Hard to call me the whiner when you’re the one accusing others of hurting those feelings.
I’d like more commanders in the Open
- Thread starter Moriarte
- Start date
You can't hide behind 'Whataboutism". I never accused anyone of hurting my feelies. I'm not even sure I have any. Get your house in order. Then peeps and the Devs might listen.
no. that's not valid. How do you find these interested traders? How does the trader know the player is not just hunting them? How does the logistics of any of them occur in a time frame that makes any sense in the game? How does the escort person get paid?
Escort mechanics are completely absent from the game. If they were ever added, they shouldn't be limited to just other human players. We dont need another "multicrew" waste of a feature.
Escort should exist across all modes and not just allow hiring cmdr's but also npcs (either via missions or ad-hoc) and participation should be allowed both as the person being escorted and as an escortee.
Escorting has been a hallmark of these kinds of games across the last 20 years. It's absence is very odd with ED.
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I can only say you have no idea how Wings and Wing Missions work. I'll leave you to address that on your time.
Escorts get paid at the time of the final transaction, by the game. Find some Commander in your Group, you'll need three, plus you. One of them would Cargo ship up, and get a Trade mission, then fill his hold. The group then travels together, for protection, kinda like an escort, to the final destination. If the Trader is hunted by the escort, the mission fails, and you can't trust your freinds, no one gets paid, except if there is any acquired cargo involved after the betrayal.
All of that timing stuff is up to you anyway. FD have given you the tools, use them. No one wants to hold your hand.
You’re implying that “we” don’t have our house in order as if all pvpers are some single hive mind cohesive group and that if elite has mechanics that aren’t functioning or need improved on we can somehow magically change it. Get your own house in order.
Cargo profit sharing is not an escort mechanic.
Wings are not a substitute for escorting.
Escort missions have specific hallmarks :
1. you must remain in proximity to what you are escorting.
2 . your pay has nothing to do with a transaction the escorted ship is doing, it's an agreed upon payment based on hazards for the journey. What they're doing making that journey doesn't matter.
3. Many escort missions are related to military actions and so have no monetary compensation but improve rank or are integral to success of a military exercise, etc.
4. escort missions have a beginning and an end destination that determines success. They're not open ended
Lets pretend that wings is a viable escort mechanic (it's not...but since you want to pretend that I haven't heard of wings before since playing the game since it was launched...lets use our imagination and journey to the alternate reality where fdev's half built garbage is actually fully realized).
Where is the in-game board that allows players to find other humans to advertise that they want an escort ..or players who are offering this service? they have such a thing for multi-crew (kinda), but not wings.
Where is the in-game tools for keeping track of which humans are bad escorts vs good ones?
Where is the in-game tools for letting people know how long you'll need an escort for and when so they're not wasting time trying to find players who match up to their wants / needs?
wings are not escorts. You can pretend they are but I can also pretend that I'm the leader of a multi-system mega corporation ...neither changes the reality of how the game exists, nor how it appears to others, nor how it functions so what you pretend is irrelevant.
edit: and who in the right mind would want such a system for a core game mechanic? Dozens of minutes (probably longer if instancing is an issue) to setup an activity that you could have started already and no guarantee that anyone will stick in the game until the end ...much less any idea on if they wont backstab you or stick to the mission once it does start. I love the multiplayer aspect of the game, but i dont play around other people's schedules and if i want to do something, i'm not waiting half an hour to start it because i have to set things up outside of the game or somehow within it and base it all on the honor system that all that effort wont instantly be wasted. F to the No.
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PvPers and PvEers are in the exact same boat. It's hard to find consensus in such a large and undefined population. But, we PvEers aren't looking to change the game. In this regard PvEers are happy with the status quo. It seems to me that the faction looking for change, should be congering the ideas, not just discarding them because they let people ignore them.
The jist of the message is, bring an idea to the table that doesn't take content away, or force PvP on anyone, and there'll be less reason for people to oppose the idea.
P.S. Your entire retort quoted was just a refined case of Whataboutism, substituting the whine with some clenched fists. It has the same effect as holding your breath, and stamping your feet.
This entire thread is about pve players who dont want pvp while playing in open. (unless you take the OP to simply want a general escort mechanic across all modes available to all players and balanced fairly across wealth/rank etc). it's not about pvp players trying to change the game.
I never mess with open play for this reason, why should I? I have fun in my private group, the wife plays and is super casual. I feel no need to subject myself or especially her to ganking just because people can and makes them feel good because they are bored. Good to see this game can still be fun without PvP aspects!
An Escort mission implies a suspected conflict, and on the whole OP was talking about players pulling players into regular space, that's PvP. I don;t see the OP as you do. Plus, as a thread develops, many side topics and comments turn up. As you get used to the Forums you'll see that the conversation morphs as you go. Everyone steps in and out of the larger conversation as it suits them. Be my guest to do the same.
