Saw em Live, just as good as their hbo show or the movie.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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Saw em Live, just as good as their hbo show or the movie.
what 2 hours of cutscenes?
Allegedly from Sqn 42...but nobody really knows how bad it'll be until we see it...if at all
Allegedly from Sqn 42...but nobody really knows how bad it'll be until we see it...if at all
The cutscene/ game ratio is very Kojima.
We already had 1h of Sq42 cutscenes. They just need to do 1 more and slap it together.Allegedly from Sqn 42...but nobody really knows how bad it'll be until we see it...if at all
I'm playing/discovering ED while waiting for SC to be more playable ;-)
Depending on how you view playable, that could mean quite a while!
For me it means being in a releasable state.
I m a bit different. My actual expectations for SCs gameplay are based on the years of promises, sales and hyping CIG and the rabid part of its fanbase have done. As such I dont have the luxury to consider Star Citizens current state "acceptable" like a newcomer who doesnt have my experience or knowledge on this topic. And while 45 dollars might not be "much" for some people its still a considerable amount of money that most folks are working hours for to earn. Its certainly not "nothing" or comparable to actual products or services costing as much.
Obviously Star Citizen right now is a far cry of what it should be. I m always thinking that people who think SC is glorious, great and a better game then game X already are folks who have no idea what the "should be" part is. Mole for example still believes (I think? your recent posts make me wonder buddy) in the projects value but accepts and acknowledges its rocky history and shortcomings. People like him are the exception to be honest.
Most people today who come out with "SC is equal to game X or better" come across like clueless, in denial or as rabid fanboys.
Waiting for Star Citizen to turn into an actual game also is not enough for me. I am far more interested in the videos or articles investigating its development and what really happened in the past years. Even if Star Citizen turns out to be an acceptable game that doesnt change the fact (for me) that CIG openly lied about its state back in 2015, 2016, etc. I value honesty and integrity. The road might be bumpy and hard to traverse but all SC backers are in for the road as well. Only they are not getting it. They are given the shiny parts while the ugly things are hidden, denied and openly refuted.
But then....I also dont buy clothes made by children in asien countries. They might look cool yeah but sorry.....not gonna support such practices.
And thats where Star Citizen falls in for me. Its a prime example for a deceptive, predatory and abysmal development form that should be rejected, not embraced. I am probably beyond redemption in this case. Theres been too much (bad) history for me to be able to sit down and enjoy Star Citizen as the game it might become. Thats not saying that it might not change to the better tho. It might.....regardless how small that chance is. And if Star Citizen turns out to be a good game worth its money and high review scores I will accept it and still NOT play it because I m sure I wouldnt be able to enjoy it based on its track record.
I dont understand what "actually playing the game" has to do in being able to evaluate or discuss it properly like some suggested. Obviously this is really important to many people. But it doesnt matter if I do or dont. People who actually play the game are called haters, trolls or worse if they dont like it. People who held still waiting for a result and eventually turning sour over the years are blamed as being the problem for believing it in the first place. The people who mock, laugh at or ridicule them today are the very same people who years ago held their belief and trust into CIG. At most it seems like people simply search for an excuse to dismiss you. If what you say is true or has merit is not important. I ve seen these witch hunts too often already. If i really tried to "become worthy" of criticism I would waste time, money and my LIFE to fullfill the requirements of some people who are simply not worth it. And I ve already invested more then the average guy by simply following this project for years and posting walls of text.
With the course I can witness (because in the "most transparent project ever" you hardly see anything coming) I dont see Star Citizen going anywhere. Whats currently there is a product but that product is NOT worth the time and money that has gone into it. Its a great deal for people who come in untarnished NOW, who are clueless and just judge SC on its current state (still a bad deal for 45 bucks) but they completely disregard the fact that what they purchase NOW is based on the crushed and abused dreams/trust of thousands before them. People who were taken advantage of. Who were fooled and mislead. I m not going to disregard this. This is important to me.
