FSS - my opinion

[marx]

Why is the fuss built into every ship?

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but the reason is quite simple. In the first beta, it wasn't built into every ship. If players' ships had them, the developers converted the three previous Discovery Scanners (B/I/A) to the same Discovery Scanner. They said the intent was that explorers would have to mount that to be able to use the FSS. However, bug reports quickly came in that players can also use the FSS even if they don't have the scanner mounted.
In the next beta update, this bug was "fixed" by removing the module from the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

"Very difficult" are the words you used

edit: tip: I don't know from memory, been a while, but I think there's some wording beneath the spectrometer, you can use them to pin point the specific types. Or mouseover if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I found finding specific planet types dead easy after just an hour playing with the FSS. In any case pretty damn far from very difficult.

Not to use. It's all in the context.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but the reason is quite simple. In the first beta, it wasn't built into every ship. If players' ships had them, the developers converted the three previous Discovery Scanners (B/I/A) to the same Discovery Scanner. They said the intent was that explorers would have to mount that to be able to use the FSS. However, bug reports quickly came in that players can also use the FSS even if they don't have the scanner mounted.
In the next beta update, this bug was "fixed" by removing the module from the game.

This. They basically didn't fix the bug and made it a feature. Not sure I like it though.

 

[Riverside]

Wherever you move the slider on the barcode, the game tells you what body (or signal) type is there, in the bottom right.
So yes, the positions can quickly be memorized, and if you're uncertain, all you need to do is move over there and the game tells you.

By way of comparison, with the old system your decision was based not on a grouping by planet type but a unique icon of what the body actually looks like.

So the new system has a dozen or so types to look for where the old one had infinite variety within a range.

The wave form could be argued to be infinitely complex too, but in comparison to an actual picture of the procedurally generated body it doesn't really keep me engaged. I just smash through the scanning, barely paying any attention to what the results are then look at the system map once it's complete for the actual information I want (what it looks like, is it pretty etc) then go map the thing instead of scanning it as before.

But the FSS is more accessible, it is easier to get started with exploring, but it feels like a bunch of discreet boxes to tick rather than an analogue scale of variety. The actual planets are unchanged of course

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

When you center your tuning marker on a waveform, then bottom right of the screen will tell you exactly what you are looking at.

Wherever you move the slider on the barcode, the game tells you what body (or signal) type is there, in the bottom right.
So yes, the positions can quickly be memorized, and if you're uncertain, all you need to do is move over there and the game tells you.

Yep, that was it. Thx. I remember the game telling you "these are aws!" in some sort of way. Or whatever type you fancy. It just presents them at a platter, nicely labeled and all.

Where the system map could be rather vague at times. And experience could tell you that uninviting mudball could actually be an ELW. The system map had quite a few surprises up it's sleeve.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

By way of comparison, with the old system your decision was based not on a grouping by planet type but a unique icon of what the body actually looks like.

So the new system has a dozen or so types to look for where the old one had infinite variety within a range.

The wave form could be argued to be infinitely complex too, but in comparison to an actual picture of the procedurally generated body it doesn't really keep me engaged. I just smash through the scanning, barely paying any attention to what the results are then look at the system map once it's complete for the actual information I want (what it looks like, is it pretty etc) then go map the thing instead of scanning it as before.

But the FSS is more accessible, it is easier to get started with exploring, but it feels like a bunch of discreet boxes to tick rather than an analogue scale of variety. The actual planets are unchanged of course

This is where I think you go wrong. I hardly ever look at the system map these days, I use the FSS instead for that.

But at the end of the day, it's up to you how you play.

 

[marx]

By way of comparison, with the old system your decision was based not on a grouping by planet type but a unique icon of what the body actually looks like.

Minor note: they aren't icons on the system map, the game renders how the bodies look like and then displays them as if they were viewed from certain conditions.

 

[Riverside]

This is where I think you go wrong. I hardly ever look at the system map these days, I use the FSS instead for that.

But at the end of the day, it's up to you how you play.

Yes you mentioned that earlier in the thread.

I'm not doing it wrong, I just do it differently from you Max. I hope you will respect that distinction, and that I am not trying to take anything away from anyone here.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes you mentioned that earlier in the thread.

I'm not doing it wrong, I just do it differently from you Max. I hope you will respect that distinction, and that I am not trying to take anything away from anyone here.

That's your choice as I said. Whether I think you are doing it wrong is entirely up to me though.

 

[Sysmon]

Here you make a good and relevant point about the discovery process. I don't remember those discussions (I lurked on this forum for years before registering) so a link might actually be helpful for clarity.

However the ADS was in the game for years and was almost universally popular while it was available, there was no justification or benefit to removing that functionality once it had been added, and had it not been added arguably (based on the popularity of the ADS compared to the BDS & IDS before all three were removed) there would be an ongoing demand for the functionality in explored space to be made available galaxy-wide.

To be clear, this is not the sum total of my argument, I am only addressing the points raised in the quoted post.

