Fleet Carriers - Patch 3 - Known Issues

[K-nours]

Of course it's true to some extend, there are many factors that impact the current state of gaming industry products.

Of course it just my point of view, and I'm aware there is lot of parameters that leeds to this state of the today gaming industry. The presure made by investissor to produce more and more and to reduce the development cost is one of them. The competition between company to be the first to make an anoucement is an other. And the time to market is also important, there is key date that you shoudn't miss to release a product like september when player are back from vacation and needs new game to help them to face the work. And december of course, because of christmas I presume.
The software industry is a complex monster, and the gamming industry is the final boss.

 

[Luftwaffle_]

I've stopped playing until they fix this crap. I was on a mission to check a hundred-ish systems for planetary rings so I can make a hotspot database and find the best rings, but I'm not going to risk losing days of progress if the patch to this epic fail of a patch ends up re-rolling hotspots or something.

 

[Just Ice]

I've stopped playing until they fix this crap. I was on a mission to check a hundred-ish systems for planetary rings so I can make a hotspot database and find the best rings, (...)

I hope you have seen this already:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteMiners/comments/gzqiao

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteMiners/comments/gzqiao/psa_scouting_effort_rings_inventory_2020/


I admit to somehow have missed this project.
I have been creating my own database for some time after the last HS reshuffle, luckily mostly outside the bubble - i would be a waste of my time otherwise.

 

[Gibbon]

You people are amazing.

You can have
- quickly released patch with inevitable new bugs (done in a hurry and not enough tested)
or
- delayed but thoroughly tested patch, with higher chance to fix current issues without breaking many others accidentally.

Chance for a quick and proper patch is like chance to find a lot of LTD in LTD hotspot atm

PS. Of course there is possibility that FD manages to release a "late" patch that is bugged up to the teeth anyway.
But it does not falsify the above statement which is generally true.

The problem with nearly all patches released by FD over the last few years is that most of them are rubbish, and simply screw up more than they fix. Their idea of testing a patch is way different to most peoples idea. Current state of the game is appalling to be honest.

 

[Just Ice]

The problem with nearly all patches released by FD over the last few years is that most of them are rubbish, and simply screw up more than they fix. Their idea of testing a patch is way different to most peoples idea. Current state of the game is appalling to be honest.

We have to notice, there are really two different issues/subjects that are somehow mixed in this thread.

With exception of some persistent/lately introduced bugs present in some specific mission/activities/commodity types context, I absolutely have no impression that ED is in any way bugged above average. I would even say, that most games with similar scale of complexity I have played were usually plagued by much more annoying "random" bugs.

My real problem with ED is the stubbornness of developers and their attitude towards community.
Over the years there were several INTENTIONAL changes that were implemented surprisingly, causing a lot of angry reactions, and only few of them were rolled back or changed according to the feedback.
Also, game UI seems to be "unfinished" - there are so many in-game options/informational screens missing - after you start using 3rd party tools like Inara, EDDB, EDSM, you actually can't go back and play without them - game seem so crippled without them, that it's actually becoming unplayable. You start to ask yourself, why some options/information can be still missing in game after so many years?

One quick example : why can't we filter stars in GalMap by (un)discovered status?

I have to make some absurd workaround, like this one to make a list of possible undiscovered systems nearby:

I am manually browsing list of systems in my nav tab and

compare them one by one with "nearest systems" tab in EDDiscovery (3rd party tool for PC).

When I find system that is visible in my NavTab, but not in EDDis, it means it is uknown to EDSM

Now, to avoid having to manually write down the system name, I create nav route to it to trigger an event that EDDis can notice
(through GalMap, setting destination from NavTab and charging FSD doesn't trigger required event in log)

Then I have to select "copy to log" from journal entry in EDDis, to get a text output containing selectable system name inside

Then I have to find this name in text, select, copy to clipboard

and finally I can paste it to "Exploring" tab in EDDis, which is a de facto "route plan" for me.

And after all this steps, systems I have picked this way usually turn out to be only unknown to EDSM, in game are already discovered.

So, my NavTab sees alls systems around me, even "undiscovered" but I have no option to filter them from the rest.

And THIS is my real problem with ED.

It could give you SO MUCH better game experience.
But no, because why should the players have it the pleasant way?


A wasted potential.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

I have played since the release (I missed pre-release betas unfortunately), then had some break, then I came back.

Curious to understand your unfitting positivism
How long was your break and when did you get back?

 

[Just Ice]

Curious to understand your unfitting positivism
How long was your break and when did you get back?

