ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement

[WeComeInPeace]

If headtracking is similar to watching a picture of a cake, then VR is similar to being the cake and eating it too. (How is that even possible, the people that haven't tried VR ask? Trust me it is). The two are not comparable in any way whatsoever.

Maybe it's not a biggie. I started out flying VR spaceships in EVE Valkyrie, and once that died went on to a much better experience in ED. Now that VR in ED is dying (I've stopped believing in vapor), there will obviously be a new and better alternative. Simple evolution. I've been following VR since the first time I played Dactyl Nightmare in the 90s. Trust me, we have come a long way and VR is far from dead.

Fdev almost had it, and then they blew it. They made an awesome game that was playable in 2D and gave an excellent VR experience, especially with a Hotas. FPS in VR? Too expensive? You need a decent setup to play most games. Controllers? I use both mouse, keyboard and Hotas in VR. My Oculus controllers ran of battery for the gazillionth time, so I have them but don't use them.

I don't see ED becoming a MMO FPS, but I do see me playing future VR spacegames.

Like tears in rain. Time, to die

 

[govny]

Star Citizen have announced a lot of things. It remains to be seen if they ever deliver on many of them. Squadron ‘42 is a good example. It is due for release this year and here we are in June and it has all gone very quiet!

Spoiler: answer the call 2016

 

[VR StarLightPL]

It is due for release this year

AGAIN? Did they specify year number this time? ;-)))

 

[jojon]

I'd like to know if I can pre-order the expansion on the frontierstore.net website, I don't use Steam and don't want to either, just another pointless app using up memory and processing power.

Why preorder, though? -The expansion will not be out for months. I am sure it will appear on the Frontier store in due time.

Just talked about it with my son last night. He doesn't play ED but is into VR programming (and very positively biased towards VR in general). I've learned that VR in FPS games is very different from static cockpit views, so what some amateurs are stating here, that it would be trivial to "just" make it so, is definitely not true. Sheds an interesting light on NMS; what they have achieved seems quite impressive but anything else than a cakewalk. I have no idea how convincing VR in NMS actually is, I neither played it nor am I using VR at all.

Depends on how ambitious you are.

Making a compelling game that truly plays to the affordances of VR, is an all-the-way-from-the-ground-up effort, that can dig deep into every fundamental aspect of its design, quite possibly resulting in something that ends up in many ways utterly incompatible with gameplay and interactions designed for non-vr.

On the other hand: Before Bethesda made its VR port of Skyrim (...which still leaves a lot to be desired, incidently), I had already played the original Skyrim in VR for years, using a succession of directX dll replacements, that made the game render appropriately dimensioned stereo views for the head-mounted display, instead of a single one for a screen, and made it possible to reduce the size of the game HUD, so that you didn't have to try to leer at it out of the corner of your eye. That was all, fundamentally; Everything else was just the usual monitor-targetted game, unaltered speed, unaltered level design, etc, played seated, using mouse and keyboard. Before that, I had played through Half Life 2 and its sequel-ettes, in the same manner. This was compelling enough for me, at the time, and I got over the initial simulation sickness.

I'd be quite content with that sort of thing for the leggie parts of Odyssey, at least as a first step. I'd pay extra for it, were it not financially viable otherwise, and if FD have reservations regarding liability to sea-sick players - just make it very, very much opt-in.

When FDev says they don't want to do anything with compromises, that comes across as a serious cop-out, which any user with only-too-much experience of previous use of language of that kind will immediately recognise as: "...so we won't do it at all", and in no way whatsoever: "...so we'll take our time to do it right". -No less considering I can not think of a single thing in Elite Dangerous, that is not a bad compromise in one way or other, no matter how much I love it despite all its many warts.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I watched 'The Road To PS5'. I'm not a PC snob, and I think this up's the ante considerably. I was very very impressed with what I saw and heard. I think it could actually tip the scales (PC vs Console). Good on you Sony, hopefully we'll see less greed from the likes of Nvidia et. al.; now the competition is hot.

If I can get a better gaming experience from a box that doesn't have to be optimised by developers for every possible hardware configuration, and has VR; I'm all over it. My PC can be freed up for recording music.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ehDRCE1Z38

Actually, it is the first time in history that PCs could be hampering gaming progres... With slow multicore (>4) adaptation and inferior (yes, inferior) storage. Video is well worth watching, if only to see Linus squirm

 

[FROSTBITE_777]

The funny thing is that SC actually runs very well in VR via VorpX. Just because the whole interaction with game - including all UI elements everywhere in game, character locomotion, crosshairs, ships HUD, etc - are implemented from the beginning fairly in 3D within game world, without any tricks with 2D-sprites etc.
So, through VorpX, SC works with VR literally flawlessly:

• all menus, ship HUD elements, crosshairs etc are at their places, without doubling / being too close / too far
• when you turn your head in the VR headset, your character in game turns head in the same way, whether it stands, walks or sits in pilot chair, so you naturally look in game in the direction, which you turned your head IRL
• FPs walking/shooting feels completely fine with K+M, not saying about ships/vehicles with HOTAS
• And what surprised me most of all - NO PIXELISATION ISSUE AT ALL, picture is exactly the same as in 2D, just a bit more blurry due to headset not-ideal lens/screens. While in ED you can barely read even big text... That's was really surprise for me, that image quality in SC+VorpX is times better than in ED natively.

