Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking

[Mohrgan]

I consent to my CMDR encountering any others when I click Open and all players that have not blocked mine consent to encountering him by clicking Open.

If you are blocking someone and thus excluding them from the instance our CMDRs share, you are assuredly violating my consent, because I sure as hell did not willfully agree to let you dictate who I can or cannot encounter.



Both of those things would be harmful to my entertainment and thus upsetting to some degree. The difference is that the occasional bad connection is an unfortunate and unavoidable reality of network infrastucture, while someone being able to breaking up a group of players with block is due to a flawed design choice by the game developer and a recklessly indifferent or malicious player.



And you should have neither the right nor priviledge to tell me that my CMDR cannot instance with CMDR Gwydion for example. But if you block him, while my CMDR has been paired with you, that's exactly what you're claiming.

How about offering some examples of when this has happened? When couldn't you instance with Cmdr Gwydion because of another player's Block list. How often has your Friends list influenced your instancing, and just who might have been offended by that?

Come on tell that monster under your bead to just leave. You don;t believe in him/her any more.

Sweet dreams.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

And well lets say I fly in Deciat, and instance with CMDR Noobynoob. Now CMDR Supergriefer cannot instance with CMDR Noobynoob cause CMDR Supergriefer is blocked by my blocklist. CMDR Noobynoob if he knows what CMDR Supergriefer will do certainly does not want to meet him. Only harm Noobynoob gets is that he does not get chance to block Supergriefer. So my list in fact made community one bit better.

 

[Morbad]

Not true, you have the ability to ask about and accept by grouping or decline by not grouping other players block lists. No one is forced to group

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about or how the block functionality actually works.

The group I'm referring to is an instance or even the entire Open mode. I'm not talking about a PG, a Squad, and I'm sure as hell not talking about a Wing.

Block prevents a targeted CMDR from re-instancing with you, unless there are factors strong enough to counter the weight of the block, like (ironically enough) a wing, for example.

If your CMDR and twenty others share the same instance, then someone you have blocked enters that same area, they won't be placed in that instance. Barring other circumstances, you will have excluded them not only from interacting with you, but from interacting with any of those twenty strangers, no matter what, if any, opinion they hold of that other CMDR. I think block is even strong enough now to defeat a single friending, so if that CMDR is expecting to drop in to that instance and help out their friend, you just screwed that up for them.

This is what I'm talking about. Block won't re-instance you or anyone else, but it unilaterally prevents people you have blocked from interacting with anyone in your CMDR's instance, if you got there first.

Now, if they had enough friends in that instance, or you and the person you blocked happened to join the same wing, then your block would be outweight by those other factors and the CMDR you blocked could shoot or ram down your CMDR, even if you couldn't see anything they were typing.

CMDR Noobynoob if he knows what CMDR Supergriefer will do certainly does not want to meet him.

That's an assumption that will often be false.

I could well be CMDR Noobynoob and I could well be looking to shoot down CMDR Supergriefer.

 

[Stelar 7]

I consent to my CMDR encountering any others when I click Open and all players that have not blocked mine consent to encountering him by clicking Open.

If you are blocking someone and thus excluding them from the instance our CMDRs share, you are assuredly violating my consent, because I sure as hell did not willfully agree to let you dictate who I can or cannot encounter.

You are imagining an instance where you and I are both present but I have blocked some third commander who you can not see. Do you have any evidence that you and I can instance in such a way without you grouping with me?

Do you think you get to choose who you instance with? It may be that your bandwidth is insufficient to instance me and some other commander. Is that some how bad or a problem?

Instancing is a privilege, not a right.

Both of those things would be harmful to my entertainment and thus upsetting to some degree. The difference is that the occasional bad connection is an unfortunate and unavoidable reality of network infrastucture, while someone being able to breaking up a group of players with block is due to a flawed design choice by the game developer and a recklessly indifferent or malicious player.

That is a personal attack, not an argument. The developers have chosen to maximize player agency by allowing us to curate our online experience. You are suggesting your desire to play with a hypothetical person and someone who does not wish to play with that same person should be able to deny the agency of the blocker.

This is how consent works. You consent to play with person A and person B. Person A does not consent to play with person B so you may play with A or B but you may not force A to play with B and your desire to do so puts your happiness on a higher platform than their agency. That makes A a second class citizen whose desires are subordinate to yours.

And you should have neither the right nor priviledge to tell me that my CMDR cannot instance with CMDR Gwydion for example. But if you block him, while my CMDR has been paired with you, that's exactly what you're claiming.

Nope. All it does is say that you can play either with me or them. Your only agency to select an instance is with the grouping tool. If you choose to group with me you accept my block list as I accept yours.

