Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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One backer did pursue a refund through the courts - and lost his case because the holding of the court was - as CI-G represented and declared - in court - that they had in fact released the game as a commercial product and no refund was due
The reasoning was that the provided pledge was used up in order to produce Star Citizen in its current form. As such the court decided that the refundee wasnt eligible for a refund. This courtcase also marked the end of refunds from CIG officially
It seems CIG did pretty much argue that he had received a product:
But like you say, the judge ruled that the current arbitration steer in the TOS held, so it looks like that stuff wasn’t really tested in court as such.
"Unearned portions" my rear. We know in which handbags those portions vanished.
It refills on its support. But it's a good idea, CIG should add a hose card on the roadmap.
And you are looking at PTU videos, not PU.
Did he finally get out? I stopped paying attention.
If there is something you don't understand due to language, just ignore it. We'll all move on.
I'm looking forward to all issues being fixed in the PU!
Went and looked, he didnt. Unless it happened in the past 2 months.
mmm, seen a few videos. In all honesty I'm not sure what the fuss is about with the bartender, the mo-cap animations are ok but don't sync too well with the path-finding stuff in which he turns like a tank to move to different way-points in the bar with that uncanny staring ahead thing he might as well be a robot. It looks a heck of a lot stranger than other games npcs. The recent cyberpunk trailer had a more proficiently realised bar that kind of makes this look dated. I can't see the point in ordering different beverages though, is it just for role playing purposes? It just feels fussy and a good analagy for the problem with the game's scope over substance design.
In fact, it looks like someone performing for mo-cap with exagerated movements that just look strange. Imagine you were watching a film and you had to wait for a character to serve drinks like that "what will it be?", turns to bottles, steps forward a few times until he reaches marker, begins to turn... stops staring straight ahead while his arms stop rocking, reaches out to get first bottle and glass, invokes "mixing animation", finishes staring just ahead, picks up drink and begins to turn...etc You would think they hired idiot actors or directors.
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Not sure anyone shared here this:
Hello Games put out a new FREE update for NMS.
Hello Games put out a new FREE update for NMS.
Nothing to see here 
Source: https://clips.twitch.tv/BlatantLuckyEggplantOneHand
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp0HTypBDSw
Early days of UI development.
Early days of UI development.
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That long exchange with LittleAnt was interesting.
LittleAnt lost me here.
And further explained himself. What he described was pretty much a donation. Comparing CIG to a non-profit organization doing reserch, getting stickers for his funding. Those organizations doing medical research doesn't guarantee a cure, its research in the hope of finding a cure. Pretty accurate parallel with how he talked about CIG so far.
Then LittleAnt went on and said.
You (LittleAnt) didn't misue 'donation', from what you've been posting, 'donation' pretty acurately decribed how you view money spent on CIG. The same with may other backers who visited here. It's interesting and gave me a deeper glimpse into the mind of a backer, nothing wrong with it.
LittleAnt lost me here.
And further explained himself. What he described was pretty much a donation. Comparing CIG to a non-profit organization doing reserch, getting stickers for his funding. Those organizations doing medical research doesn't guarantee a cure, its research in the hope of finding a cure. Pretty accurate parallel with how he talked about CIG so far.
Then LittleAnt went on and said.
You (LittleAnt) didn't misue 'donation', from what you've been posting, 'donation' pretty acurately decribed how you view money spent on CIG. The same with may other backers who visited here. It's interesting and gave me a deeper glimpse into the mind of a backer, nothing wrong with it.
what's the point?
and moreover what's so fashinating about this. It is simply some scripted mocapped actions triggered by some player choices. A bad programmer can put this together in a fiew days of work, may be a fiew hours.