Haha, if you live long enough, you have chance to learn to make the best out of things you get
The other option is becoming a grumpy old man, which I try to avoid, but I can see a lot of forum members going down this way

I think I have left ED sometime around Guardians update.
And came back in 2019.
So, It seems like I have been playing three out of six years of ED timeline, missed the middle part.

Still, over the last year I had more fun then over the first two years.
This is why I see it like this: problem is not in "game became broken over the years", but some people have just burned out...
Or expect too much.

 

[Frankymole]

Remember that Braben wrote the first Elite game in year 1984, you could write the whole game alone at this time

cough with Ian Bell cough

 

[Sgt Dartez]

Hey Commanders,

We have an update on our progress on the OP!

Thanks

Is there any general ETA for when we might see a fix on these issues?

Thanks.

 

[Just Ice]

"In year 1984 (...) "you could write the whole game alone".
Doesn't mean Braben did it with Elite

Ian Bell is the very reason, why I haven't simply wrote "Braben wrote Elite alone", it just wouldn't be true

 

[Just Ice]

But you are right, Braben was more of designer/co-programmer, Bell was the assembler coding nerd

Doesn't really change much, as I already wrote I was just wondering if Braben's early start and long time experience in developing games in whatever role (programmer/designer/manager) could be paradoxically counter-productive after tools and hardware/software environment have changed so much.
"Obsolete" know-how could have resulted in choices that eventually made ED so "fragile" to any changes in code/content.

Yes, it is very stretched theory.

 

[through the hole backwards]

rubbish

 

[Dutchman141]

Hey Commanders,

We have an update on our progress on the OP!

Thanks

Xbox got the update, without any fixes, I want to stress though that there's still no difference between performance vs quality setting on the Xbox One X in 4k, all quality effects are gone.

 

[JeffMelton]

I was a Marine Corps fighter pilot and I really like the game when it is working. I am running out of patience though and looking for something else to play in my retirement. Oh, yes I am retired.

Thank you for your service to our Great country. I agree that the game should work for our enjoyment and not our frustration. And tbh I would have those kinds of hours if i could lol.

 

[DRaven4135]

@FDev... It would be great if upkeep could be suspended untill Tritium can be found. Carriers are useless if they cant move anywhere. Please hurry up with the patch. Carrier upkeep is a waste of credits at the moment.

 

[avch]

[QUOTE = "photomankc, сообщение: 8596555, участник: 234826"]
При этом не упоминается, что абразивный бластер больше не работает на керне, если вы использовали какой-либо другой метод добычи перед установкой зарядов.
[/ QUOTE]
Точно, не работает. Правда, не обратил внимание - до использования других методов или нет

 

[hydlided]

My real problem with ED is the stubbornness of developers and their attitude towards community.

I will have to grab this sentence and dive right into this subject... because. Well there is a lot of explaining that needs to be done here I think. So bare with me.

First of all, I am not a Frontier Employee, nor am I related with any of this (I play the game, and that is it). So just throwing that out in the open so you know where I personally stand with a sentence like this.

Your real problem is "stubbornness of developers" and you will probably will say "they don't listen to us customers...". Most likely. Well...gotcha...Here is partially the problem with gaming development (and development in a general sense, and I will quote myself from a youtube video I did about sounddesign):

"You cannot please everyone"

The developers do not have an agenda by their own. They are basically told by a product owner, or buisness manager: "develop these features in this way because we think it has potential value there".

In a way, developers themselves are just like workers that sit in a factory. They write code to please the needs of the guys who employed them. And this is why I am kind of upset while watching all this "FDEV is screwing things up... yada yada" nonsense. A developer is asked to do a task. Nothing more, and nothing less. So don't ask questions, just do your job type of thing. That is the developer their task.

I think the majority of the problem lies in the product owner of ED, the investors that want to push ED in a specific direction, and company owners that have a share holder stake in the whole thing. If you want to blame some one, I would blame investors... because they usually decide the direction on where the game needs to go to... because they invested money into so they have a certain amount of expectation (and if you would say there are no investors in Frontier... well... there are at least that is what I get from their annual PDF files).

Investors are dangerous people from where I look at (outside of the box). They invest in a company because they want to have an amount of revenue from their... here it comes: investment. So they come up with these crazy theories : "look at what this game is doing, it is making millions". And all they do is look at Star Citizen, because that game is making millions. So here we are, FPS action is coming to Elite dangerous (because SC is doing a similar thing), FC's are here because it needed to be flushed out to get a steady player base going (hence the upkeep cost). And most high-up people at Frontier probably realized that the game is unbalanced because everyone is doing just one task, and one task only... Mining.