If you have not grouped with me you are at the mercy of the algorithm for who you get to instance with.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If you are blocking someone and thus excluding them from the instance our CMDRs share, you are assuredly violating my consent, because I sure as hell did not willfully agree to let you dictate who I can or cannot encounter.

As we are often reminded, playing in Open means that one has consented to what happens in Open - and other players in Open don't need anyone's express consent to use the block feature.

 

[Stelar 7]

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about or how the block functionality actually works.

The group I'm referring to is an instance or even the entire Open mode. I'm not talking about a PG, a Squad, and I'm sure as hell not talking about a Wing.

Block prevents a targeted CMDR from re-instancing with you, unless there are factors strong enough to counter the weight of the block, like (ironically enough) a wing, for example.

If your CMDR and twenty others share the same instance, then someone you have blocked enters that same area, they won't be placed in that instance. Barring other circumstances, you will have excluded them not only from interacting with you, but from interacting with any of those twenty strangers, no matter what, if any, opinion they hold of that other CMDR. I think block is even strong enough now to defeat a single friending, so if that CMDR is expecting to drop in to that instance and help out their friend, you just screwed that up for them.

This is what I'm talking about. Block won't re-instance you or anyone else, but it unilaterally prevents people you have blocked from interacting with anyone in your CMDR's instance, if you got there first.

Now, if they had enough friends in that instance, or you and the person you blocked happened to join the same wing, then your block would be outweight by those other factors and the CMDR you blocked could shoot or ram down your CMDR, even if you couldn't see anything they were typing.



That's an assumption that will often be false.

I could well be CMDR Noobynoob and I could well be looking to shoot down CMDR Supergriefer.

I know very well how instancing works. Your situation though is absurd.

It assumes you have a right to instance, or any agency at all in where you instance, aside from grouping.

You do not get to choose where you are instanced unless you are using tools like grouping.

So you are arguing for a right you do not have to deny the agency of another player.

 

[Morbad]

Do you have any evidence that you and I can instance in such a way without you grouping with me?

Depends on what you mean by 'grouping'.

Your only agency to select an instance is with the grouping tool. If you choose to group with me you accept my block list as I accept yours.

This is demonstrably false and depending on what you mean by grouping, quite possibly exactly the opposite of how the game actually works.

You do not get to choose where you are instanced unless you are using tools like grouping.

Unless the instance is full, or not connectable, it will place me in an instance, which in most cases cases, is going to be the only Open instance in that area.

If we take our CMDRs to any arbitrary location in Open right now, we will very likely be in the same instance.

So you are arguing for a right you do not have to deny the agency of another player.

No, I'm pretty sure that's what you're arguing.

 

[Mohrgan]

Depends on what you mean by 'grouping'.



This is demonstrably false and depending on what you mean by grouping, quite possibly exactly the opposite of how the game actually works.



Unless the instance is full, or not connectable, it will place me in an instance, which in most cases cases, is going to be the only Open instance in that area.

If we take our CMDRs to any arbitrary location in Open right now, we will very likely be in the same instance.



No, I'm pretty sure that's what you're arguing.

Can you see the credibility just leaking out of this argument? I can.

You said this quote: "Your only agency to select an instance is with the grouping tool. If you choose to group with me you accept my block list as I accept yours." is "demonstrably false". Well, go ahead and demonstrate. I challenge you to demonstrate that assertion with facts, not a dicertation on how you feel the matchmaking system works, but with facts.

 

[soloe]

Any notion of the Block feature messing with instancing is academic, at best. Find any player that can identify just one opportunity where a block messed with instancing, And, I would be happy to discuss it. Now, I'm not talking about a recitation on the implications that can be derived from the rules of blocking. I'm asking for a moment where an expected meeting or encounter didn't happen because of the block function.

No one will be able to do that. There is no way for any Commander to diagnose what occurred in the matchmaking process.

I bring it up because this whole issue cannot be detected in game. Players only know about the instance they are in, and can in no way pin-point why they got there. It's just a worry that people impose upon themselves. It's that monster under the bead, that vanishes when you go to look. Stop looking for it, and it won;t trouble you. Or, just think of how many people you weren't instanced with because of connection, distance, language and/or platform. That should chase the tiny bugaboo of Blocking right out of the equation.

P.S. I would also like to mention that the Friends list could and should have the same kind of influence over matchmaking. Where is the outrage over the Friends list then?

For me the bogeyman "blocking" is far more scary than the one called ganker. This, of course, again is my personal perspective.

You asked for an example: I was heading to Borann once to find a gank squad there. They did their thing and tried to get me. I evaded to another system got back to try my luck again and they were quite persistent. I had a fun time evading them up until they where just gone after I returned to the system for the second time. A player on my friendlist had since blocked them as I discovered later and thereby spoiled the fun I had trying to reach the ring.

