David Braben talking about FDev generally, and Elite Dangerous specifically (timestamp 6m05s)

[[VR] optimal_909]

It's not been removed.

Only 1.9% of steam users have VR, catering to less than one in fifty of your potential customers is a bad idea. Once VR gear improves and has wider support straight out of the box it'll pick up, for now its an extremely niche thing.

This idea has been discussed already, Elite is one of the top VR games games, so VR share must be far above that average Steam VR users. By that metric the graphics and lighting should remain optimized to a GTX 1060 as by far the majority of users don't have anything better.

Also, VR headset pricing is now comparable to monitors, so it is hardly a super expensive thing now. It will remain enthusiast gear, sure, like 4k or 144hz monitors.

The point everyone is trying to make that 1. Elite was adverised as built for VR 2. VR is the cutting edge of the experience 3. Most of Elite's great community driven content was driven by old-timer enthusiasts with large VR share, they are being driven out from the game.

VR is now a must in the sim world and most developer acknowledge it. But we needed broader FPS scope for a spaceship sim that is being criticized for being 'mile wide and inch deep' instead of focusing on the core experience that made it unique (visuals, scale and flight physics). Again, for this I can't blame FDev as this was the popular request -

 

[Stigbob]

This idea has been discussed already, Elite is one of the top VR games games, so VR share must be far above that average Steam VR users. By that metric the graphics and lighting should remain optimized to a GTX 1060 as by far the majority of users don't have anything better.

Also, VR headset pricing is now comparable to monitors, so it is hardly a super expensive thing now. It will remain enthusiast gear, sure, like 4k or 144hz monitors.

The point everyone is trying to make that 1. Elite was adverised as built for VR 2. VR is the cutting edge of the experience 3. Most of Elite's great community driven content was driven by old-timer enthusiasts with large VR share, they are being driven out from the game.

VR is now a must in the sim world and most developer acknowledge it. But we needed broader FPS scope for a spaceship sim that is being criticized for being 'mile wide and inch deep' instead of focusing on the core experience that made it unique (visuals, scale and flight physics). Again, for this I can't blame FDev as this was the popular request -

FDEV are the only people who actually know how many of their users have bothered with VR yet, the fact they don't think its worth supporting for oddessy tells you where that percentage is.

They also dropped mac support for similar reasons.

 

[Patrick_68000]

It'll get there, just not yet. It'll also probably become much more user friendly you need plug and play for the mass appeal, and a price drop as you mentioned.

I dream of similar equipment to the size of eyeglasses.

 

[Stigbob]

I dream of similar equipment to the size of eyeglasses.

If you look at the evolution of mobile phones from comedy bricks to what we have now that's not an unrealistic idea at all.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It would have been interesting knowing how ED & FD would have progressed (if at all for the former) if the KS failed. Was it inevitable?

 

[Stigbob]

It would have been interesting knowing how ED & FD would have progressed (if at all for the former) if the KS failed. Was it inevitable?

They used Kickstarter to successfully demonstrate customer interest to investors IIRC. Space games had a two decade hiatus after some very expensive flops, a bit like movies about pirates.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They used Kickstarter to successfully demonstrate customer interest to investors IIRC. Space games had a two decade hiatus after some very expensive flops, a bit like movies about pirates.

I know, but I mean would ED have been different if DB had to burn cash to make up for the lack of KS? ED has been a useful development tool / plank in FDs cross pollination approach, how I wonder would that have been affected, if at all?

 

[Stigbob]

I know, but I mean would ED have been different if DB had to burn cash to make up for the lack of KS? ED has been a useful development tool / plank in FDs cross pollination approach, how I wonder would that have been affected, if at all?

I'm pretty sure FDEV bunged in a lot more dosh than everyone else put together IIRC. Design decisions were probably influenced more by whats possible than where the cash came from either way. They stuck very closely to the pitch so it doesn't seem to have altered anything much.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm pretty sure FDEV bunged in a lot more dosh than everyone else put together IIRC. Design decisions were probably influenced more by whats possible than where the cash came from either way. They stuck very closely to the pitch so it doesn't seem to have altered anything much.

In that case its curious, because KS really nailed FD down with backer promises that caused immense problems later on. I wonder if FD regret KS?

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

FDEV are the only people who actually know how many of their users have bothered with VR yet, the fact they don't think its worth supporting for oddessy tells you where that percentage is.

They also dropped mac support for similar reasons.

Yeah, they dropped support of VR, the Galnet, Community Goals, Powerplay, and the list goes on - all probably sound business decisions.
In fact, they should launch Elite: Mining on mobile, now that would be the best way to reach as many players as possible with lots of $$$.

 

[Stigbob]

In that case its curious, because KS really nailed FD down with backer promises that caused immense problems later on. I wonder if FD regret KS?

I wouldn't call any of it immense problems really. Some people lost it about some fairly trivial stuff like the switch from offline to solo, but the game they released and the things they've added since are very close to the pitched game. Its also very close to the timeline of how things would progress.

Yeah, they dropped support of VR, the Galnet, Community Goals, Powerplay, and the list goes on - all probably sound business decisions.
In fact, they should launch Elite: Mining on mobile, now that would be the best way to reach as many players as possible with lots of $$$.

They haven't dropped support for VR, an upcoming DLC won't support it at launch. Different and far less dramatic kettle of fish entirely.

Had they continued concentrating on the main game it would just feed into the comedy conspiracy theory there's no DLC coming which has been doing the rounds for years despite all the evidence to the contrary. The galnet staff as we know were popped onto the DLC and FC's.

