As far as combat, it is a good idea to use both modes in order to get the best out of the ship. For general flying though, 100% off is fine.
Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage
- Thread starter TEBORI
- Start date
As far as combat, it is a good idea to use both modes in order to get the best out of the ship. For general flying though, 100% off is fine.
Ant_Solo, do you have video evidence similar to what TEBORI has given? If so could you provide links?
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Precisely, but I fly 100% FAoff because I like the challenge. Well... maybe not trying to land on high G worlds but we can ignore that.
Sorry dude, I'm not going to make a video for this.But you can test his claim in game yourself.
Set mouse to relative then turn off flight assist.
Move the mouse then stop.
My claim is that when you stop the mouse it stops applying thrust in that direction.
His claim is that when you stop the mouse it applies counter thrust.
Stop applying thrust means you continue to move in the way you were. Counter trust means it applies trust to stop you.
With a HOTAS it is quite simple, all you need is an axis that assigns the ventral thrusters to analogue, you can assign the axis under alternate flight controls, or flight landing over ride. A bit of a cheat really, but it works up to 10g, and probably beyond.
I fly FA off almost permanently, only situatios I enable FA is landing in high g planets and taking materials without drones.
I have always used HOTAS, and yesterday just for test, I configured my mouse and keyboard and went to check it on a navigation beacon. Despite my setup is not completely configurated for M&K (I did not even map pip controls on the keyboard) and I am very far from being used to it I landed about double hits with railguns than using hotas.
And not only that, I tested stabilzing a ship that is pitching or rolling fast, and with the stick I have to be very precise making a force in the opposite direction. With K&M a light force on the opposite dirrection or a light key pulsation, almost stabilize the ship completely, and this is a fact, is not something I am inventing.
So, our propposal of giving stick users some little "love" is perfectly reasonable.
I have always used HOTAS, and yesterday just for test, I configured my mouse and keyboard and went to check it on a navigation beacon. Despite my setup is not completely configurated for M&K (I did not even map pip controls on the keyboard) and I am very far from being used to it I landed about double hits with railguns than using hotas.
And not only that, I tested stabilzing a ship that is pitching or rolling fast, and with the stick I have to be very precise making a force in the opposite direction. With K&M a light force on the opposite dirrection or a light key pulsation, almost stabilize the ship completely, and this is a fact, is not something I am inventing.
So, our propposal of giving stick users some little "love" is perfectly reasonable.
@Ant_Solo
no i claim the following
relative mouse: it calculates in a genius way how much counter rotation should be given that the ship does what the pilots points to with the mouse moves
and it does this on the fly constantly
its a master piece of software engineering. basically it stores the other prior moves and calculates the trust needed to control the rotation for the actual move
and it does this all the time
thats the reason you can stop a rotation after a full flip in a second and its hard as hell to do the same with a stick. you will oversteer and need much more time to be stable again even if you are good.
no i claim the following
relative mouse: it calculates in a genius way how much counter rotation should be given that the ship does what the pilots points to with the mouse moves
and it does this on the fly constantly
its a master piece of software engineering. basically it stores the other prior moves and calculates the trust needed to control the rotation for the actual move
and it does this all the time
thats the reason you can stop a rotation after a full flip in a second and its hard as hell to do the same with a stick. you will oversteer and need much more time to be stable again even if you are good.
Deleted member 192138
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The assertion that relative mouse offers a "stabiliser" effect remains factually unsupported.
The mouse has the following advantages:
1. Mechanically, the mouse can be moved with fingertips a very precise amount. Repeating accurate movements on the joystick through the arm requires more movement with a less precise tool (it floats back on springs, so you must use muscle memory to maintain a precise position, until you release and then it comes to a stop). The ability to change DPI on the mouse adds to this, though joystick curves are available for joysticks with third party software which can achieve similar goals.
2. A joystick rotates around a fixed centre point which it returns to on springs. To centre output command interpreted by the game, the joystick must physically be centred (simply taking your hand off will allow the spring to do this). On a mouse the notion of a calibrated centre for movement is a virtual imposition achieved through software. Relative mouse dampens/disables this software imposition depending on relative mouse rate. It is the restriction up to removal of a software layer, not the addition of one. With relative mouse the centring of output can be immediate to the point at which the mouse is no longer moving - so input can have a direct translation to output effecting rotational direction.
