Indeed it does
Elite IS too easy
- Thread starter Cheese Helmet
- Start date
Ive spent almost 10bil on ships and outfitting but somehow only have 900mil in total assetsWho said anything about mining?
yes, which is why we have this unending whine in the forum at the moment. People have had it too easy for too long. Here’s finally something that will be a challenge to make work, and people lose their minds over it...
I'm not sure a couple of hours in Borann really counts as a challenge, nor do I think that encouraging long stints in Borann or wherever replaces it doing easy yet lucrative tasks for several hours to facilitate timed voyages into the black introduces real difficulty. Just tedium and a tether to whatever the day's moneymaking pit is.
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My point is, though, that these actions should (by logic) be restricted to certain systems; furthermore, if we want to insert some roleplaying and "realism"*, there must be a motive for attacks, one beyond "That dude uses a DC, therefore I smite him!" I mean, don't be lazy, at least find a good, convincing reason . . . and since religion is out (at least as far as I understand Elite lore), something else needs to be found.
*a buzzword, admittedly. We can only try to predict how a society develops in a hundred years -- a thousand is a stretch. However, given that not all systems are bound to be self-sufficient, violence, particularly against those providing vital goods, would likely be seen as abominable. As a matter of fact, a society where violence is commonplace, even desired, cannot function; it will disintegrate.
I have read times and again that Elite should be more "dangerous," a cut-throat-galaxy, but the very same people do not (or at least not to my satisfaction) explain WHY that should be the case. Why would people who have conquered the stars behave like bloodthirsty barbarians? There MUSt be a satisfactory reason for that, one that goes beyond "because I can." THIS would be a prime role-playing opportunity. Those just blasting others "because they can" do themselves a disservice.
Call me a spoilsport, but this would be a classic case of trying to have your cake and eat it: Having fun at other people's expense, while not even pretending to stick to the lore. (I've said it before, I'll say it again: the number of people who commit acts of violence on others, out of reasons inexplicable by common sense, is extremely low. The vast majority of these are either religious fanatics, or they are mentally disturbed. Tertium non datur, i.e., there is no third. The fact that this is a game is a weak excuse, as many players demand a more realistic approach -- which this behaviour kicks in the unmentionables.)
In anarchies, pirates would be scouring the tradelanes -- and pirates go for booty. Blasting ships to smithereens is bad for business. Even the pirates of Boskone didn't do that, and they were the agents of a different philosophy (E.E."Doc"Smith, The Galactic Patrol. Good read. Epub's dirt-cheap, no excuse not to buy it.)
i agree.
i love to do PvE in videogames, and i enjoy Pve in this game because is fun.
Like other mmorpg, when you pve, i usually grind, but in every game theres a difficult scales, from liv1 to liv CAP, you always have to fight with tons of poor npc, but also tons of skilled npc. i means boss, dungeon npc, etc.
In elite we miss that, cause galaxy is more a simulated real life enviroment and have no much sense put something similar.
BUT Veteran player need challenge. i need some creeopy pve challenge, to do in wing with other 3 veterans and really risk our ship, not only in a pvp contest.
Hazardous res are easy, always 1vs1 non modded npc with my g5 maxed combat ship, some time some npc in wing but nothing special.
Conflict Zone are easy, theres lot of ships more harder to kill then res, but my g5 fully modded vette or cutter can easily win every battle without lose more than 2 shield rings, only pvp presence can trick my experience.
Again, theres tons of mission really really easy to do, simple with a sidewinder if you want, like shut down the generator, recover a black box, hack some data panel, destroy some skimmer in srv, a veteran player can do all that with one hand only.
Powerplay pve is a grindfest of nave beacon dropp and wake for hours, no skills required, just patience.
Pirating npc is broken, theres a ticket about from 3 months, but fdev seems dont care about, now if you found some mining ship npc with mining laser etc, they simply dont carry valuable minerals. Black marketing with tons of scrap isnt funny, anyway, stole npc cargo was so easy in past.
This game need more PVE risk.
I dont know if possible, but some zone to fight against, for example, elite npc with MODDED ship, wings of npc really good (modded cutter, vette, fdl , etc) to do with friends, something CHALLENGE to do for stay in a minimun of MMORPG enviroment.
i love to do PvE in videogames, and i enjoy Pve in this game because is fun.
