players are involved, in the same way that fighting or escaping an NPC is adversarial.

This is not a game that you can "make" completely harmonious and handholdy, even in solobius.

 

[VR Murgle]

And this is why you're a hypocrite.

You're too kind, But insults aside:

Since there are no meaningful way to interact with the game without having some kind of effect on the BGS and knowing the modes system was by design and the BGS is shared across all modes it thereby follows that all player are allowed to interact with said BGS. Is the BGS adversarial? It sure can be used that way, was it ever meant to be? Judging by the way it's shared across all modes I'd say it wasn't.

The problems with Private and Solo are all too obvious and pretty much inherent to the system. It does not take a genius to predict how the modes can be (ab)used in a "guild vs guild" type of gameplay, so presumably FD didn't anticipate the BGS to be used in this way and they solely meant for it to add some life to an otherwise static galaxy.

I cannot afford to care about player managed factions because if I did my gameplay options would be reduced to zero or as close as makes no difference. As far as I know I play the game in (one of the) ways it was intended so if you take issue with that blame Frontier or get them to explain to me how I got it all wrong. If FD were to somehow find a way for me to have my own private BGS I'd be all for it but as it stands I have no other option.

Without the BGS E: D is just a very pretty chatroom and I have no used for that.

Spoken like someone who has never defended their faction's BGS against hostile players.

I haven't and probably never will. I also haven't attacked a faction. I may have (very likely) been involved in activities that had an effect on a PMF but they we not intentionally against or to the benefit of said PMF because frankly I have no idea who controls what and no inclination to find out. The game allows it therefor I'm allowed, I think that's been the reasoning thus far? If it works for PvP it works for me...

 

[Hanerib]

"Do what thou wilt shall be the law of Tothos. Love is under my will only."

(This holy transmission was hidden behind some old shoes and chocolate bar wrappings. Receiving its spiritual essence requires blowing up an Adder.)

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

I haven't and probably never will. I also haven't attacked a faction. I may have (very likely) been involved in activities that had an effect on a PMF but they we not intentionally against or to the benefit of said PMF because frankly I have no idea who controls what and no inclination to find out. The game allows it therefor I'm allowed, I think that's been the reasoning thus far? If it works for PvP it works for me...

Certainly you're allowed, but the point of my comment is that the BGS can be and very much is a method by which players clash against one another.

 

[VR Murgle]

Certainly you're allowed, but the point of my comment is that the BGS can be and very much is a method by which players clash against one another.

I never denied that, I just do not agree it should be called PvP. The fact that I can used a screwdriver to poke someones eye out doesn't make it a weapon.

 

[Just Paul]

As far as I know I play the game in (one of the) ways it was intended so if you take issue with that blame Frontier or get them to explain to me how I got it all wrong.

So why the negative views about people who explode other player's ships in open? They also play the game as intended and more importantly play within the rules set out by FDev.

As somebody who likes to play in open and recently found out that I really like to explode other players ships I would say:

As far as I know I play the game in (one of the) ways it was intended so if you take issue with that blame Frontier or get them to explain to me how I got it all wrong.

Disclaimer: I mainly like to blow up ships that shoot back and there I have a good chance to get exploded too.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

I never denied that, I just do not agree it should be called PvP. The fact that I can used a screwdriver to poke someones eye out doesn't make it a weapon.

I'm having trouble with this. You don't deny that a certain game mechanic allows players to engage in adversarial gameplay against one another, yet you've dug in against calling it PvP.

Also, using a screwdriver to poke someone's eyeball out very much makes it a weapon. Haven't you ever heard of improvisation?