Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle

[Bigmaec]

Just FYI, Elite uses combination of two networking models. For BGS stuff like markets, system states, for discoveries in exploration, it's client-server interaction.
But for direct interactions between players, like flying in vicinity, shooting each other, etc - it's peer-to-peer networking, almost without any participation from ED servers. Consequently:

• Player A can extremely easily to cheat any game mechanics, like making his own shields infinite
• FDev tried to fight against it via reports+shadowbanning, but cheaters began massively making shields of their opponents infinite and immediately reporting them. After a lot of innocent players banned because of being framed in such a manner, FDev just gave up on counteracting cheaters
• Interaction with with servers goes over TCP, while the P2P connections between players rely on UDP. So anyone can easily just block UDP protocol for Elite client, and play in Open, being still fully "isolated" from other players, like if he was in Solo
• Having no any experience in game networking before (and free resources for much networking R&D, i suppose), FDev still didn't come up with anything (even just ideas) to resolve mentioned above issues, and is still even unable to identify all those cheats and tricks reliably, even when they are reported. Not speaking about prevention from doing them.
• Taking into account P2P over UDP specifics, it's actually close to impossible to counteract cheaters efficiently even theoretically, and FDev will never switch back to full client-server model, like Eve, all above mentioned problems will never be solved.

So, taking all of that into account, that

• fully-engineered ship takes ~2-3 months of average player efforts
• gankers/griefers destroy player ships "just for fun" in a few seconds, and they often use cheats
• unlike Eve, in ED you have no possibilities to avoid gankers if they noticed you
• but again, you can use your own "cheats" like firewall block, to avoid gankers even in Open

Do you still think that your ideas aare viable?

What you wrote is technically possible I guess, but I've yet to hear about innocent players banned. Care to provide evidence?
Also please provide evidence gankers often use cheats & please reconsider your wording about avoiding gankers.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

LOL, I love how this is coming from a new player who hasn't done any engineering yet Trust me man, you'll want to keep those modules.

There was talk about making PP open-only a while back, but that never went anywhere.

Yeah, I initially tried an Isinona like ironman playstyle, but quickly realised having to spawn back in LHS 3447 or whichever your starting system is when you decline the rebuy payment is way too much of a faff when you were in the middle of something else. I might give it another try but it sounds better on paper (or heavily edited Youtube videos) as opposed to when you have to do it yourself. Travelling back to the place you got destroyed because reasons in a Sidey that jumps <10ly isn't that much fun.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

We simply never had. Nothing of that.

I highly doubt New Era would move to some dedicated Server model and i.e. with monthly subs and increased Instance sizes.
I guess even then there'd still be people complaining.

Plenty of games have dedicated servers without subscription models. But yes I’m aware we’ve never had that in elite

 

[Linnunrata]

But yes I’m aware we’ve never had that in elite

That's probably the biggest obstacle - would it be cost-effective enough to redesign the game to solve this issue or "issue"? I'm guessing no. Maybe in Elite 2.

 

[Siobhan]

Maybe in Elite 2.

Elite 5, surely?

 

[Robert Maynard]

That's probably the biggest obstacle - would it be cost-effective enough to redesign the game to solve this issue or "issue"? I'm guessing no. Maybe in Elite 2.

It depends on who would be expected to pay for something that is not a necessity in a game where PvP is an optional extra that is apparently eschewed by a majority of the player-base.

.... this is "Elite 4" - and DBOBE has previously stated that he does not expect there to be a sequel to this one.

 

[Linnunrata]

Elite 5, surely?

Heh, yeah, that was too lazy, I meant E2.

 

[BDelacroix]

"hide"?

Yes, It is a word used as an attempt to shame those who don't agree.

 

[Linnunrata]

DBOBE has previously stated that he does not expect there to be a sequel to this one.

Was this some early days commentary? I suppose that can mean two things - a naming convention where full rehaul doesn't change the title or the end of the saga after the engine grows too old.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Was this some early days commentary? I suppose that can mean two things - a naming convention where full rehaul doesn't change the title or the end of the saga after the engine grows too old.

When I went looking for it I found this from 2018 - which admittedly does not completely rule out a sequel.

The engine is Frontier's own - and is, I expect, updated on a regular basis.

 

[Arvel Yael]

Im going to start a thread. It will be me posting the original version of that image. Someone downloads it and posts it again. Someone downloads the 2nd post and and makes a 3rd post. Continue until the image is so degraded its unrecognizable.

It is already being disseminated through the wider ED community .

 

[ZeroAi]

I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.

Honestly, I'd feel cheated if the game was changed to force me into a PvP only Galaxy, since the game I bought multiple copies of promised me Solo and PG options.

That said, I really don't care if Open's economy is made separate from Solo and PG, but I don't think Power Play should be taken away from people who were promised they could access that mode in Solo and PG.

o7

 

[Linnunrata]

The engine is Frontier's own - and is, I expect, updated on a regular basis.

