ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement

[VR CobraCommander]

I was really hyped when I saw the Odyssey trailer. Then, as a VR player I saw the doubts being raised about VR support. I thought no worries, FDev would be crazy to drop one of the best features of ED. Shortly after that the bombshell went off, no VR.
That hyped feeling evaporated instantly.

As a LEP owner since KickStarter I will get the Odyssey DLC for my main account and I will give it a try.
But there is little chance now that I will buy it for my second account. What would have been a certain pre-order has now also evaporated.
Likewise I don't see much prospect of me spending any more of my hard earned cash on cosmetics (ARX). Over the years I've spent way too much on cosmetics thinking I was helping keep ED going.

I wasn't expecting a Half-Life Alyx type VR experience with motion controllers for space legs . KB and mouse or controller VR would have been fine.
Even if there was VR for flying ships in atmo planets, and SRVs, and then a transition out of VR into 2D for Legs then I could live with that. But unless we hear otherwise the FDev statement is Odyssey is not VR. Period.

Recent ED upgrades/expansions have mostly been aimed at multiplayer with very little for solo players like me, and now with VR support not seen as important, I feel that this game, which I thought was the best game in the world, is drifting further and further away from what I want to play. Very sad.

We are still at the early stages of this New Era, with many more questions still to be answered and much more detail and features still to be revealed (I assume), so maybe my disappointment will get raised back up to hyped, but it's not looking good at the moment.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Extremely disappointed about VR not coming for Odyssey. When I saw the Odyssey announcement I was excited that maybe I would be able to walk around inside my ship in VR (like properly, not just moving the camera around). Its a shame you will not support it.

I'm pretty sure you could still play the VR on the rest of the game just not on Odyssey

The game isnt going 2D, this is about this DLC

I don't have a problem with you sharing an opinion - but stating its the death of Elite is overly melodramatic, really?

It is death of Elite to us VR players. We're locked out of new content. Want VR? Launch Horizons, miss out planet tech and engine improvements. Tough life, cmdr. o7. So once again for people to realize: we're locked out from this DLC and all what it brings, we're confined to horizons or subpar monitor play. Yes I said it, it is a subpar experience. And I play both 2d games on 4k OLED, and VR games on the Index. It's not "VR or no play games!" for me, quite the opposite... But Elite in 2d is a subpar experience. Racing sims, flying sims. Until you try, you won't understand.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Hang on, you don't have the numbers, FD do so if it's niche why didn't they say no VR ever?

It's corporate speak, they won't commit to it, but maybe some shareholders will want it done, so they leave that possibility open. Basically "When broken shells make Christmas bells" or "when pigs fly" kind-of-way.

Imagine if they said Elite was becoming VR only Now that would generate an interesting response.

We have seen that on HL: Alyx release, it was a cringefest of total ignorance, anger, salt, and total rejection of what the game accomplished. I've seen arguments (some are in this thread) and reasonings dating back to 2016, and total vitriol thrown to polite people who tried to explain. Gimmicks, svivel gameplays, 3dtvs, nasa computers needed, cost a kidney, makes cows lose milk and think of the children, what have you. It was not a pretty sight, humanity at its toxic finest.

This is the same effect as VR, you can't just "add VR" you are basically developing another game to support it.

No Man's Sky added VR. Bugthesda added VR in Skyrim and Fallout 4. Hell, MODDERS made GTA V singleplayer playable with VR start to finish! Too lazy to list more titles, they were given in this thread already. TL; DR: many titles added VR support as an afterthought. And while it's not as good as a game made specifically for VR as Alyx is, they are still good experiences.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

That being my personal eyesight requirements per eye versus the distance for the focal point. Just comparing brands against each other you see they do not have a conformity in agreement.

I'd change optician. They use similar lenses during some of their tests, so they should know how they work...

I know, it's weird. Even though the screens are millimetres from my eyes, I don't need reading glasses.

Re: Eyesight - check these websites out:

WIDMOvr

widmovr.com

VR Prescription Lens Inserts - Flat Design, Larger FoV

Free-Form VR Prescription Lenses for the largest field of view, flatter lenses and flattest inserts. Feel the immersion and freedom.

vr-lens-lab.com

Regarding the need or no need of lenses in VR, the opticians aren't required to understand how a VR headset works Maybe mention vergence-accomodation conflict to them, that might give them a clue. Your eyes converge on a virtual screen just centimeters from your face, and your eyes try to accomodate at far virtual object which is focused through the HMD lenses on a greater distance. I'm no optician though and only know this exists in VR. Some people might have problems with it, but I personally don't know anyone who has. Demoed VR to many friends and to family like crazy zealot that I am

Headaches and nausea have been the two major sick factors I have read about regarding VR.
(...)
On the other hand. 3D Television systems and the filming systems used are really more gimmick than purpose.

Nausea - different people react differently. My wife can hop into Onward gameplay and shot baddies without a sweat with very very little time total in VR. I needed approx. 6 weeks of play to fully accustom to free locomotion and it was done using mainly Elite on a borrowed DK2... Now I can tumble in a flat spin in F14 Tomcat in DCS or downhill in a srv in Elite no problem at all.