 

[Viajero]

Yeah, they dropped support of VR, the Galnet, Community Goals, Powerplay, and the list goes on - all probably sound business decisions.
In fact, they should launch Elite: Mining on mobile, now that would be the best way to reach as many players as possible with lots of $$$.

As a gamer I would agree those are a bit of a shame (btw some of those we do not even know if it is permanent) but at the same time they have also added all the content in the Beyond Season, followed by the 2019 April and September updates, the January one and now Fleet Carriers. All for free / at no additional cost for example. Probably as "sound", or not.

I guess this kind of comments tend to be a bit narrow as they seem rather focused on a personal dislike/complaint, which is fine, but let´s not forget the bigger picture.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I wouldn't call any of it immense problems really. Some people lost it about some fairly trivial stuff like the switch from offline to solo, but the game they released and the things they've added since are very close to the pitched game. Its also very close to the timeline of how things would progress.

It is interesting to see how things have morphed from pitch to reality. One of the draws for me was modules having unique models (like with thrusters) so you could tell visually what people had equipped. A lot of that went into ship kits, which was a shame but I can see why they did it.

 

[VR Golgot]

It would have been interesting knowing how ED & FD would have progressed (if at all for the former) if the KS failed. Was it inevitable?

I'm pretty sure FDEV bunged in a lot more dosh than everyone else put together IIRC. Design decisions were probably influenced more by whats possible than where the cash came from either way. They stuck very closely to the pitch so it doesn't seem to have altered anything much.

Without the proof of interest that the Kickstarter provided, the base scenario for ED was that it would be a £10 game!

When these scenarios were prepared, the Board assumed a typical average unit price of £10. However, a higher release price of US$60/£40 per unit has been set by the Group based on the expected quality of the game

With the KS signalling healthy interest they invested £8m into production themselves to make it happen, and seemingly upped the ambition of the pitch a fair bit.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Without the proof of interest that the Kickstarter provided, the base scenario for ED was that it would be a £10 game!




With the KS signalling healthy interest they invested £8m into production themselves to make it happen, and seemingly upped the ambition of the pitch a fair bit.

Very interesting. So the updates we had were not in the basic plan.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I wouldn't call any of it immense problems really. Some people lost it about some fairly trivial stuff like the switch from offline to solo, but the game they released and the things they've added since are very close to the pitched game. Its also very close to the timeline of how things would progress.



They haven't dropped support for VR, an upcoming DLC won't support it at launch. Different and far less dramatic kettle of fish entirely.

Had they continued concentrating on the main game it would just feed into the comedy conspiracy theory there's no DLC coming which has been doing the rounds for years despite all the evidence to the contrary. The galnet staff as we know were popped onto the DLC and FC's.

I said it many times, the base game Elite/Horizons is an exceptionally good, I'd even say landmark game. Clocked copious amounts of hours into it. However, new content would be great without the one step forward two steps back this game is subject to.
We lost the narrative, FSS made exploration an unbearable grind/time sink, and now with VR out there is no new content either for VR players (I'd also add that I don't play FPS, not my cup of tea).

There are just no reasons to be excited/buy this extension for many of us.

As a gamer I would agree those are a bit of a shame (btw some of those we do not even know if it is permanent) but at the same time they have also added all the content in the Beyond Season, followed by the 2019 April and September updates, the January one and now Fleet Carriers. All for free / at no additional cost. for example. Probably as "sound", or not.

I guess this kind of comments tend to be a bit narrow as they seem rather focused on a personal dislike/complaint, which is fine, but let´s not forget the bigger picture.

Beyond 2018, however, lays bare what the issue is. It was presented, by no other then Braben himself at the big budget Frontier Expo, as a stop-gap year before we will get new content. Then after Beyond ended, there was radio silence for months before they came out saying oh sorry, another two years, most updates cancelled and correct me if I'm wrong, but the only meaningful thing was fleet carriers and the magical mining economy.

Edit: how broken the game became, that newcomers complain about having too many credits (i.e. there is nothing to do with them)?

As said above, the game (as it was already 3 years ago) is fantastic, but the past two years were just very underwhelming. I am giving Braben the benefit of doubt, but have no expectations...

 

[Wasp0]

The leader has spoken. And the leader is good.

Flimley

One too many 'O's' in your last word Flimley

 

[Viajero]

...the past two years were just very underwhelming.

That opinion is perfectly valid and fine, but I am afraid it is purely subjective though. Many would probably disagree, including me.

Since you had only pointed out some missing items (we do not even know if permament) and left out the added ones (for free / at no added cost) I simply pointed those out: The fact is they have also added all the content in the Beyond Season, followed by the 2019 April and September updates, the January one and now Fleet Carriers. All for free / at no additional cost for example.

 

[Stigbob]

I said it many times, the base game Elite/Horizons is an exceptionally good, I'd even say landmark game. Clocked copious amounts of hours into it. However, new content would be great without the one step forward two steps back this game is subject to.
We lost the narrative, FSS made exploration an unbearable grind/time sink, and now with VR out there is no new content either for VR players (I'd also add that I don't play FPS, not my cup of tea).

There are just no reasons to be excited/buy this extension for many of us.

People have been shrieking about space feet since pre-launch. It's probably the single most requested feature. So "Many players" is probably overdoing it a bit.

 

[Rat Catcher]

So what niche have they found with FPS?

They added the 'Big Game Hunting' into Odyssey...

The guns fire micro3Dprinters - when the projectile arrives at the target it instantly prints a choice of 'Big Game' , so instead of a gank headshot, we have a gank "eaten by an upset Tiger" shot...