Another time, that was during the war for Riedquat, I suspect that blocking had been an issue too, as often times friends of mine couldn't instance with me or others when certain cmdrs were around. This is only a suspicion though. I don't have any proof and it may also have been a coincidence.

 

[Stelar 7]

So you are arguing for a right you do not have to deny the agency of another player.

No, I'm pretty sure that's what you're arguing.

Ah the old I know you are but what am I defense...

I have the right to block anyone for any reason. Its coded right into the game. You accept my right to block you and the the consequences of instancing resulting from my blocks when you play with me in open.

If you don't want to face the consequences of my block list you are welcome to play in Solo or Private groups.

You have no agency beyond the group tool to select your instance.

 

[Morbad]

Ah the old I know you are but what am I defense...

It's not a defense, it's an accusation that I think is well founded, as is demonstrated by your subsequent claims.

You have no agency beyond the group tool to select your instance.

I can prove this is false.

 

[Mohrgan]

For me the bogeyman "blocking" is far more scary than the one called ganker. This, of course, again is my personal perspective.

You asked for an example: I was heading to Borann once to find a gank squad there. They did their thing and tried to get me. I evaded to another system got back to try my luck again and they were quite persistent. I had a fun time evading them up until they where just gone after I returned to the system for the second time. A player on my friendlist had since blocked them as I discovered later and thereby spoiled the fun I had trying to reach the ring.

Another time, that was during the war for Riedquat, I suspect that blocking had been an issue too, as I often times friends of mine couldn't instance with me or others when certaincmdrswerearound. This is only a suspicion though. I don't have any proof and it may also have been a coincidence.

Your friend, who was not instanced or grouped with you at the time, somehow manage to block players from your instance? I'm not buying that. And, your percieve interference is exactly what I am talking about. You have congered a ghost that can tie your friends list to another player's block list. That's just nutty.

I want to note that in one case you connected issues from afar after the fact. Never knowing where your playmates had gone, while playing. And then, you go on to mention a suspicion that something might have happened. I think you need to stop looking under the bed. None of that comes anywhere near to satisfying proof.

Next...

 

[Mohrgan]

It's not a defense, it's an accusation that I think is well founded, as is demonstrated by your subsequent claims.



I can prove this is false.

Go ahead and do it. Not with Word-Salad, but with objective facts.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Well lets say every non(ganker/griefer/murder-hobo/lulz-attacker) takes my stance and blocks them. It leads to situation that such can instance only with their kind of players. Is it a big loss? Perhaps if you like their antics. Otherwise no.

 

[soloe]

Your friend, who was not instanced or grouped with you at the time, [...]

When did I say he wasn't? Just said I found out later.

 

[Stelar 7]

It's not a defense, it's an accusation that I think is well founded, as is demonstrated by your subsequent claims.

Its delusion. I stated facts to support my position and you reply with massive truncation and opinion.

I can prove this is false.

Ok, prove that you have the agency to affect your instancing, other than by means of the grouping tool. I'll be here waiting.

 

[Mohrgan]

When did I say he wasn't? Just said I found out later.

Well, it would have been pertinent to the facts, and it wasn't offered. It seems reasonable to exclude something not mentioned. While this was going on, your friend was in a wing with you or in your ship?

 

[soloe]

Well, it would have been pertinent to the facts, and it wasn't offered. It seems reasonable to exclude something not mentioned. While this was going on, your friend was in a wing with you or in your ship?

In the system in SC. I assumed it would've been obvious as we both seemed to know that "blocking someone out of my instance" isn't possible.

Edit: in case it still isn't clear : I entered my friends SC instance.

 

[Morbad]

Ok, prove that you have the agency to affect your instancing, other than by means of the grouping tool. I'll be here waiting.

You already know that blocking affects instancing, and I'm sure you can find the dev posts that explain how recent CMDR encounters, friends lists, and other factors under direct or indirect player control impact instancing weights.

If you want me to demonstrate some of these, I'd be happy to do so, in game. I'll even bring a small weaponless vessel if you are worried about someone ganking your CMDR.

 

[Stelar 7]

You already know that blocking affects instancing, and I'm sure you can find the dev posts that explain how recent CMDR encounters, friends lists, and other factors under direct or indirect player control impact instancing weights.

If you want me to demonstrate some of these, I'd be happy to do so, in game. I'll even bring a small weaponless vessel if you are worried about someone ganking your CMDR.

You said you can prove you have the ability to control who you instance with positively. That you can choose who to instance with some how other than with a group.

Go ahead prove it, I'm waiting.