Small minority of people supposedly never do accustom, but since 2016 vr devs found ways to minimise VR sickness (comfort blinders, teleporting, walking animations, rendering nose (yup)...). There are also people who can't play FPS games, one even posted in this thread that the head bobbing animation is disconcerting. Tell you what mate, I don't like it either and if there's an option to turn this down I turn it down because it's unnatural and desynchronised for me.

On 3dTV/movies... I used to love IMAX movies. It was 3d or bust for me for every premiere. But once I got VR, the 3d cinema effect lost its magic completely - it is even more inferior than you described... Sad, but that's progress for some. 3d cinema is ruined for me and I can't say I miss it much.

PS: sorry for subsequential posts but it was a wall'o'text otherwise.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Almost everything I have said on this topic is correct. You not liking it does not make it false.

I am still waiting for you or any VR user to prove to me that you are physically unable to use a monitor. As it stands, it is simply a case of not wanting to. They are not the same.

Considering you're all writing on this forum, I think you'll all find that request difficult to fulfil. Unless you can use a web browser in a headset now? That's a sincere question, by the way, as I genuinely don't know.

Reminder: I really do hope you get your VR support. I really do. If it's there, it's only a good thing. It is taking nothing away from me, so why would I be against it? I am not saying you don't have a reason to be upset, but you're also blowing this way out of proportion.

I have to agree. I want VR in Odyssey, but I will likely get it if what I see I like and play on my monitor or TV, or maybe I'll get a projector screen and play on a giant screen.

 

[Dbrn47]

Source: https://media.giphy.com/media/Ow59c0pwTPruU/giphy.gif

The Index is very comfortable. I can practically don it on and off like a baseball cap. And as much as I am ashamed to admit, I did fell asleep in VR more than a few times getting bored to death on long supercruise boredom highways in Elite while playing late at night

I have a hard time with just audio headsets. I always have. No matter how expensive or comfortable people claim they are, I would always end up uncomfortable or with a headache. My experience with VR was the piddly experience with Samsung VR on the phone, that also got hot and uncomfortable. I think it's just that these things aren't for everyone. It's hard to explain, maybe it's an adaptation thing that you need to ease your way into, but I could for sure wear full military gear for days, but a VR set or like I said, even headphones, can't go for very long without some sort of discomfort.

The sad part for me is that VR players truly feel like the game is over for them without VR. I can't wrap my head around that, because I've always felt the game looked fantastic in 2D. Though maybe it's a bit like having a high quality audio solution, you just never want to go back to consumer audio once you experience a pro set.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

The Index is very comfortable.

... once you have adjusted it properly. I first tested it at a friends place and had no time to adjust it properly. The lenses were cutting into my big nose as the IPD was way too small for me and the strap was probably also too tight. Once I adjusted my own Index when it arrived, it just sits there like a glove. Much better than my old Vive.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I have a hard time with just audio headsets. No matter how expensive or comfortable people claim they are, I would always end up uncomfortable or with a headache.

My experience with VR was the piddly experience with Samsung VR on the phone, that also got hot and uncomfortable.

The sad part for me is that VR players truly feel like the game is over for them without VR. I can't wrap my head around that, because I've always felt the game looked fantastic in 2D. Though maybe it's a bit like having a high quality audio solution, you just never want to go back to consumer audio once you experience a pro set.

First and foremost, mobile VR sucks, and is non-representative of what we have currently. It's actually damaging VR because people try and are burned by abysmal resolution, huge screen door effect, laughable gyroscope tracking, lack of proper motion controllers etc. etc.

With that outta the way, the Index and the upcoming new HP Reverb G2 share an amazing audio solution which are off ear BMR speakers. There's nothing touching your ears and the head harness is made of very nice cloth-ish material. But given your example with headphones, you'd need to actually try it. It's different from a headphone set though, because the lift is carried by the ring around your head, and the center strap is just for adjustment only. I like that solution very much as the sound is waaay more natural and also I'm not completely cut off and can hear my dog entering the room for example. Being produced from actual speakers and not headphone drivers sound is also very rich.

... once you have adjusted it properly. I first tested it at a friends place and had no time to adjust it properly. The lenses were cutting into my big nose as the IPD was way too small for me and the strap was probably also too tight. Once I adjusted my own Index when it arrived, it just sits there like a glove. Much better than my old Vive.

That's very true, Valve even put on adjustment guides out there. I personally found out that for best experience for me I need to angle the headset just a wee lil angle down.

Steam Support :: Valve Index Fit Guide

support.steampowered.com

That said if lenses cut into your nose, neither IPD nor the back nor the lenses adjustment was set properly. This is however understandable in a "demo" environment
PS: HTC Vive is one of the clunkiest headsets out there, even with the deluxe audio strap. And believe me, even PIMAX with it's cloth rubbery strap is better than the Vive.