Like other mmorpg, when you pve, i usually grind, but in every game theres a difficult scales, from liv1 to liv CAP, you always have to fight with tons of poor npc, but also tons of skilled npc. i means boss, dungeon npc, etc.
In elite we miss that, cause galaxy is more a simulated real life enviroment and have no much sense put something similar.
BUT Veteran player need challenge. i need some creeopy pve challenge, to do in wing with other 3 veterans and really risk our ship, not only in a pvp contest.
Hazardous res are easy, always 1vs1 non modded npc with my g5 maxed combat ship, some time some npc in wing but nothing special.
Conflict Zone are easy, theres lot of ships more harder to kill then res, but my g5 fully modded vette or cutter can easily win every battle without lose more than 2 shield rings, only pvp presence can trick my experience.
Again, theres tons of mission really really easy to do, simple with a sidewinder if you want, like shut down the generator, recover a black box, hack some data panel, destroy some skimmer in srv, a veteran player can do all that with one hand only.
Powerplay pve is a grindfest of nave beacon dropp and wake for hours, no skills required, just patience.
Pirating npc is broken, theres a ticket about from 3 months, but fdev seems dont care about, now if you found some mining ship npc with mining laser etc, they simply dont carry valuable minerals. Black marketing with tons of scrap isnt funny, anyway, stole npc cargo was so easy in past.
This game need more PVE risk.
I dont know if possible, but some zone to fight against, for example, elite npc with MODDED ship, wings of npc really good (modded cutter, vette, fdl , etc) to do with friends, something CHALLENGE to do for stay in a minimun of MMORPG enviroment.
I agree entirely with the first part, and I'm not sure why you think I see it differently to be honest.
Then lower down I get a bit lost: as far as respecting the lore and role play, I would agree there as well, but it doesn't seem very relevant to the point the OP has made i.e. that Elite is too 'easy'. The main problem is that 'easy' could mean a lot of things, but I think it is fairly obvious that NPCs are no threat to the more experienced players - why is that wanting to have your cake and eat it?
All I want is some kind of missions that even wing of fully engineered Vettes and Cutters would have a difficult time with.
The entire game doesn't need to be more difficult but it's a bit ridiculous that I can solo wing missions in my Chieftain.
The entire game doesn't need to be more difficult but it's a bit ridiculous that I can solo wing missions in my Chieftain.
All they need to do is spawn NPCs with a level of engineering similar to the player, I can't see why this should be difficult technically or in any way forcing your playstyle on others. Every player has their own instance if they are in solo anyway.
All I want is that the weird "opt-in danger" is removed. If I go to a war torn system it should feel like it and not: "Oh look another CZ over there. I just puddle around a little and then do some trade with both conflicting factions. I need to keep my rep up for all that juicy missions." Same with Thargoids, the Pleiades and Witch Head Sector should feel like being under siege. No more just cruising by the NHSS and doing business as usual. The hyperdictions are fun for the first 3-5 times, but then it gets boring as it's always the same. Let them attack randomly, so a fast tanky ship is needed to do business in that parts of the galaxy. Same for having a huge bounty or being hostile to the system's controlling faction. It should be difficult to move around the system once discovered. Or a trader going to an anarchy system, if they weren't in an armed and hardened tradeship it should be hard to even make it to the station. Mission payouts should be adjusted with that danger in mind. So you can trade, bounty hunt, or do other things in high-sec systems far away from war and bugs and be "safe". You would get paid less compared to running the same missions into a warzone, Anarchy, or bug infested system. Danger is still opt-in, but now it would be by making the right travel choices and not jumping into signal sources.
Not entirely satisfactory. I don't enjoy combat, so bluntly I use engineering to make sure I can shrug off NPC pirates. Boosted shields and efficient turreted weapons; I just press the fire button and wait for the pirate to explode.
Maybe this isn't intended in which case FD might favour your suggestion, but it would definitely change my playstyle. Probably also give me a nudge to try a different game.
You would also have an unintended consequence: in PvE play most engineering would become pointless (maybe apart from jump range), thus magnifying the gap between PvE and PvP builds even more.
So what you're saying is that the whole game needs to be so easy that you can make a minimal effort to play.
Here's a fun fact, there are other people that play the game besides yourself and many of them enjoy challenging gameplay.
If you really don't enjoy combat all you need is a passable skill at winnning interdictions, and if you do lose one, some decent shields, for which G1 level engineering would suffice.
