Yes, that's the important bit, I think.
Patch Notes Fleet Carriers Update Patch 2 - Downtime and Patch Notes
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Couldn't agree more with this post.
And I agree with the poster, but I still think FDEV has to take some responsibility and address these problems in their code before punishing anybody.
Also, if FDEV consider some bugs as exploits and they don't have the time to correct them, they should have a section in the codex (or at least a thread in the forum) to warn everybody about it and explicitly say that players WILL be punished for using it.
Then it would be clear for everybody what is considered an exploit in the game.
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Some points/questions:
First, why does it matter for you how others get their mats and credits?
To me cheating implies that there is competition of some sort and others are illegitimately gaining an advantage, but in Elite outside of PvP, where it's mats that matter more than credits, I don't think that applies.
Secondly, the slf exploit is effectively the relog mechanic that is a function of the way Elite has been built unless FD intentionally build it differently (such as core mining.)
People have been relogging at sites like Dav's Hope and Jameson's Cobra for mats since they were found and FD have allowed and tolerated this. The only difference is that, as far as I'm aware, this is the first time that a high profile relogging can be used to (almost) directly generate credits. If you were to remove credits from 'cheaters' then you'd have to remove mats from every Jameson Cobra relogger as in terms of game mechanics they're identical.
Finally, this exploit is only 1.5-2 times more lucrative than other existing possibilities such as mapped mining.
The game has long been in a place where a new player can be in an Anaconda inside a day, and the Trader Elite rank can now be obtained without even doing a single trade run https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...its-a-multi-crew-concern.549728/#post-8568850
The game's progression has been borked for years in so many ways and this is just another example. It's something FD have done deliberately as they introduced new mechanisms and they appear to have given up on any idea of earning balance.
I've also given up on it mattering and just enjoy my own gameplay in my own way.
Good point. Also:
In fact, can someone point me out where all those disturbing things are named "bugs" and even more "exploits" and "cheats" by FD? With exactly that terminology applied? So far I have heard only other commanders personal opinions, FD themselves names it "changes". And formally that about SLF is a consequence of otherwise legal game mechanics, and in order "to correct" it in this particular case another additional mechanics (cooldown) has been introduced to suppress the unintended effect of the first (and introducing new mechanics in a hurry can result in new portion of bugs as we all know it from experience).
However the whole thread about patches tend to migrate in the plane of what is exploiting/cheating and what is not, ah yes, and what punishment must be applied.
And all the rare posts about real bugs introduced with FC (of those persisted from earlier days) are... oh, yes, they are not as interesting to discuss.
I think they took all of the deep cores from other hotspots and put them in LTD areas... Lol. Spent 4hrs this morning in the middle of a pristine Void Opal spot and have only found 2. I'm not trying super hard... Fly a bit, work a bit, but still I would expect to find more than 2.
I have been fighting in conflict zones for around 4 hours now and the old missing <> indicator around some targets is still not fixed.
Also high intensity conflict zone seems a little easier (maybe it's me...), and massacre missions are no more profitable than before.
Now waiting for at least a semi-profitable massacre mission to spawn.
Ah, well...
Also high intensity conflict zone seems a little easier (maybe it's me...), and massacre missions are no more profitable than before.
Now waiting for at least a semi-profitable massacre mission to spawn.
Ah, well...
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Not a problem itself, but paired with "Egg" ... literally thousands commanders do mine SINGLE rock infinite getting extra huge output. I never searched for egg which is 4 holes rock, however 3 holes rock there can feel to full my 128T mk-2 in 10 mins. Also there is "Son Of Egg" there - lesser rock. So implemented 2hrs CD does not help. People Just mine 1 rock now, then swap to another.
I think proper solution could be to make additional procedure which generates mesh around ring (like integrating). Then each slot in mesh is separate tracked for depletion. And switch from pristine->depleted should be sensitive, like 20 times different outcome. That will fix all sort of problems. As ring will give less profit soon. And people will be forced to move.
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Great idea.
And hotspots should stay depleted at least a couple of months, not respawn resources every hours.
This would also mean that, the more people mine the same hotspot, the faster the hotspot is depleted.
First.
It matters to me because i want Elite Dangerous to be a fair and consistent experiance for all players who invest their time and money in this title and its incumbent on Frontier to ensure that this game delivers that. If Frontier are happy to see their product become a cheaters Darling then good luck to them. The more Frontier give up or ignore cheating in their game i personally lose faith not only in Elite Dangerous, but also them as a developer and i know im not alone in this attitude. If Elite Dangerous wants to be know broadly as Cheat Dangerous then Frontier are only damaging their own brand and credibility.
I want Elite Dangerous to succeed and for that to continue, Frontier need to be Professional.
Second.
Davs hope and Jamesons cobra as far as im aware (i think there are one or two more sites... the crashed Conda with the Thargoid scan?) are anomalies i admit, and yes Frontier have not nerfed them (wish they would), but these sites seem to be single point locations which players can choose to travel to and exploit. Once it was possible to relog on any planet surface and kill harvest mats from skimmers all day long, To my knowledge Frontier stopped this.