The Star Citizen community really likes to play the "blame the victim" routine and I refuse that. Its like the current society tries to put the blame for environmental pollution at MY feet. I didnt invent plastic or decided that it should be in everything. Tho I will accept that I m part of the problem so I can counter the course. Its like a perverted version where the inflictor escapes all charges and points finger at the victim. In Star Citizens case its always the person not the project. Too high/unrealistic the expectations. Too uncontrolled the urge to hype and spend money. Disappointment turning into hate etc etc. Theres always a reason to blame or disregard the person mounting the charges. And on the same account there is no limit to the justifications or excuses for Star Citizen to free it of any blame or guilt. Too ambitious, too complex, ahead of its time etc etc. Its disgusting to see the source of the problem (CIG and Chris Roberts) being given a free pass and even been protected from all (deserved) criticism.
When after 8 years of active development and close to 400 million dollars spent somebody comes up with the simple question "WHY IS STAR CITIZEN SO BAD?" we dont need to discuss the length of development or how long other games have required. We dont need to consider how long that person has been a backer or how much he invested (even tho it might provide context). We dont need to discuss or adress theoretical future-scenarios that are simply non-existing right now. And we dont need to evaluate and judge OTHER games that have nothing to do with SCs current state. I dont think its a surprise that ED comes up so often in this forum. Its the easiest way to distract and disregard but its really not important how "shallow" or "disappointing" ED is in all this.
Answering this simple question is really really hard to do when you are constantly bombarded with denial, dismissal, disrespect, distraction and personal attacks.
There might be good reasons for Star Citizens bad current state but we are not told any of them. We are given excuses and far fetched theories and mostly not even by CIG but by private people who dont have any more insight then we do. Official replies rather make the impression that even the developers on the project have no idea what they are talking about or what Star Citizen is going to be. Its like they permanently "wing it" and know that full well so everybody is really careful in what they say and usually statements contradict each other or mean something else then what they are meant to mean.
We are not as clueless and innocent as we have been in 2014. The years have revealed something that look really ugly and suspicious in hindsight. As such we have answers with a high probability today that point to incompetemce. deception, abuse and all kinds of negative things within Star Citizens development. Those probabilities are as high as they can be but STILL people who dont want to see them will find ways and excuses to disregard them. And they dont stop there either. Because that would mean they would simply ignore you and your opinion. Instead we have so many examples of people coming here and trying to shut this forum up. Take any comment section out there. There WILL be somebody coming out of the woodworks trying to negate your view (mostly by attacking you directly) or countering your arguments with pages upon pages of fluff talk.
I gotta say that the enablers of the Star Citizen debacle have progressed as well over the years. You still have the fanatical hot-headed youngster trying to shut you down but they are at best an annoyance today. The people who really invest time and effort into countering your input are the threat. People who use every known trick and tool in the box to "win that argument". They are good with words and they are articulate. They even come across polite or likable to fool you. But a single carelessness is all it takes and they go for the kill. You can talk with them but really....you are wasting your time. They dont listen. They dont even acknowledge. Their sole intend is to crush you. Its frustrating because I certainly have fallen victim to many of these folks.
Star Marine has been outsourced and been the reason for delay and resource waste. People are eager and willing to blame the other company for it but fact is that it happened. And blaming somebody else doesnt change the fact that it happened. Back in 2016 Chris Robert is on record announcing a game release in the coming months. This happened. We dont need to talk about what changed or what problems came up. I mean we do and we did but none of the excuses provided justify the fact that Chris Roberts openly lied to his community. The SC project is full of such examples. Why do you think "delay" or "weeks, not months" are an actual meme in Star Citizen?
Its always cute to acome across the new face who actually believes this project is going anywhere or making good progress even tho they have no idea what they are talking about. Its also predictable that when I engage with somebody like that the course of the discussion will ultimately steer to me being called a hater and him being called a cultist (as demonstrated lately in this very forum). Its like generational chasm where all the things he praises and thinks are cool and groundbreaking, are an old hat to me only that I have the advantage of history remembering that I was just like that. Hopeful, naive, clueless. And waiting or allowing for more time never has fixed the problems or made SC better.
