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Solo players would receive the same as they currently do, but less than open players for carrying out the same actions in a considerably less risky environment. The problem is that there's currently no incentive whatsoever for solo miners or traders to play in open, unless they want a whiff of danger. I don't really see how that can be changed without either penalising solo play or adding bonuses to open play to compensate for the increased risk. Just as a bounty hunter receives a bigger payout for killing an elite Anaconda than a harmless Sidewinder, a trader who runs the gauntlet of potential piracy in open should get a bigger reward than someone who switches to solo every time they have something valuable in their hold, thereby basically eliminating any risk whatsoever.
Why is being a "prey" of a pirate in open a bad game design...
- Thread starter Alsteif
- Start date
I don't agree. Escaping a dangerous situation is great fun and does give a sense of accomplishment. In fact even not being attacked but taking yourself in harm's way and avoiding detection is a great experience as well.
I never play anywhere but in Open for that very reason.
Because what you're describing is fundamentally asking someone to enjoy being.. bullied..?
That's the most stupid idea ever (weird fetishes are out of scope).
That's the most stupid idea ever (weird fetishes are out of scope).
Nailed it
I just dont understand your mentality.
I dont play ED to mine, fight,explore or trade. I play ED because its the closest thing to being in an actual space ship Im going to experience. The activities I mentioned are all very secondary to this, I will of course do them, but its not why I am playing. So, when I have interaction with human players who want to rob my stuff because I have a cargo worth millions, guess what, it enhances the experience, it makes it seem more like I am in an actual space ship, because if I was in an actual space ship with a cargo worth millions, yea, people would want to rob me etc. It enhances texture and immersion.
I am a working man and dont have that much time for gaming, a bit more recently, but still plenty of other obligations.
That said I pity the people who have your perspective, have such a rigid accountancy of your own time, why would I want to play in open it would be inefficient etc. It just seem soulless and sterile. Its also weirder to me given that in game money is basically no object at this point.
Because it's the same game for both sets of players. The 'mode' is irrelevant.
The only extra 'risk' attached to open is having to share your universe with idiots. That's not something the game can legislate.
Exactly why I would say that, let me try to explain. A trader or miner being pirated in a lose scenario loses cargo, possibly a mission payout, possibly some hull and time, a pirate in a lose scenario loses time only. The trader or miner's 'win' scenario is escaping, possibly with hull damage and possibly with less cargo and a failed mission as well some lost time, the pirate's 'win' scenario is free cargo at the cost of some time and maybe ammo - how is that not heavily slanted in favour of the pirate?
And before it is suggested no I don't want a trader to be able to fight a pitrate/PVP ship but what I do expect is that in high and medium security systems should a pirate 'try it on' that the traders and miners get some bloody lulz back seeing the odd pirate/ganker/muppet get blown to hell for being an idiot doing it in a secure system. That is something else that is slanted, almost all the 'lulz' belong to one side here, lets see plenty more vids showing pirate/ganker/muppet typesgetting their backsides handed to them by a security response with some actual teeth.
It really is a lose/lose/lose for the 'pirated' or 'victim' and where is the fun in that?
Deleted member 182079
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Fair bit to unpack here, so here it goes:
- If a player measures their enjoyment in the game based on efficiency (time, credits) then that's unfortunate.
- Solo/PG would be the better option then for those individuals, I personally don't need those players in Open if they feel I'm 'griefing' them by playing the game as designed.
- I would never recommend fighting back in a non-combat focused ship, that'd be silly and expensive. Evaluate your options, then pick one of the two (run, or give them what they ask for); most pirates are quite reasonable really because they don't do it for the credits... mining LTDs themselves is much more profitable.
- Most importantly, you need to ask yourself where things went wrong if you actually let yourself get pirated by another player. I haven't been pirated even once by another player, because I won't let them get into that position by evading them a) in SC on approach b) in the ring by not allowing them to follow me into my wake, and if they do there's ways to shake your tail c) on the way to the selling station, the usual defensive maneuvers apply
- A pirate ship is not what I would call a PvP loadout, due to the modules required to make piracy work (specific weapons, cargo, limpets, scanners, etc.). If someone shows up in their meta FdL/Chief/Krait murderboat I'll make sure I get out of dodge ASAP
- While ATC isn't a threat as such, they can cramp one's style quite a bit. I wouldn't pirate in a High/Med sec system for example, not enough time to scoop up the goods before they show up (others may disagree) particularly when the loot is spread across various km's of space.
- Finally, appreciate not throwing gankers and pirates into the same bucket - by and large they're mutually exclusive groups of people. Also, namecalling isn't necessary and just devalues your post.