I don't recall it being universally popular. I recall it being all we had, and that there was some early "what is this?" comments as the ADS was vastly different (and simpler!) than what was discussed during the DDF frenzy. Basically we just sat and waited for the placeholder mechanic to be replaced, as the Discovery Scanner trio at least allowed us to explore the marvel that is the Stellar Forge output.

S

 

[Sysmon]

Me too. About dead things not so much...

I'm a geologist, originally trained in paleontology. I like dead things.

S

 

[Riverside]

I don't recall it being universally popular. I recall it being all we had, and that there was some early "what is this?" comments as the ADS was vastly different (and simpler!) than what was discussed during the DDF frenzy. Basically we just sat and waited for the placeholder mechanic to be replaced, as the Discovery Scanner trio at least allowed us to explore the marvel that is the Stellar Forge output.

S

So among your friends were the BDS & IDS popular? Or did pretty well everyone use the ADS?

 

[Sysmon]

So among your friends were the BDS & IDS popular? Or did pretty well everyone use the ADS?

Not sure about my friends, I'm talking about memories of early postings on this forum. People did seem to like the ADS best, of course. Until it was made infinite range and concerns were raised.

It is a bit funny really, it seem like some really want the FSS gone and the ADS back to get some exploratory uncertainty back into the game. But they really must be a tiny but extremely vocal subset, as there was a massive outcry when uncertainty was introduced with the PoI scanning time fix. Yet it does make sense, because the infinite ADS-system map combo actually removed any uncertainty from the exploration experience. Shame, really, as exploration without uncertainty is just sightseeing. It is just a one-click-buy-map procedure.

Of course we could try to engage in meaningful conservation about how to get the FSS experience to be smoother, including adding functionality to the Discovery Scanner (which could even be a purchasable upgraded Advanced model). But instead one side of the discussion just seem to repeat "want the ADS back!", ensuring the discussion will never be truly fruitful.

Sad really.

S

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Never said the FSS was hard. But it's not easy to tell with a glance from the wave forms the exact planets as the wave forms can be so close to each other. This is in reply to the FSS being a one hit wonder, which it obviously isn't.

Obviously if you dial it in, it's pretty obvious.

But as you move the dial it tells you what sort of worlds you are hovering over. If you over a signal it literally tells you what it is. If you are not over it, then it might show a neighbouring type, but then its easy to see if you are over it.

 

[Sysmon]

But as you move the dial it tells you what sort of worlds you are hovering over. If you over a signal it literally tells you what it is. If you are not over it, then it might show a neighbouring type, but then its easy to see if you are over it.

Isn't there still a bit of overlap in places? Rings changing the signature of ice words especially, and rocky ice worlds having overlap with ELWs? Gas giants with life not being far different from gas giants without?

S

 

[Faded Glory]

Not sure about my friends, I'm talking about memories of early postings on this forum. People did seem to like the ADS best, of course. Until it was made infinite range and concerns were raised.

It is a bit funny really, it seem like some really want the FSS gone and the ADS back to get some exploratory uncertainty back into the game. But they really must be a tiny but extremely vocal subset, as there was a massive outcry when uncertainty was introduced with the PoI scanning time fix. Yet it does make sense, because the infinite ADS-system map combo actually removed any uncertainty from the exploration experience. Shame, really, as exploration without uncertainty is just sightseeing. It is just a one-click-buy-map procedure.

Of course we could try to engage in meaningful conservation about how to get the FSS experience to be smoother, including adding functionality to the Discovery Scanner (which could even be a purchasable upgraded Advanced model). But instead one side of the discussion just seem to repeat "want the ADS back!", ensuring the discussion will never be truly fruitful.

Sad really.

S

I've got to say, I don't see many (if any) people asking for the FSS to be gone. Sure some people don't like it and would prefer either never to have to use it, or to use it less often, to have a choice.

I think that what is being asked for is not the ADS back (although that would likely be the simplest solution for the devs), but for some of the functionality that the ADS (and perhaps nav panel) provided before.

And there are and have been a number of suggestions for 'upgrading' the FSS with optional capabilities, and the optional is I think important for those who particularly enjoy the process of revealing a system body by body so as not to affect their gameplay. I repeated a suggestion that I made in a previous thread in post #175 here in this thread.

And from your other post, no, not an overlap. If however you don't center your tuning marker on a waveform close to where body types change then you can get and incorrect reading.

 

[marx]

Speaking of uncertainty, I've found the thread that @Ziggy Stardust mentioned farther above. It was in last year's January, called a little puzzle.
Note how many people, and not just those relatively new to exploration, still got it wrong. That wouldn't have happened with the FSS, of course: it's faster, one glance and you can know there's an ammonia world in the system for certain.

I called shenanigans on that. The ADS with a few minor changes can work together with the FSS. Players have voiced a concern that you could select a planet in the system map, and then you'd know the location of the planet also in FSS. A simple solution is to make the planets in the system map unselectable. The one thing the developers made clear is that they were not willing to spend any more than the minimum effort on the exploration update. What they made clear is that they we late in delivering the exploration update, and had to cancel the focused feedback round because of that.