Unquestioned support at best has resulted in the massive bloat and scope creep we can observe for years now. But with the fanatical response to any criticism directed at CIG and the project I m not sure questions or open dissent would ve helped. For all we know this is exactly what happened. The first "big blip" was Derek Smart and people havent really "shut up" since then but the disregard or manipulation of facts has always been present.
First by CIG later picked up by its most fervered white knights and I believe there currently even is a "bible" of some sorts answering the most typical questions and critics with step-by-step justifications when I watch the usual replies on comment sections. You could really go so far as to blame CIG for the current fanatical behavior of some or the disonance in perception for mundane things like the start of development or anything else really. There always is a ready excuse for SCs bad state, a reason to blame for delays or why the dream is so far away. We are at the point where nothing might change the view of some people. Not even a collapse of the project would convince them this was always a soap bubble. Already people are heralding the idea that its the "haters and their lies" which will topple Star Citizen. I dont think anything would have changed if the hard questions would ve been embraced or the criticism ramping up earlier. The "trench war" we currently have simply would have come into existence earlier, thats all but the course most probably would ve stayed the same.
Sometimes when I manage to step back far enough and consider that we are talking about a video game here, its shocking to realize how "far gone" some people are and in Star Citizens case it must be a concentration of deluded people who still cling on or innocents that dont yet know what they got themselves into. Obviously I m not talking about people who "cling on but know about the problems". But there are so many who universally dismiss every red flag, every negative fact. Everything in order to keep SC on that pedestal. Anything to keep the impossible dream alive, facts and criticism be damned. And Star Citizen depends on those people. Which is why its not in early access yet. Because Star Citizen cannot transport the expectations and value that would mirror 8 years and 400 million dollars. It instead requires aggressive and misleading advertisement and I dont think its a coincidence that most people act like you can only play ONE game at any given time and "Star Citizen is it" so every other game is bad, sad, pathetic, shallow, worse. I m always reminded of fanatics when I talk to SC white knights. They act like there is only one correct choice in video gaming and they are doing it. They are right and whoever thinks different is wrong. The smart ones even come out by saying exactly that
"Hey, just take a break and play another game. There are so many great games, dont need to limit yourself to one alone". But that doesnt change the message one bit. Translation: Just go away and distract yourself with another, lesser game that is inferior to Star Citizen in every possible way. Come back when SC is ready to blow your mind.
Its hard to not poke those people and most become angry instead of realizing what they do. Its cruel sometimes but most of the time its funny as hell ^^
I don't know if you react to my post but I am a long time backer (since 2013) and I know a lot about the game (fond of tech aspect of SC). When I say I enjoy the game in its current state, it's genuinely true even if I have at least the same knowledge of the project as you. 45 $ is a lot for some but you talk about the game like a finished product. The 45 dollar you talk about are a pledge for a game that 'will' be released, not the actual one. What you have bought is the game 'released' (notice the quote), not the game now. You can participate to the alpha, but the alpha is not the game. I know you didn't like it here, but the current, long promised and delayed alpha is not "the game". "The game" will come in x years. The main difference between you and me, is I will wait patiently those x years. And I know I've already made a good investment because for 45 $ I already had 45 hours of fun game. 1$ by hour of fun is more than a lot of AAA games I've bought.
are pretty void statements if you only listen to people from this forum or forum alike. From some communities I talk too, I honestly can say too "People like Mole are the majority." A well known french community "Canard PC" have for instance good mitigate points of view about the game (nor haters, nor fans) and is full of people like Mole.