And just doesn't make any sense...kinda like that silly wing trade dividend.
I have never found this to be the case.
NPC pirate behavior is completely, utterly, suicidaly, insane. They are willing to not only throw away five percent of the cost of a ship and whatever cargo they've already collected, like a braindead CMDR is, but their actual lives, in pursuit of a handful of tons of worthless commodities.
CMDRs, even (or especially) gankers, usually have plausible motives. The foremost of these is entertainment. Beating the snot out of someone for fun, and making sure you've brought enough help to make the risk to yourself negligible, is something I see all the time in reality. I have never had anyone smaller than me try to mug or jump me while I was clearly better armed or with more friends then they had...which is the equivalent of what NPC pirates/assassins do.
This is pretty much every hostile NPC pirate:
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What benefits are you talking about? Are you going to buy a car with these loans? A three-story house? This is not even EVE where the usual isk is sometimes calculated in USD or EUR. What are you afraid of losing? Time? You already lose it in games...Do you like to languidly dominate a bunch of NPC babies? Most likely you are playing with VR or with very good hardware and on multiple monitors, I can't find any more explanations for myself.
There are many, many different ways to enjoy a game. Some strive for rewards, and proud victories. Some strive for ritches and monetary gains. After all, the game let's us to enjoy it as we see fit. Because of that, no one can tell another player to play as they see as "proper".
As i stated in the first post, i am no pvp player, but a pve one. And i do see credits, ships, the fleet carrier, my badges and permits as my achievments in the beautifull world of Elite Dangerous.
I do not state, anywhere, that you can only play Elite as i do. But i admit, that in my honest opinion, after some time spent in the game, being a prey of a pirate for the sake of being one in open is boring, and a hassle. It's an inconvenience.
The experience of being a hunter is fantastic, i agree. You have to find a good place to hunt, you have to choose the equipment (which with a carrier is now easier than before). Credits? In the past they meant something, now they don't. But this thread is not about that can of worms, so i won't even try to think about it now. I have them, i can die.
But the question is... why?
I fly in a beautifull space of Elite, and i may die to another player in open, and the experience of being a prey of another person, of being their loot, of being their gameplay element.... is simply boring to me.
Let's add though, that i do like playing with other people. The system-wide chat is glorious, letting me talk with other miners, interacting, etc. Even in solo, to a degree! Flying into the black, just to maybe find a new alien... thing, object, new thargoid structure, or just tak a photo of a Nebula i saw on a map? Yes, i would do that, and did that many times. Why? Because this experience was fun, glorious even! But being a prey? I see nothing fun, intresting or enjoyable in it. I simply don't see it.
That ... is all. I have no answer as to what to do with that. I only see it as a problem, and see it as a reason as to why i would not play in Open while, let's say, mining.
That's all.
I wouldn't really say, that the way i play is wrong. Different? Of course.
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I support you. In 1000 hours of open play, I was only destroyed once on my T9 with a load of Painite. This is for 1000 hours of play!) Once destroyed by representatives of the Empire in Rhea (the police work well) Well, a couple of times just destroyed, but this is at the very beginning of my career cmdr. And it doesn't hurt, believe me))))
Deleted member 182079
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Thanks.. even though I always feel like I wasted my time elaborating with a wall of text/bullet points. Because I don't think they will change their attitude. Oh well.
I am new to Elite, I play only in Open and see no appeal whatsoever to a purely PVE experience.
I have ~100hrs in game, have been ganked twice, and gone on to interact with both of the gankers out-of-game (via Discord, etc). They have proven to be extremely helpful in my learning the game, tips & tricks on how to unlock engineers, advice on builds, etc. PVP players are often some of the most knowledgeable about game mechanics (after all, it's their business) and I'm super grateful for their help.
So, that's something I got in exchange for my ganking experience, and honestly? It's more valuable than the diamonds I was going to sell. By a lot.
I will continue to play exclusively in Open for as long as I play Elite. I embrace all that the Open multiplayer has to offer, and I am not for a moment bothered by my ship getting blown up from time to time. It literally doesn't matter.
I have ~100hrs in game, have been ganked twice, and gone on to interact with both of the gankers out-of-game (via Discord, etc). They have proven to be extremely helpful in my learning the game, tips & tricks on how to unlock engineers, advice on builds, etc. PVP players are often some of the most knowledgeable about game mechanics (after all, it's their business) and I'm super grateful for their help.
So, that's something I got in exchange for my ganking experience, and honestly? It's more valuable than the diamonds I was going to sell. By a lot.
I will continue to play exclusively in Open for as long as I play Elite. I embrace all that the Open multiplayer has to offer, and I am not for a moment bothered by my ship getting blown up from time to time. It literally doesn't matter.