This video demonstrates the effects of relative mouse by showing a NohBoard mouse widget to show physical mouse movement, the in game mouse widget to demonstrate the game's translated control output, in addition to its effects on ship movement at a variety of relative mouse settings both in and out of flight assist:
The joystick has the following advantages:
1. It maintains output through sustaining a physically held position, whereas for a mouse to maintain output a software interface must be used to remember it's position relative to a virtual centre point. When you enable relative mouse you turn off or dampen this effect - output is re-centred without continued movement. Without a relative mouse toggle this means that without infinite arm length on an infinite surface, a mouse user is significantly restricted to the point of unplayability if toggling FAOn or whilst in supercruise - and so must use alternate controls for absolute rotation. So if you choose to learn FAOn reverse toggling, which is exceptionally powerful in the right hands, this is much more practical with a stick than for a relative mouse user.
2. A stick user always has access to analogue input for rotations which doesn't interrupt directional thrust output. If a relative mouse user wants to sustain rotational output (e.g. when correcting a spin out) it generally means they have to revert to digital keyboard input - which is absolute and binary (two or three key presses maintained for the different rotational axes), without the granularity and precision of an analogue controller. In addition to which you either have to remove your hand from your mouse for delayed response time, or you use the hand you'd use for directional thrust and therefore miss out on being able to control vector correction while doing so.
This means that each control input has certain mechanical restrictions and advantages versus each other. They will lend themselves better or worse to certain situations and ships, depending on use case. In almost all cases these mechanical differences can be met and overcome by practise and developing an appropriate control scheme for your needs. When considering what control input to use, especially if you're thinking of spending additional money beyond the stock mouse and keyboard a PC user probably already has, research what you want to do and what suits your needs. Base your decision on quality information and demonstrable facts rather than assuming more cost=more quality=a shortcut to success without needing to develop the skills to use a given control input.
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This was posted in the thread from two days ago:
As was this:
L'Intouchable is a respected, non-ganking PVP pilot who has created numerous videos aimed at helping players, he knows what he's talking about.
To avoid any confusion: Tebori has misunderstood how relative mouse works and all his suggestions are based around that misunderstanding.
Deleted member 192138
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Still waiting for literally any proof of this claim beyond watching you boost towards a star without any form of mouse movement indicator.
@Barnard17
as often said here. relative mouse mechanic is not the topic of this thread. its about hotas and hosas in perma fa off rotation.
the relative mouse should and can be kept as it is imho.
as often said here. relative mouse mechanic is not the topic of this thread. its about hotas and hosas in perma fa off rotation.
the relative mouse should and can be kept as it is imho.
Deleted member 121570
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If it's just a case of adding another "easymode" option in the menu for people who're still learning, that's probably helpful if there are people frustrated by this 'issue'.
Otherwise, they could just practice more and they'll manage fine. It's not exactly hard aiming FA off with a HOTAS/HOSAS...
Just seems like a suggestion to add more crutches into the game tbh. Nothing wrong with that though if folks want em / need em and have fun anyway.
Actually, it's even easier than that. Just keep forward speed slow and it's pretty trivial. No need to do anything else.
Otherwise, they could just practice more and they'll manage fine. It's not exactly hard aiming FA off with a HOTAS/HOSAS...
Just seems like a suggestion to add more crutches into the game tbh. Nothing wrong with that though if folks want em / need em and have fun anyway.
Actually, it's even easier than that. Just keep forward speed slow and it's pretty trivial. No need to do anything else.
Deleted member 192138
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If relative mouse is not the topic of this thread please stop circulating misinformation regarding what it does/achieves and how it works.
@Sanderling
i know you are one of the bast racers out there.
but just to prohibit my confusion. you really say aiming rail guns with sticks with rotation is easy in perma fa off. ?
i know you are one of the bast racers out there.
but just to prohibit my confusion. you really say aiming rail guns with sticks with rotation is easy in perma fa off. ?
also for you @Barnard17 we have different opinions here.
so also for you the invite agree to disagree.
so also for you the invite agree to disagree.
I needed the ability to pick a precise location in rough terrain, and drop vertically. Your method isn't as precise unfortunately. Works great for general use though.
Deleted member 192138
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As Sanderling is unlikely to toot his own horn too overtly, as an example of the stability and precision that can be achieved FAOff with sticks (Sanderling is dual stick), here's a little video:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0_AuiG58c
Deleted member 192138
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It's not about opinions it's about facts. I have demonstrated my facts in a video. You have yet to prove anything beyond your individual superior control with mouse than stick.