Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle

Hans_Oktane

H
Hi, so i’ve been playing ED for two weekends in Open and on PS4.

Love the game. Reminds me of my Eve days without coercing me into giving up all my free time.

However I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.

Despite this I totally understand players that are less inclined to “getting ganked” shying away from Open.

Easy fixes we can debate about (because we probably will):

-Remove insurance, when a ship pops, it’s gone, including engineering and ship modules.

Why: gives worth to your money, opens up “cheap builds”, deters wannabe pirates from just throttling newbies and haulers with the risk of loss added.


-Separate economies and Powerplay from each game mode.

Why: it’s simply ridden with exploits and caters to people who want everything easy and punishes people who want immersion and challenge.

Also Why: would decrease server loads because Solo can run a clientside market and PP, where they can then focus a majority of their server base on both open and private sessions without mixing and destroying the cores of the game with Copouts of switching modes to avoid confrontation or competition. (It’s on the ropes of exploitative)


-And finally, give us the ability to make money payments to each other, but only in our respective modes with our respective characters. Hate that you get ganked for your cargo? That’s because pirates can’t actually be pirates. If you lock someone down and they pay you and you let them go, congratulations, you are a successful pirate that has a retained honor for his profession.

Currently you have the ability to destroy your cargo so the natural move of a pirate is to kill you. Also gives worth to the cargo scanner thingy, because currently is a useless module.



Don’t take it completely to heart, like I said I love the game, and the community is badass (at least the ones I meet, haven’t seen another pilot in days) but from an outside perspective, this game won’t go anywhere even with updates unless it fixes its roll, and i know they have the ability to do it.

Thanks for reading my rant, don’t slap the good side of my face with replies 😘😂
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
Insurance could cover the basic costs of a stock-standard ship similar to the one lost (minus a fee). I'm all for losing engineering mods upon destruction. That will require a bit of a re-jig of the engineering system though.

:D S
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Other players are optional in this game, by design - which means that PvP is optional. The same design offers each player the ability to experience and affect the single shared galaxy state. Every player either backed or bought the game with these features in place - and the debate around the three game modes sharing a single galaxy state started long before the console players were added to the existing shared galaxy (without the possibility of cross-play), about the time that early backers realised that other players would not have to play with them to affect the game.

Frontier have been clear that they will not split the galaxy, nor remove the effects of players in Solo and Private Groups from it - and they are aware that not all players will agree with their stance. The game design was published over seven years ago and, comparatively recently, Frontier reiterated their stance, i.e. the BGS is for all players, on all platforms and in all game modes. Players who prefer Open have no more, or less, entitlement to affect the single shared galaxy state than players in the other two game modes.

The only feature that Frontier would seem to even consider possibly making Open only or applying an Open bonus to is Powerplay - the Flash Topic of May'18 made that clear. We await the result of Frontier's deliberations regarding which of the proposals in the Flash Topic may be implemented.

While one Dev has indicated that the majority of players play in Open, with Solo and Private Groups also enjoying "significant portions" of the player-base, another Dev has stated that Frontier are "well aware" that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP.

.... and in-flight credit transfer would lead to extortion of empty targets - by players in ships that would not need to compromise their combat build in any way - as they would not need to fit cargo racks.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
This debate has gone on since launch.

The problem is that some people can't handle the idea that there are people who don't want to play with them.

There is a semi-solution that you noted, provide seperate servers. A PvE server and a PvP server.

You think that will shut up those who are complaining the loudest? I doubt it. For a start, they would demand that the PvP server is consider the "real" server in all FD stories/materials, that what happens in the PvE server doesn't matter. They will complain that there is hardly anyone playing on the PvP server, that they can't find people to fight (or at least people they can't attack without risk of getting killed), because if we are being realisitc, the population of the PvE server will massively outweigh that of the PvP one. And a portion of the vocal ones will be on the PvE servers trying to find ways to kill people there that get past any anti-PvP mechanics that FD were to add. (like in GTA, people get around passive mode by causing cars near to people in passive mode to blow up, thereby killing the other person).
 

Ganogati

Ganogati
Now that PSN supports cross-play, and of course XBox does, FDev should really annoy folks by making a new, fresh-start Cross-Play Server that is 100% PvE only =D Leave the current "open" on PC, PSN and XBox as the PvP servers.

Whooooooooooo boy you wanna talk about some tears being shed. It would be the forum version of Noah's flood.
 

Cheese Helmet

Cheese Helmet
Hans_Oktane said:
Hi, so i’ve been playing ED for two weekends in Open and on PS4.

Love the game. Reminds me of my Eve days without coercing me into giving up all my free time.

However I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.

Despite this I totally understand players that are less inclined to “getting ganked” shying away from Open.

Easy fixes we can debate about (because we probably will):

-Remove insurance, when a ship pops, it’s gone, including engineering and ship modules.