This is true for some. In my case, nothing said here will prompt me to play in open. I don't like crowds of strangers in real life, and apparently I have similar feeling about my computer game time. Just like the open only folks will never be convinced to change their minds about Solo and Mobius. No real difference here, other than differing perspectives.
But I'm sure there are some here who can be convinced to try open.
Deleted member 182079
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And I think that's perfectly fine - I'm not normally a multiplayer kind of guy but with Elite it's just the right 'pace' if you know what I mean. Competitive MP is not my cup of tea at all. It took me over a year to switch from Solo to Open, for similar reasons as you. Haven't really looked back and it made me a better pilot and ship builder because I couldn't continue to fly the ships I used to fly, and getting challenged by real players (you will get better, but you will eat rebuys as part of the learning curve) is something that NPCs just can't provide.This is true for some. In my case, nothing said here will prompt me to play in open. I don't like crowds of strangers in real life, and apparently I have similar feeling about my computer game time. Just like the open only folks will never be convinced to change their minds about Solo and Mobius. No real difference here, other than differing perspectives.
But I'm sure there are some here who can be convinced to try open.
If you're not into combat (like, at all - I don't really actively PvP, 99% is PvE for me) and don't enjoy being the 'hare' being chased then there's little reason to play in Open (events such as DWE aside).
Deleted member 182079
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That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Let's also add: anyone can play as they want to. And anyone can enjoy the game in any way possible.
- I can understand that to some, my "Let's go to this nebula "only" to see it, take photos, look up the planets and leave" may be boring, and a waste of time, since i fly for a long time to see something on a screen and then i even have to go back!
I still did many exploration runs and will do more~. And same goes for pirates or pvp... i guess? Some will like it, some will not.
- No, dying in Elite is not as serious as it was in the past. Especially if you played long. I mean, with my 2 bil credits, loosing even my fully engineered corvette is not really a problem. And with mining? Ya, i can make 500 mil in what, two hours? That's laughable.
There were though some fun few, who kept on telling me, that by playing Elite in solo/pg's i break the game and that by doing so, i rob them of the piracy gameplay (as they had no one to play in open! Imagine that!). And yes, it was in New Boran. And yes, they were rather childish and "emotional" about their problem. It have made me think about the "why people don't play in open" debacle, though.
- I am not going to say, that i understand that. Nor will i say, that i understand the enjoyment of playing in open, or the (supposed?) enjoyment of being the target. Even when i really won't loose anything and even IF i were to die (Which i see as unlikely).
- Also, i do understand that taking "away" from solo, by imposing restrictions on how people play it (say: THey can't affect bgs, they can't do power play, or that they get less credits for playing) is not an option. Since it can be seen as unfair towards those people, who see Elite as a single player game, not a multiplayer one (and there is nothing wrong with that).
But... i really see no option here, with this problem, expect for saying that there is nothing that can be done.
It seems that there is no real way to bring more people to open for those people, who enjoy pvp and want to have targets as pirates, as i am not and will not be convinced that it's fun...
That's... all. I guess?
- I can understand that to some, my "Let's go to this nebula "only" to see it, take photos, look up the planets and leave" may be boring, and a waste of time, since i fly for a long time to see something on a screen and then i even have to go back!
I still did many exploration runs and will do more~. And same goes for pirates or pvp... i guess? Some will like it, some will not.
- No, dying in Elite is not as serious as it was in the past. Especially if you played long. I mean, with my 2 bil credits, loosing even my fully engineered corvette is not really a problem. And with mining? Ya, i can make 500 mil in what, two hours? That's laughable.
There were though some fun few, who kept on telling me, that by playing Elite in solo/pg's i break the game and that by doing so, i rob them of the piracy gameplay (as they had no one to play in open! Imagine that!). And yes, it was in New Boran. And yes, they were rather childish and "emotional" about their problem. It have made me think about the "why people don't play in open" debacle, though.
- I am not going to say, that i understand that. Nor will i say, that i understand the enjoyment of playing in open, or the (supposed?) enjoyment of being the target. Even when i really won't loose anything and even IF i were to die (Which i see as unlikely).
- Also, i do understand that taking "away" from solo, by imposing restrictions on how people play it (say: THey can't affect bgs, they can't do power play, or that they get less credits for playing) is not an option. Since it can be seen as unfair towards those people, who see Elite as a single player game, not a multiplayer one (and there is nothing wrong with that).
But... i really see no option here, with this problem, expect for saying that there is nothing that can be done.
It seems that there is no real way to bring more people to open for those people, who enjoy pvp and want to have targets as pirates, as i am not and will not be convinced that it's fun...
That's... all. I guess?