So I am the only developer who understands this? Ok, I think I got that part covered too.

 

[Wlfric]

I will have to grab this sentence and dive right into this subject... because. Well there is a lot of explaining that needs to be done here I think. So bare with me.

First of all, I am not a Frontier Employee, nor am I related with any of this (I play the game, and that is it). So just throwing that out in the open so you know where I personally stand with a sentence like this.

Your real problem is "stubbornness of developers" and you will probably will say "they don't listen to us customers...". Most likely. Well...gotcha...Here is partially the problem with gaming development (and development in a general sense, and I will quote myself from a youtube video I did about sounddesign):

"You cannot please everyone"

The developers do not have an agenda by their own. They are basically told by a product owner, or buisness manager: "develop these features in this way because we think it has potential value there".

In a way, developers themselves are just like workers that sit in a factory. They write code to please the needs of the guys who employed them. And this is why I am kind of upset while watching all this "FDEV is screwing things up... yada yada" nonsense. A developer is asked to do a task. Nothing more, and nothing less. So don't ask questions, just do your job type of thing. That is the developer their task.

I think the majority of the problem lies in the product owner of ED, the investors that want to push ED in a specific direction, and company owners that have a share holder stake in the whole thing. If you want to blame some one, I would blame investors... because they usually decide the direction on where the game needs to go to... because they invested money into so they have a certain amount of expectation (and if you would say there are no investors in Frontier... well... there are at least that is what I get from their annual PDF files).

Investors are dangerous people from where I look at (outside of the box). They invest in a company because they want to have an amount of revenue from their... here it comes: investment. So they come up with these crazy theories : "look at what this game is doing, it is making millions". And all they do is look at Star Citizen, because that game is making millions. So here we are, FPS action is coming to Elite dangerous (because SC is doing a similar thing), FC's are here because it needed to be flushed out to get a steady player base going (hence the upkeep cost). And most high-up people at Frontier probably realized that the game is unbalanced because everyone is doing just one task, and one task only... Mining.

So I am the only developer who understands this? Ok, I think I got that part covered too.

Can I explain to the developer that when you make a game with insane upkeep costs and low income per hour of work in the fields of trade, missions, bounty hunting, xeno hunting, exploration, and mercenary work and ONE thing with a payout greatly more efficient per hour of human time invested (my time is valuable) it is only reasonable to expect that ONE thing to be the focus among players?
How to fix this? Nerf the one thing to be just as low payout as the rest off them? Then people find something else to invest their time in because we already have jobs.
Raise the per hour of effort reward for ALL other things? Well, they don't seem to want to do that.
Lower the insane end game pricing? Well, no, that's not going to happen either.
But, mister Developer, I would ask you to get out of developer mode and into economics. People will ALWAYS migrate to the area of ANYTHING that has the highest cost/benefit ratio. In this case the cost of time and the benefit of credits.

FYI.. I am not in this for the $$ at this time. I just want my tritium back without having to play the spinny rock minigame for hours to get a few LY. But it irks me when someone comes in and acts like its some kinda mystery why everyone would want to spend all their time mining rocks instead of other things. It's the payouts. Simple. Get the credits to back up your carrier/rebuy costs/etc THEN go and play other aspects of the game that are obviously not done for the credit payout.

 

[hydlided]

Can I explain to the developer that when you make a game with insane upkeep costs and low income per hour of work in the fields of trade, missions, bounty hunting, xeno hunting, exploration, and mercenary work and ONE thing with a payout greatly more efficient per hour of human time invested (my time is valuable) it is only reasonable to expect that ONE thing to be the focus among players?

If you ask this to a developer then the answer is: "don't ask, I am told to make these changes".

So how does this comply with your answer? Seriously, I have been dealing with these type of dilemas : "ALL THE TIME"... hence, I don't work for a game studio these days. so .. please. players? who gives a crap about players... if it gets money in, screw players... the are just players... and they complain alot. So there is marketing for you. go bug them.

 

[alexzk]

So here we are, FPS action is coming to Elite dangerous (because SC is doing a similar thing), FC's are here because it needed to be flushed out to get a steady player base going (hence the upkeep cost). And most high-up people at Frontier probably realized that the game is unbalanced because everyone is doing just one task, and one task only... Mining.

Well, I think ...looking on fc/tritium, that will be a bit shooter, but mostly used to load cargo in ship by hands. Imagine so much fun loading 700t, clicking each one and dragging . Repeat 700 times.