Why: gives worth to your money, opens up “cheap builds”, deters wannabe pirates from just throttling newbies and haulers with the risk of loss added.


-Separate economies and Powerplay from each game mode.

Why: it’s simply ridden with exploits and caters to people who want everything easy and punishes people who want immersion and challenge.

Also Why: would decrease server loads because Solo can run a clientside market and PP, where they can then focus a majority of their server base on both open and private sessions without mixing and destroying the cores of the game with Copouts of switching modes to avoid confrontation or competition. (It’s on the ropes of exploitative)


-And finally, give us the ability to make money payments to each other, but only in our respective modes with our respective characters. Hate that you get ganked for your cargo? That’s because pirates can’t actually be pirates. If you lock someone down and they pay you and you let them go, congratulations, you are a successful pirate that has a retained honor for his profession.

Currently you have the ability to destroy your cargo so the natural move of a pirate is to kill you. Also gives worth to the cargo scanner thingy, because currently is a useless module.



Don’t take it completely to heart, like I said I love the game, and the community is badass (at least the ones I meet, haven’t seen another pilot in days) but from an outside perspective, this game won’t go anywhere even with updates unless it fixes its roll, and i know they have the ability to do it.

Thanks for reading my rant, don’t slap the good side of my face with replies 😘😂
Click to expand...
I’ve suggested no more rebuys, or rebuy that scales with tour total assets, so noobs get a normal one but it becomes more and more expensive as your assets increase until you have no more rebuy available.

got told “wHy dO u WaNt HaRd mOdE? jUsT aLwAyS uSe A sIdEy” and other nonsense. Good idea, but people don’t like change.

seperate galaxy states would nice, but as I’m sure some blue names will point out that goes against the “shared galaxy” which is admittedly a key aspect of the game. Ultimately powerplays issues run deeper than that too, and it will never live up to its potential if it’s ball and chained as it currently is.

Agree with your overall sentiment though
 

Cheese Helmet

Cheese Helmet
Ganogati said:
Now that PSN supports cross-play, and of course XBox does, FDev should really annoy folks by making a new, fresh-start Cross-Play Server that is 100% PvE only =D Leave the current "open" on PC, PSN and XBox as the PvP servers.

Whooooooooooo boy you wanna talk about some tears being shed. It would be the forum version of Noah's flood.
Click to expand...
Lol well yeah that would make the entire point of crossplay open irrelevant.
 

Ganogati

Ganogati
Cheese Helmet said:
got told “wHy dO u WaNt HaRd mOdE? jUsT aLwAyS uSe A sIdEy” and other nonsense. Good idea, but people don’t like change.
Click to expand...

It's not me who's wrong, it's the world!

That's not what this game is. It's a fine idea for another game that was designed from the ground up, and advertised to be, a hardcore PvP oriented game. Elite Dangerous is not that game, nor will it ever be. "People don't like change" is an understatement when the change you are proposing takes the current game, throws it out the window and tries to turn it into a completely different game. That's not what they paid money for, that's not what they've devoted god knows how many hours to grind for, and that's not what they wanted when they joined the game. To essentially say "We're going to change the entire foundation of what Elite Dangerous is, and anyone who doesn't like it can leave" is definitely going to spew such "nonsense" as "But that's not the game that I bought!" or "Why do we have to change ED into a completely different game 7 years into its lifespan?" Silly arguments, I know, but folks do tend overreact a bit at such things.
 

House0fDerp

H
Hans_Oktane said:
However I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.
Click to expand...

Solo and PG are part of the regular game. Of course they affect the regular game. They were made as a part of it.

Hans_Oktane said:
Despite this I totally understand players that are less inclined to “getting ganked” shying away from Open.

Easy fixes we can debate about (because we probably will):

-Remove insurance, when a ship pops, it’s gone, including engineering and ship modules.

Why: gives worth to your money, opens up “cheap builds”, deters wannabe pirates from just throttling newbies and haulers with the risk of loss added.
Click to expand...

It also makes solo by far the best place for casual fun with engineered builds and/or expensive ships. Making loss hurt more makes the loss averse less likely to take risks, not more.

Hans_Oktane said:
-Separate economies and Powerplay from each game mode.

Why: it’s simply ridden with exploits and caters to people who want everything easy and punishes people who want immersion and challenge.

Also Why: would decrease server loads because Solo can run a clientside market and PP, where they can then focus a majority of their server base on both open and private sessions without mixing and destroying the cores of the game with Copouts of switching modes to avoid confrontation or competition. (It’s on the ropes of exploitative)
Click to expand...

This is a terrible idea so long as modes can be switched and assets maintained. Locally run economies are like asking for game manipulation.

Also no, running the game with the options presented as they were intended to be used is not an exploit.
 
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