Aye, of course, I'm just curious how possible it really is to do drastic rework on engine level while staying live.

I of course haven't been here from the beginning, but the game doesn't look that different from what it was in 2015 and while it all looks entirely passable now at 2020, it's a good question where we will be technologywise in late 2020s.

 

[Old Duck]

Hi, so i’ve been playing ED for two weekends in Open and on PS4.

[...]

However I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.

"Hiding" in Solo is the only choice any PS4 player has who can't afford the yearly multiplayer tax.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

 

[Cheese Helmet]

That's probably the biggest obstacle - would it be cost-effective enough to redesign the game to solve this issue or "issue"? I'm guessing no. Maybe in Elite 2.

Yeah if it doesn’t happen with new era which is supposed to be some grand thing, then I won’t think it would have the possibility of happening till elite 2:salt boogaloo

 

[Cheese Helmet]

It is already being disseminated through the wider ED community .

That’s some MySpace age stuff

 

[LanceLord]

Hi, so i’ve been playing ED for two weekends in Open and on PS4.

Love the game. Reminds me of my Eve days without coercing me into giving up all my free time.

However I feel cheated with people who hide in Solo or Private Party Mode and still affect the regular game’s economy and PP.

Despite this I totally understand players that are less inclined to “getting ganked” shying away from Open.

Easy fixes we can debate about (because we probably will):

-Remove insurance, when a ship pops, it’s gone, including engineering and ship modules.

Why: gives worth to your money, opens up “cheap builds”, deters wannabe pirates from just throttling newbies and haulers with the risk of loss added.


-Separate economies and Powerplay from each game mode.

Why: it’s simply ridden with exploits and caters to people who want everything easy and punishes people who want immersion and challenge.

Also Why: would decrease server loads because Solo can run a clientside market and PP, where they can then focus a majority of their server base on both open and private sessions without mixing and destroying the cores of the game with Copouts of switching modes to avoid confrontation or competition. (It’s on the ropes of exploitative)


-And finally, give us the ability to make money payments to each other, but only in our respective modes with our respective characters. Hate that you get ganked for your cargo? That’s because pirates can’t actually be pirates. If you lock someone down and they pay you and you let them go, congratulations, you are a successful pirate that has a retained honor for his profession.

Currently you have the ability to destroy your cargo so the natural move of a pirate is to kill you. Also gives worth to the cargo scanner thingy, because currently is a useless module.



Don’t take it completely to heart, like I said I love the game, and the community is badass (at least the ones I meet, haven’t seen another pilot in days) but from an outside perspective, this game won’t go anywhere even with updates unless it fixes its roll, and i know they have the ability to do it.

Thanks for reading my rant, don’t slap the good side of my face with replies

Another complaining about the complainers thread

And yet again, you as a pro PvP minded gamer, have completely missed the point.

Other people playing this game IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR PVP MINDED GAME STYLE. It's NOT about PvE players like me being "less inclined to 'getting ganked' shying away from Open." It's about how I want the rules of my gaming universe to be whenever I play. Ideally with ZERO players and 100% NPCs. And in those times when I'm feeling more social and/or wish to be around other Cmndrs, I only wish to play with LIKE MINDED PvE gamers like myself. So I can enjoy supporting other players in community/social events/groups exploring, trading and doing collaborative wing combat missions in the galaxy.

And I do this with the acceptance I will be potentially interdicted/attacked etc. by the occasional hostile NPC criminal/pirate/opposing PP faction etc. But unlike playing against other players, said combative NPC interaction events occur because the NPCs FOLLOW THE RULES in the ED universe. i.e.
They DO NOT spam my comm channel with toxic, griefing/harrassing messages. If I'm successfully interdicted, then both criminal and law abiding NPCs DO NOT proceed to attack and destroy my ship (regardless of size) if their scans indicate I'm carrying nothing of value in my cargo bay. They're also NOT that desperate enough to attempt jumping into witch space to follow your escape vector. Or slyly keep ramming my ship in the no fire zone, because they know they can get away with doing this as players are waiting in the queue to dock at the station.

The best point is, if an enemy NPC is on the loosing end due to poor combat skill, they don't jump on 3rd party channels OUTSIDE THE GAME the likes of Discord etc. to keep calling in reinforcments of their ganker crew buddies located several light years away. They also DO NOT waste their time coming on here in this forum to complain about the lack of social interaction they're experiencing in the game. Because apparently most players are opting not to play in Open for the very toxic reasons I mentioned above. Anyhow, the list is endless with the toxic behavior from real players.

TL DR I guess I've completely failed at understanding the logic of your complaining post OP.

 

[Brrokk]

 

[Ian Skippy]

The problem is that some people can't handle the idea that there are people who don't want to play with them.

No, the problem as OP clearly explains is that people who don't play in Open still influence Open. What you make of that is up you you, but willfully misrepresenting a very simple argument just to make you feel better about the mode you chose in a computer game is rather lame.

The problem isn't that people can't see you. The problem is that they can still smell you.