You do generalization here. You will find bad people in every games. I am a player of SC posting here and I haven't called one of you "hater, troll or worse". It's the same ingame. The worse I can tell is "so this game is not for you". It's the same in others forum too. For sure if you say SC is crap on the reddit dedicated to SC you will not be listened. But if a player come to the ED reddit to do the same, it will not be listened too. If a player come to the ED channel in game just to explain how bored he is and why, It will be dismissed, nothing more natural. And it's of no use to explain to a player whom enjoy a game why he should not enjoy the game. The SC's forums are full of those players enjoying the game.
they are not told here because no-one is really willing to hear them, just simple as that.
the same sentence apply to haters and fanboys of SC. The haters "CR mansion" trick is as bad as the fanboy "never done before" trick .
all players deep following the project have the same infos. The answers they give come from the same source and are often the same.
they are not excuses but explanations. It's complex, the project had/have it's fair amount of mistakes and mismanagement, they were small at the beginning, the engine was not the good one, CR is too perfectionist and makes everyone loose time, etc. So what ? I have fun with the game but I should tell everyone to stop playing it because I want CIG to fire CR ? Or jump in my time machine to come back in 2012 to tell CR to choose Unreal instead of Cryengine ?
I and a lot of my friends know all the red flags you talk about. We don't dismiss them at all. But you know what ? We play and enjoy the game since several months and poured a lot of hours played in it, even if we know all those problems. So what ? We have to stop having fun because we know CIG is slow and that the game would be much better directed by CD project ?
ask some normal SC gamer if he put SC on a pedestal. Not me nor my friends.
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Call me crazy, but when I describe a game as “playable and enjoyable,” it’s also a game I want to play as much as possible. It’s a game where I need to set an alarm to remind me to go to bed at night, and then a second alarm because just “one more turn,” “one more run,” or “five more minutes” turns out to be anything but. It’s a game that, on my days off, I fail to meet my “standing goal” on my watch for the day.
I don’t think I’ve ever said something on the order of “I love this game! I try to avoid playing it as much as possible!”
Never been done before!“I love this game! I try to avoid playing it as much as possible!”
Because it's not a game yet, it's an alpha and not finished. You can't play an alpha, you test it. CIG let us test/see it because we are backers and want to know where our money is going. CIG have stated if they had a choice, they would never have given us access to the Alpha and I feel the same way. It's not for everyone to enjoy a game not finished where you can loose all your progress. The good thing is a lot of the SC "gameplay" do not rely on progress. The life simulation is enjoyable on its own.Call me crazy, but when I describe a game as “playable and enjoyable,” it’s also a game I want to play as much as possible. It’s a game where I need to set an alarm to remind me to go to bed at night, and then a second alarm because just “one more turn,” “one more run,” or “five more minutes” turns out to be anything but. It’s a game that, on my days off, I fail to meet my “standing goal” on my watch for the day.
I don’t think I’ve ever said something on the order of “I love this game! I try to avoid playing it as much as possible!”
I am a longer time backer since before kickstarter and since you are talking about you pay 45$ for a game "released" I want to inform you that at the end of the kickstarter coampaing CR said that the game would have been "released" in 2014. And please avoid the usual rubbish words used by citizens like " increased scope", " they have to build a company first" "they are making 2 AAAA games" etc.
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No. The "never been done before" is a lie. The mansion is not.
When advocating for it, you say it's a great playable game. Then when criticism comes, you say the criticism is invalid because it's not a game.
Why doesn't the roadmap go further than three months? Why isn't a single planet or moon on the roadmap? Why is only one "core tech" item on the roadmap?
SC is in a superposition of states. When you say it is garbage, then it is "alfa", when you say that it has to be released 6 yeras ago, hey! "it has already been released"
I hate to break it to you, but I’ve played quite a few games that were in a playable Alpha state, starting with Minecraft. Not once did I ever think to myself, “Ugh! Do I have to play this game?” Instead, it was always “I can’t wait to play it again!”
The whole point of a playable Alpha is to get many people playing your game as much as possible, since they’ll stumble upon the game-breaking bugs that your internal QA team will inevitably miss, so they can be patched ASAP.
Edited to fix a weird auto fill
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lol, good luck on this being a successful strategy for anything in life.