Instead of: "we can't please everyone", the correct statement should have been: "In the limited time and resources we were given, it's not possible to make any more changes because we have an update in December. So suck on it".

Just after " HEy Guys! Hewy Guys! Open Only Powerplay Guys!". Yeah, that wasn't an obvious distraction at all, for all the good that little turd grenade achieved.

Hoo boy. Yeah, I had forgotten how bad that was. For context for everyone: Frontier made a proposal that PowerPlay would be Open Only, as in it would practically be limited to Open Play, you couldn't contribute in Private Group / Solo. But that they wanted to hear everyone's opinion on it first before they would commit to such a change. Naturally, it generated a lot of discussion, heated debate, mud-flinging and so on. Now, this was in May 2018 (here) What did Frontier decide on, or do about it? Nothing. They threw the proposal out there, and have left people in uncertainty for nearly two years now.

Yet it does make sense, because the infinite ADS-system map combo actually removed any uncertainty from the exploration experience.

Except the things you didn't recognise, of course. The FSS also removed uncertainty from the exploration experience - see the example above.

Isn't there still a bit of overlap in places? Rings changing the signature of ice words especially, and rocky ice worlds having overlap with ELWs? Gas giants with life not being far different from gas giants without?

Nope. Rings do change signatures a bit (most notably, the white arrows are farther apart), and while it might be easier to mistake some RIWs for ELWs on lower resolutions or smaller-sized screens, if you set the slider precisely(!) on the line, if the game says in the bottom right it's an ELW, then it's an ELW.
Or at least, I've yet to see any proof to the contrary, that any body types would overlap.

It is a bit funny really, it seem like some really want the FSS gone and the ADS back to get some exploratory uncertainty back into the game. But they really must be a tiny but extremely vocal subset,

They really must be tiny, but I'm not sure about extremely vocal, since those who said they want the FSS gone don't seem to have posted here. Most everyone here who's not a 100% fan of it would like there to be new options, not to take away any existing options again.

Of course we could try to engage in meaningful conservation about how to get the FSS experience to be smoother, including adding functionality to the Discovery Scanner (which could even be a purchasable upgraded Advanced model).

Which we have. Some good points came up here, in the first few pages of the thread. There was also this thread a while ago.

But instead one side of the discussion just seem to repeat "want the ADS back!", ensuring the discussion will never be truly fruitful.

And another side just seems to repeat "you're just a hater", and another side is "you are wrong because I say so", and another... You get the picture. It's not black and white.

Either way, the same subject will reappear again and again, until Frontier will finally address the underlying issue.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Note how many people, and not just those relatively new to exploration, still got it wrong. That wouldn't have happened with the FSS, of course: it's faster, one glance and you can know there's an ammonia world in the system for certain.

Nice find. Completely torpedoes the notion the system map is some sort of i-win button. And nicely illustrates what a coward I am for not daring an answer.

I also found this system picture from Sunyavadin recently. The system map shows the interesting bit. I bet 9 out of 10 explorers (me included) couldn't tell from the spectrothingy this is a great system to roam around in. They (we, me included, Darkfyre excluded) would just tag the ringed WW, believe that was the big catch of this system, and move on. Missing out.

 

[Sysmon]

Not me, I wouldn't miss that system. I'm that masochist that does full system scans, especially when exploring uncharted systems. That is where the FSS really shines for me. But I also admit I'm not all too much interested in rare orbital conditions. That I guess is a very special subcategory of exploring, please don't sell it as mainstream or something mandatory for exploring. You can do that, but you are not entitled to get any methods or tools (like the ADS) that will help in picking your cherries faster - even if it was available in the past.

I am interested in orbital oddities as well, and find these using the FSS with not much issue. It's mainly about seeing those clusters of blobs that indicate the bodies are probably in closely related orbits. I do wish there was a direct link from FSS to the orrery, so I can skip the System Map when looking for them.

S

 

[Faded Glory]

Not me, I wouldn't miss that system. I'm that masochist that does full system scans, especially when exploring uncharted systems. That is where the FSS really shines for me. But I also admit I'm not all too much interested in rare orbital conditions. That I guess is a very special subcategory of exploring, please don't sell it as mainstream or something mandatory for exploring. You can do that, but you are not entitled to get any methods or tools (like the ADS) that will help in picking your cherries faster - even if it was available in the past.

I was a completionist system scanner also (I only ever scanned uncharted systems) both under the old system and of course when I used the FSS. I mean why would you not completely scan a system with the FSS? It's so fast and easy, the largest system I scanned was 90 odd bodies and it took a whopping 10 minutes.

But since you mention cherry picking, something that to me is an overstated concern when there are 400 billion systems and only a fraction of 1% of them have been discovered so far (and the game is 5 years old), if players want to cherry pick, why should they not? Even if it's system based cherry picking - there's something in this system I like so I'm going to scan the whole system because I'm a completionist scanner.

So, why should players looking for ELW's as an example be able to cherry pick with great ease, yet players looking for rare orbital conditions or glowing gas giants not?