3.10 patch : update of the ocean shader : reflection of the sun
Both came from a game called Empyrion: Galactic Survival, which has a development team of seven people, supported solely through early access sales. Do I think these screen shots look as good as SC's? No. Do I think the difference is worth almost $400 million, 500+ developers, and nine years of development? Definitely not. Especially when EGS has actual game play loops: mining, combat, survival gameplay (hunting, gathering, farming), base building, ship building, ground vehicle building, salvage, mission running, faction reputations to manage, trading, planetary exploration, system exploration, and now a procedurally created galaxy to explore, which will be different every play through.
What I wanted from Star Citizen, when I backed it in 2012, was a game to play in 2014, which was the date we were promised. Where is it? Where did all the frelling money go, because it certainly didn't go into game play. How much of it wasted by redoing the same work over and over again? How much of it was wasted on richly decorated development studios in extremely expensive cities? How much of it was wasted on extravagant marketing stunts? How much of it went into the pockets of the Roberts family and friends?
The bartender is a test bed for all AI in game.
I can tell you more for what the devs wants to achieve with the bartender but not all those features exist yet in the actual bartender. I will try to test which one have been done.
The bartender manage real stocks (bottles in fridge for instance). Every element used is counted. If the fridge is empty he should say he can't do your beverage and launch restock order to the server (the bartender AI will do it, not a script tied to the fridge)
He had no scripted routes. He will search the fridge and go to it by himself from where he is when needed. When he takes your order, he should seek you to give it to you when done. If you have moved and took a sit 5 m away, the bartender have to detect the small door closing the bar, open it and pass the bar to give you your order. All those events not predefined. He have to recognize all its surroundings, don't collide with others NPC/PC and put the bottle in the right place where you are (the table if you have take a sit for instance). He should be able to get back the empty glass too.
When you command a multi elements beverage, he doesn't execute a full script but follow a recipe (whiskey, next ice cube, next water). The animation suite is dynamicaly launched.
A part of the animations are not in mocap or hard scripted but calculated. Ex : the movement to the fridge should be natural from 2m, 2.1m, 2.2m, 2.3m, 2.4m, etc (no moon walk). I have a good video about it from SQ42. I will post it later.
He constantly detects pnj and players in its surrounding and their localisations. For ex, if you pass behind the bar, he shouts at you to get out (seen in video).
He will be able to show emotions and analyze you. If you stink (no shower since several days), he can refuse to serve you.
He can queue orders. If 2 npc ask beers before you, you have to wait, you will be the third to be served.
The bartender and the NPCs will interact by themselve. We should see bartender getting orders from NPC.
He can be used as a mission giver or receiver and should have a good stock of sentences to say.
That's the plan. Dev have said that some of those features are already used for combat. For instance NPC will seek soon for ammo box when out of ammo (shown in video).
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Dont diss the most expensive bartender ever ! It's worth tens of millions of $$ of intensive "AI research". Backer money well spent.
(yeah, for that price, they discovered queuing of queries and pre-determined sequences of motions... dont complain ! Most innovative development ever ! No one else has done that before !)
It's one of the examples i tend to give to people that say such games cannot exist outside CiG and CRobert's mind. What's interesting is while Empyrion is still in beta, it's quite polished in all existing aspects, and shows gameplay progression. No falling through geometries, no constant crashes, no killer doors and ladders, no stupidly broken physics engine (etc.) that plague SC - how many more decades will we have to endure those ?. Empyrion a bit more "surival" oriented than say, NMS, so not my cup of tea, but by itself it's a good product.
I guess this is as good time as any to ask a somewhat pertinent question: has the bartender at any point exhibited — in the actual game or in any of the theorycrafting — anything remotely resembling AI behaviour? And why on earth would you waste it on something as trivial and unnecessary as a bartender, of all things?!
Because none of the things you describe here really qualify beyond some laughably simplistic path finding.
What is the Bartender going to do when he get's a Big Bennys machine dumped on top of him?
Anyone who puts ice or water in my whisky deserves much, much worse, actually.
Stock managment is pathfiding ? Following recipes is pathfiding ?
No. Stock management is a simple variable check. Following a recipe is iterating through a list. Neither is AI.