Facts dont morph though. Either the thread is about wanting escort in the game or it's about PVE players wanting to change the game by altering open mode to suit their gameplay style even though they have Solo and group mode to do that in already. Which contradicts this pretend notion you have that pve players are ok with the status quo. PVP players aren't asking to change how solo works. They're not trying to change how group works.
They would like to improve things in their open mode sometimes, but that doesn't alter the other modes and how they function. If you dont like pvp, dont go in open or be somewhat intelligent when you do and you'll be totally fine.
PVE players can't seem to get that thru their heads.
I find the only time self proclaimed PvErs are happy with the status quo is to turn their noses up at people who enjoy pvp. All of us are PvErs. Everyone.
the ideasI’ve already shown support for dont take content away from anyone. Just because you don’t want to participate in the format doesn’t mean it’s taken from you. Powerplay reworks, more impactful results from the existing mechanics such as bgs, the thargoid invasion. Anything that Gets players to work together directly and also chose a side is what’s needed. Then the PvP happens organically and because the activity has an actual impact on the game world when groups of players focus on a goal, so will the PvP around that activity. that’s what we’re asking for and have already suggested repeatedly. And the thing you seem to miss is the improvements asked for enhance the game for everyone, not just pvpers.
The onus is ultimately on fdev, as there has been no shortage of suggestions over the entire development of this games lifecycle.
I play in open always, it’s fine if you keep your eye on your radar, and learn to emergency drop out of super cruise if anyone is positioning themselves behind you. Fear of open is a bit of a nonsense, I’ve been troubled about 20 times in five years. Be open.
I'm not going to parry with you about what I can and can't say. If you have a problem, let a Mod know, and we;re good.
Open is not delegated to one faction. Any changes requested affect everyone. If PvPers want to lobby for more PvPew, then any PvEer can ask for less PvPew, threads aren't echo chambers. Open isn't for one peeps, and not the other. That isn't hard to understand. That whole idea is just too entitled of a point of view to let go un-commented on.
You're just going to have to get used to being disagreed with. Claiming some kind of control over comments is completely a loosing proposition.
That's right, PvErs get up and type when a proposal includes OO or any other method of forcing PvP on peeps that don;t want it. Obviouso! There is no shortage, PvE or PvP, of suggestions to change stuffs. Do you really think that a 'great' idea that was loved by all, was dropped by the Devs because too many people liked it? Or maybe it was, after they had taken stock of the reaction on the whole, they moved on?
Yeah, I'm going with that one. They moved on...
I have proposed methods to fuse PvP with the BGS/PP. They were rejected. Every idea I've seen floated is either a version of OO or, it is rejected by the PvPers. My advice is to organize, advertize, and mobilize. Get peeps together to use the existing tools, before you go whining about how FD doesn;t love ya.
One guy of a four man wing can tub-up in a whiley trader and be protected by the other three as he delivers goods in a hot spot system. Wing up with some buds and escort a new or needy group member around to the Engineers. I don;t hear much about not being able to crank up a three or four man wing in open. Why do I have to think this stuffs up for ya?
Amen, brother. Preach it.
Oh you don’t have to think it up. There’s no demand for it. Why would anyone go through the trouble of asking for an escort when they can just switch modes? The game eliminates that pathway, that potential play style, from happening organically because it offers ways to entirely circumnavigate the need for it. Therefore people do. Just like Borann. It offers a fast way to progress through the ships, so rather than the way they may actually prefer, they take the easy way.
It’s a flaw in game design, not players.
The thought occurs that if they are in open, maybe, just maybe, this is exactly the content they/we/I are looking for.
In chat, on forum, in a new 'Escort' Discord although that may get some members who aren't interested in Elite so a better name perhaps.
The other Qs, how will you blaclist, get paid etc etc - Yes the current wing payout system works exactly as you describe. The rest is experience, you places your 'trust' and you takes your chances but nobody takes your money until your home and dry. If Im a trader and Im in Open, maybe this is a risk Im prepared to take because, well just because.
So far theres one suggestion, Escorts, which are currently available in Wings, some of us already do it at CGs.
All the PP ideas - funnily enough I started a thread recently after getting attacked by an allied Cmdr. The general consensus was we don't give two hoots about the power, its just for the modules so a ship is a ship is a ship. Fair enough but if the idea is to use that for PVP and then it doesn't get used in the 'expected' way then why develop it further? Seems like the people who ask for it don't engage but instead set out to ruin it, whatever it is.
There you go with this absolute words again, theres 'no' demand for it - on a thread about the demand for it.
PP needs further development exactly because it doesn’t get used in the intended way. It’s broken/poorly implemented and needs to correction. It’s a target player base that can be grown if given some attention.
I use direct and definitive language. Over 10 years of career where it’s necessary and it’s not gonna change for the elite forums. But surely the fact he has to come to the forums indicated that the game is not encouraging it to happen organically.