 

[Hfarl]

I have to admit, I don't understand why folks are saying about VR in Odyssey that they are "sad to see it go", or that VR is somehow being removed or dropped from Elite Odyssey. Odyssey is a new expansion that none of us have yet, so none of us have played it in VR. So when Frontier says no VR support for Odyssey, I don't see how that is understood as something being removed or taken away. We've never had that in the first place, though it certainly would be a neat new feature.

Frontier have already confirmed that VR isn't going away in Elite; it's just not going to be in the new expansion (at launch, anyway). We'll all still be able to play Elite in VR just as we've already been doing. Nothing's lost.

As Mal would say "Can't miss a place you've never been."

 

[Dooguk]

I have to admit, I don't understand why folks are saying about VR in Odyssey that they are "sad to see it go", or that VR is somehow being removed or dropped from Elite Odyssey. Odyssey is a new expansion that none of us have yet, so none of us have played it in VR. So when Frontier says no VR support for Odyssey, I don't see how that is understood as something being removed or taken away. We've never had that in the first place, though it certainly would be a neat new feature.

Frontier have already confirmed that VR isn't going away in Elite; it's just not going to be in the new expansion (at launch, anyway). We'll all still be able to play Elite in VR just as we've already been doing. Nothing's lost.

As Mal would say "Can't miss a place you've never been."

Who is Mal? Is he a developer?

 

[VR StarLightPL]

We'll all still be able to play Elite in VR just as we've already been doing

Yes, on Horizons, without the new atmospheric planets, engine updates and all the "Pancake Era" stuff they now tease us. Left on an old code branch to rot, like it was rotting for many many months now. That also includes (or rather "excludes us from") the new ice worlds many of us were looking for to arrive. Basically Odyssey seems to be a different game client on the launcher, playable in 2d only.

 

[amigacooke]

It's not their main concern.

They work, execute the orders from the management and collect their wage at the end of the month.

So like all the employees they have no moods.

The organisation I work for gets a great deal of critical feedback, but luckily, I don't have to deal with it. I suspect that's the case for the vast majority of devs. Of course, there may be a dev(s) who worked on the VR who are just as unhappy as the users, but of course wouldn't be able to say so.

 

[ECity]

Yes, on Horizons, without the new atmospheric planets, engine updates and all the "Pancake Era" stuff they now tease us.

Not an unreasonable assumption, but this is not established fact.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I now remember why I'm no longer an audiophile or photography enthusiast...

 

[amigacooke]

FD has the actual numbers. You don't. You just don't want to accept the obvious. VR is a niche technology.

The thing is, it was probably even more niche when Frontier initially supporting it.

 

[Dooguk]

I now remember why I'm no longer an audiophile or photography enthusiast...

Why? Tell us. I'm dying to know.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

I told my girlfriend, who I have given my 2nd alt account, about no VR.
Her reaction, "That's crazy! How are you meant to play it??"
Made me laugh anyway.

I have to agree. I want VR in Odyssey, but I will likely get it if what I see I like and play on my monitor or TV, or maybe I'll get a projector screen and play on a giant screen.

I have a pj. It's massive. Crunchy 5.1 too.
It's still rubbish compared to VR. It's just a bigger TV.

If you haven't got VR though, it's MUCH bigger than a TV! Love playing Total War: Warhammer 2 on it.

 

[ECity]

The thing is, it was probably even more niche when Frontier initially supporting it.

And quite likely cheaper to do back then. Today's hardware is more demanding, and players have other games to compare it to.

 

[kilvenny]

I have to admit, I don't understand why folks are saying about VR in Odyssey that they are "sad to see it go", or that VR is somehow being removed or dropped from Elite Odyssey. Odyssey is a new expansion that none of us have yet, so none of us have played it in VR. So when Frontier says no VR support for Odyssey, I don't see how that is understood as something being removed or taken away. We've never had that in the first place, though it certainly would be a neat new feature.

Frontier have already confirmed that VR isn't going away in Elite; it's just not going to be in the new expansion (at launch, anyway). We'll all still be able to play Elite in VR just as we've already been doing. Nothing's lost.

As Mal would say "Can't miss a place you've never been."

The problem is when you load Odyssey you can only load in 2D since there is no VR. If you boot Horizons you will not see the Odyssey content, so take the trailer you wouldn't know the base is there in Horizons. Its not just a case of not walking around in VR, you will only be able to fly in VR if you go back to Horizons and it will only be Horizons content . Hence the problem.

 

[Ganogati]

And quite likely cheaper to do back then. Today's hardware is more demanding, and players have other games to compare it to.

What they've done so far compares rather nicely to other games, though I'm not sure how their FPS mode would go. I'm not surprised if they choose not to do FPS in VR at all.

With that said- the hardware isn't a big issue; the game already seems to support most of the major hardware people have thrown at it. Over on the VR subforum we've seen Oculus products from the dk1 up to the S and even the Quest and well as the Vive, Vive Pro, Index, Hp Odyssey+ and Reverb, and Pimaxes. So by way of supporting the hardware there doesn't seem to be much issue for their current engine at all.