This. It still would be opt-in, as you can chose to go to the pleiades, but actually dangerous.
Imagine that, I was coordinator and hauler for Operation Ida for nearly half a year in the Pleiades Nebula, and I succesfully destroyed several Cyclops interceptors alone. How often was I hyperdicted? Zero. When I don't opt-in, they leave me alone. That's stupid.
Conversely if it became to hard for your taste I can offer you the same suggestion then?
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No, that's not what I said.
The suggestion I replied to was to make NPCs have the same level of engineering as the player.
Captain Pugwash thought that this wouldn't actually affect anyone's playstyle.
I pointed out that it would at least affect mine, and would have the unintended consequence of making PvE engineering mostly pointless, thus increasing the PvE/PvP divide.
I acknowledged the possibility that FD might not decide to continue supporting my playstyle.
How they can enjoy challenging game play, i thought point of OP is that there is no challenge in this game?
All this talk to make elite dangerous by removing "opt-in" danger in current form is all cool and fun but
1) Obviously not everyone will like it therefore some portion of players would quit. Surely thats not what fdev (or any dev) wants. Given how big mobius pg is i guess there are lot of people who want to relax among stars, not pew pew.
2) do u enjoy being interdicted during mission run? Do multpile mission runs for few days and we will see if u still love 4 interdictions per SC trip. Surely some ppl here wanted to keep opt-in (danger in pleiades & anarchy) but then ppl would complain that there are too many high sec systems and danger is optional etc.
Also sooner or later people would master new threat level and would get bored by repeated, identical, PvE attacks. Just like now with interdictions.
1. So now we would have omg, this war state sys again, oh i die, as usual when i forget to apply filter to router. booooring.
Side note: when in war system, u can be interdicted by military for inspection. I giess this is what u want to have, just multiplied?
2. Now u will have hyperdictions galore as as fdev will quickly run out of ideas and time to prepare all sorts of diffrent events that would disturb player (like inter and hyper dictions). Anyway ppl will get bored eventually.
3. So basicaly u want to make engineering obligatory for PvE.
Yup, so to summarize, difficulty shouldn't be POI's that players can largly ignore, but fully linked to the system and the state of the system, so by entering the system a completely random event, such as thargoid attack/pirate attack/system security attack would happen. That would be good for repurcussions for alignment in Powerplay as well would it not?
First of all, it leaves a bad taste if you cut the other parts out of my post to suit your narrative.
1. Yes, why should I be cruising around in a war system and don't have consequences? Then pulled for inspection and the scan finds that you carry stuff (missions) and/or have a high rep with the opposing faction you should get attacked. As it's mostly small ships you should be good to escape. Plus it's your fault for not applying the filter, not the games.
2. It's already hyperdiction galore in the Pleiades last time I was there, the only difference now is you lose some time and fuel. Super boring after a few and the actual hyperdiction is really awesome made. And if you get bored go do stuff somewhere else, it's a big galaxy, even the bubble is big enough for not seeing other players for days. It can't be more boring than running min/max cargo from a to b with Netflix on the side or mining.
To give you an idea. The Gnosis was awesome. First time you couldn't escape the buggers and you had to deal with them right there. I lost a few 100mil of explo data and still loved the event.
3. No engineering needed if you don't go to the more "dangerous" systems. Also most stuff you can escape with a well build, but not engineered ship. Just the min/maxers would have an issue. Same with naughty pilot's going to "save" systems would be not a cakewalk, but you cut that part out of my post.
If I recall correctly from some other posts you want high sec to mean something and no adverse player interactions should be possible in that systems. So what's the difference? Consequences for all or only the ones you don't play like you like?
It wouldn't be random as the state would dictate what type of danger could be expected. Do to rng you could be good one time and the next a horde of bugs attacks you, if it's a Thargoid infested system for example. Powerplay and superpower alignment should also have an influence on what will happen. All what is asked for is that the choices a player makes have some meaning and that the meanings are not opt-in by going to an USS.
Indeed that's what I meant, by "random" I mean at anytime and could be any combination of attackers (once again depending on the severity of the state of the system and some other factors like how notorious the player pirate is in a high sec system) but the attackers should make sense. I think I could get on board with the idea but hi sec systems HAVE to be dangerous for seal clubber types.
I certainly think so. It would largely improve pve as a whole I believe, as well as make bgs efforts more felt, and power play too