I think time is a factor when it comes to a roll back, the SLF/Mining exploit is still fresh so a roll back right now is still possible. For Frontier to roll back the mats gathered from Davs hope and Jamesons cobra which have been going for years now, i doubt it. I guess you could argue for a statute of limitations on individual roll backs... However the Engineering Cheat that gave players god rolls some years back floated around in secret for a long time and Frontier did punish those players when they found out.. But like i said, that exploit was a secret.
The SLF/Mining exploit was a flash of use once the knowledge become public and Frontier obviously didnt intend for people to use it once they found out.. which is why Frontier have 'Apparently' patched it out. If Frontier have patched it (intend to patch it) then obviously Frontier do not think that its supposed to happen.. so its an exploit from a bug... so they should Roll back the cheaters who knowingky used it for weeks or maybe months, Frontier should be consistent in their line towards cheating within their product. Protect the brand.
When Frontier allow cheating to take place without consequence thay pave the way for more cheating to take place. A consistent line in the sand from Frontier will help set the precedent that Frontier are in charge of their product, something which i as an invested customer expect and would be comforted by. Bugs and glitches in games happen we all know this, but cheaters who are not rolled back are given the green light to cheat again and this just creates a culture of cheating within the game. If people feared the consequences of unabated exploiting then the vast majority of players wouldnt risk it which in turn gives Frontier a lot less work to do when it comes to cleaning up these mistakes and setting the game right again. Its also helps maintain the polished and professional veneer of Frontier Developments. Something that i, a customer like to see.
Finally.
Are you happy to see Frontier get lazy on fixing their game? Your language in this section of your posts suggests that maybe you dont like it. But you seem to be here i think to justify whats happened and to be in some regards an apologist. Are you now so exasperated that you have also given up?
I personally want to see this game get better and i think a professional and consistent approach by fromtier on the issue of cheating is a step in the right direction.
Ive not given up on this game... so i will continue to speak up and out.
Roll back the cheats!
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I wouldn't do respawns at all
So people will be forced to fly away...some real use for FC 2-3 years later.
Why in the Codex? It is already in the EULA (section 3c). Also, bugs are an inherent part of any complex software, but how we choose to deal with them is up to us as much as to the software company. They can only take testing so far, as they are after all not users and don't get into all the nooks and crannies of the workflows that are possible within the software's framework.
People can report bugs or potential exploits in hopes of getting them fixed, or they can choose to keep the information about the issues to themselves to use for their own gains. The latter behaviour is why voluntary testing is not as great an idea as it may seem (no contract binding the tester, and nothing inciting them to do the best and most honest job of it). It has also happened to ED during several tests in the past and I suspect it is why we for a while did not have beta test for new additions to the game.
Yes, FD must take on responsibility and fix potential cheats and exploits. The players must also accept when what they signed up to is used to stop their errant behaviour.
SAh, but while it's rather unrealistic for thousands of players to repeatedly mine out the same rock (or is it, they are the size of mountains after all...) it's also a bit unrealistic for players to deplete a ring in any reasonable amount of time too. On a lark, I measured the dimensions of the inner, maximum yield portion of the LTD3 overlap in Col 285. 88 million sq. km. For reference, that's about twice the land area of Asia.
Now since these subsurface asteroids do yield extreme amounts of minerals at once, it would be interesting to have a mechanism that depletes them globally after a while. Perhaps they come with a 1% chance of cracking apart when you mine them out, after which they're globally unusable for several days, just like core asteroids. Then the typical rock would be unaffected, but if you had an extreme high value one that got publicized, on average fifty people using it would destroy it and force everyone else to move on.
Odd days: Credits are useless, why even bother.
Even days: How dare other people making so much money, lets suggest rollback
Even days: How dare other people making so much money, lets suggest rollback
Well, speaking for myself only, over time, I came to tolerate the (some very old) bugs lingering in the game because I don't expect them to be fixed anymore.
So maybe you are right, frontier get lazy because we get lazy, it could also be the other way around, we got lazy because frontier got lazy (or more precisely protected by the filters of the issue tracker).
The 'issues' tracker, as it is, is probably filtering so well the issues submitted by players that I suspect most of them 'expire' silently and the devs never hear about most of them.
I find it so frustrating to find myself in front of the form, spending more than half an hour trying to formulate the problem as clearly as possible, then trying to remember how to reproduce it precisely, then nothing... no feedback at all.
And months or years later, the bug is still in the game.
All the while Frontiers credibility is eroded.
If Frontier ever make another Elite game sometime down the line I personally will think twice about bothering, which is sad because i started to play this game years ago with such complete trust and enthusiasm.
That's why I said about mesh covering. That single square like 30 x 30 km must get depleted. I.e. "egg rock" will give no reward any more - go find new, full ring depletion is sum of such squares.
Oh yeah, thanks to remind me to get the EULA in front of me next time I start ED... Just in case I do something nasty
EULA 3(c) : 'use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game'
According to section 3(c) of the EULA (and all section 3 for that matter), the so called SLF 'exploit' is not an exploit at all.
They are only using the game as-is, without tempering any the the functionalities offered in-game.
Ironically, using EDDB could be considered an exploit according to section 3(d) (if they did not have the permission to do it).
The bugs are part of the so called 'experience of the game' offered by frontier, wanted or not wanted.
As much as I understand and agree with you that the problem(s) should be seriously addressed, I still think this this is FDEV responsibility, not the players.
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Fleet carriers are still not visible on the Galaxy map, which they were originally, but ceased to be after the first patch.