Though the last item is pretty obvious, since it's VorpX, the image is not prepared in some specific/strange way for VR, like in ED. It's the same high-res antialiased excellent image, just sent to screens in headset by VorpX driver.

As to performance - in VR, actually PC doesn't need to do EVERYTHING twice. It prepares the scene only one time, but just does two "scheenshots" of the scene instead of one, of it using two DirectX camera objects, shifted a bit relatively to each other. And it's additional load only to the VC, not to CPU/RAM.

So, in VR, the performance of SC is just by a 15%-20% worse, than on 2D monitor. On any modern rig you will still have 60 fps in most places. Where you had like 50 fps, there will be 40.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEoEF6pWY-s

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-i0sfI0Ys

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCTH0sZBcwI

That's not bad, I still doubt I'd be able to squeeze that out of my 980ti at the moment though, due for an upgrade now anyway.
I assume they mightve done some of these things you mentioned in mind for VR in the future since Chris Roberts announced VR years ago

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

That's not bad, I still doubt I'd be able to squeeze that out of my 980ti at the moment though, due for an upgrade now anyway.
I assume they mightve done some of these thing you mentioned in mind for VR in the future since Chris Roberts announced VR years ago

It's amazing looking back at star citizen. I had a gtx 670 at the time. I remember my mate buying a gtx 780 and I remember thinking "I guess I am gonna have to buy one of those of I am to have a chance of playing that in VR when it launches"

That will be what 4 possibly 5 generations out of date by the time SC launches!

A few years back AMD were giving a free key away with their GPUs. I doubt those GPUs will be able to run SC when it launches.

 

[Warjoy]

The biggest mystery is what will we use this giant stapler for?

View attachment 175883

My guess Guardian Gauss Rifle

Can't wait to see more reveals.

 

[jojon]

Sure. If we're now going to start bean counting you'd probably have a point.

Well, bean counting is after all the presumed primary cause for the red-haired-stepchild treatment of VR in Elite.

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

For anyone wondering, this is a response from my comment; 'On the original advert, it had the words 'Made For VR' '.

...and from that you make it a "core" feature? Welcome in the world of conspiracies!

By that logic, if FD stopped being an 'MMO' (I know, I know (MMO?), and yes I remember the 'Offline Mode' debacle), and someone complained about it, I should return by saying 'and from that, you make being online a core feature'?

 

[VR StarLightPL]

It didn't say 'exclusively' for VR. Same goes for 'MMO' btw. That's what you want it to sound like, but that's what's going on here: People are constantly selling their expectations as facts and statements coming from FDev - which in the end simply isn't true.

Oh come on. It was on the advertisement, it's a quote: "Built from the ground up for VR". There are Braben videos explaining the concept. Even in this topic. It's sensible to assume it's a core game feature. Core feature you don't use, but we do. And no matter how will you try to twist it, facts are as follows: Odyssey won't be compatible with VR, VR remains on Horizons. So a) it was a core game feature for the what, 6 years now, and b) it is now being removed, because "it's incompatible". And all that corporate malarkey cotton wrapping this fact about re-evaluating, looking into and yadda yadda are non-committal remarks used for damage control. I only hope that they misgauged the VR community sentiment, counting on us shrugging and buying new content anyway, because all the Legs hype. Well, for me it's not gonna happen.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Well, you can try to bend reality, but these things I wrote about are out there for everyone to see, and childishly putting fingers in your ears and stomping feet won't change the facts. It only makes you a good candidate for the ignore list judging from the contribution value of your latest response.

EDIT: The entire post was, quote, "Nope.", it was edited afterwards to include a link posted earlier.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I've seen another interesting hypothesis for Odyssey in another thread:

As I said - its a business decision. I bet gamemodes are going too... bye bye solo in Odyssey.

I wonder what the outcry will be here, when suddenly you will be required to be in Open for ambulation bits because FDev won't do NPCs for "wanting to deliver top-notch npc experience"

 

[myarch]

Nope.
If you are really interested in the truth, I'd suggest you carefully read the interview with David Braben that Mad Mike already has linked some posts above:

How Frontier is bringing Elite: Dangerous to VR - MCV/DEVELOP

David Braben discusses what the studio is doing to adapt its upcoming game to virtual reality

www.mcvuk.com

So this is not the truth?

Elite Dangerous

Elite Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic. Take control of your own starship in an evolving, connected, cut-throat galaxy.

web.archive.org

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

Great article that you've linked here, lots of interesting insights. You should read it. How's about this quote:




If this doesn't ring a bell to you I really don't know what to say...

Are you still talking about VR?

 

[ArchEmperor]

I am imagining what the diplomacy scene in Odyssey would look like.

What about revisiting the old ancient Babylon 5 tv-series for inspiration?
What you guys think about diplomacy in Odyssey and what it can be?

 

[jojon]

...
What you guys think about diplomacy in Odyssey and what it can be?

I fear-and-more-than-I'd-like-suspect that it would only too likely be: "deliver propaganda in the name of <government>", being given the addition of: "deliver directly into the hands of X.".

Hopefully not.

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ehDRCE1Z38

Actually, it is the first time in history that PCs could be hampering gaming progres... With slow multicore (>4) adaptation and inferior (yes, inferior) storage. Video is well worth watching, if only to see Linus squirm

I watched that the other day. Fair play to Linus for holding his hands up. He did squirm, but he took responsibility for his deeds, and that showed respect and maturity. I realise that he has a reputation to protect, but (especially on Twitter) a lot of people would have doubled down, rather than admit that they are wrong. Goes to show how people shouldn't act or base an opinion on here say as if it is factual, as well as not judging hardware that they haven't experienced

'inferior (yes, inferior) storage': I'm not sure if the storage (PC SSD's) is necessarily inferior in itself, but Sony's approach to it's utilisation, if successful (which it looks to me that it will be), will make better use of SSD's for gaming in particular. I think that PC's may want to adopt the same approach, although that would mean a heck of a lot in terms of hardware architecture and re writing software so, for gaming, maybe PS5 will have the edge. Only time will tell. There is still the freedom of upgrading a PC as and when, but if PS5 can really be cutting edge, why bother building a PC, unless building is a hobby (which is fine, of course)?

Decent competition is healthy. It gives us more choice. I decided on PC, because they are (depending on components of course), more powerful. But that comes at a financial price. If Sony had more companies making Hotas' and the like for their system (as well as good VR), I would likely get one.

Imagine if you could hook up audio inputs and MIDI hardware and a mixing desk and install a DAW. Without all the optimisation ('tis but a dream), I'd be sold on it.

I had a PS3 when it came out, but I initially got it as a Blu Ray player that I could game on. It was cheaper than all the other blue ray players, and a good one. I did get quite a few games of course, as well as a Wheel and Pedals.

 

[Mogen Teras]

Oh come on. It was on the advertisement, it's a quote: "Built from the ground up for VR". There are Braben videos explaining the concept. Even in this topic. It's sensible to assume it's a core game feature. Core feature you don't use, but we do. And no matter how will you try to twist it, facts are as follows: Odyssey won't be compatible with VR, VR remains on Horizons. So a) it was a core game feature for the what, 6 years now, and b) it is now being removed, because "it's incompatible". And all that corporate malarkey cotton wrapping this fact about re-evaluating, looking into and yadda yadda are non-committal remarks used for damage control. I only hope that they misgauged the VR community sentiment, counting on us shrugging and buying new content anyway, because all the Legs hype. Well, for me it's not gonna happen.

VR isn't being REMOVED. You even said it yourself; it's still all there in Horizons and the base game. It's not like Odyssey is literally deleting the old expansions. Because its a PAID expansion, it means there's the possibility that not everyone willl buy it. Nor do they expect you to be obligated to buy it. If you're enjoying VR in Horizons, then keep playing Horizons.

This isn't complicated.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Goes to show how people shouldn't act or base an opinion on here say as if it is factual, as well as not judging hardware that they haven't experienced

'inferior (yes, inferior) storage': I'm not sure if the storage (PC SSD's) is necessarily inferior in itself, but Sony's approach to it's utilisation, if successful (which it looks to me that it will be), will make better use of SSD's for gaming in particular.

Same thing we're doing, only we're acting on hearsay of the community manager ;-)
As for new console hardware it looks too good to be true in my eyes, but it apparently is. It isn't storage per se which is better but the whole new paradigm of IO communication, prioritizing requests (and not in FDEV way! , and hardware compression / decompression by Kraken. It will be a damn fine piece of hardware. I wonder if Sony plans for PSVR2 with this. I've heard some rumours about patents, but didn't pay much attention to "console VR". Stupid PCMR... All in all if they really deliver an 8-core CPU, with graphics supposedly rivalling today's RTX series or better, it will give PCs a run for its money. But as someone mentioned, it was prophesized that previous generations will kill PC gaming and it didn't happened, so let's wait and see. Worst case scenario I will have additional plastic crap to place in my living room