Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Ah, New Eden salt is the finest!

Funnily enough, EVE players think this forum is worse!
EVE has been on my proverbial radar screen for quite a long time, but I've never given it a go. I have watched gameplay videos and streams, and honestly I think it's not quite action-oriented enough for my tastes. I really enjoy flying the spaceship in Elite; merely issuing commands (or whatever it is you do in EVE) just doesn't quite grab me.

But I do like a lot about what (little) I understand about how its world and economy operate.
 
I'am not a fan of people who are ganking for the ganking.Those types that sit around at Deciat just to make a noobs life miserable. I have no time for that, nor the rebuy money. Didn't do the egg mining thing.I only actively make money if i need money. So thats that.

I will spend more time in open at some point for some faction war and powerplay. Maybe some rp too.
Thats the pvp or player interaction i'am looking for. But we'll see.
 
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EVE has been on my proverbial radar screen for quite a long time, but I've never given it a go. I have watched gameplay videos and streams, and honestly I think it's not quite action-oriented enough for my tastes. I really enjoy flying the spaceship in Elite; merely issuing commands (or whatever it is you do in EVE) just doesn't quite grab me.

But I do like a lot about what (little) I understand about how its world and economy operate.

There's plenty of action to be had in EVE, but if sitting in the cockpit is your thing then you'll be happier with ED.

It's free to play, no harm in giving it a whirl if you're curious!
 
EVE has been on my proverbial radar screen for quite a long time, but I've never given it a go. I have watched gameplay videos and streams, and honestly I think it's not quite action-oriented enough for my tastes. I really enjoy flying the spaceship in Elite; merely issuing commands (or whatever it is you do in EVE) just doesn't quite grab me.

But I do like a lot about what (little) I understand about how its world and economy operate.

If you ever do get EVE hit up Kerenski. No finer mentor in the ways of trouble making.
 
Ha, I hear you! My own character's backstory is rooted 100% in fact - I was kicked out by the Pilots Federation on literally my third port of call after undocking for the first time. I'd carried a princely 2 ton load of agronomic treatment from a port in Matet to Fermat City in Hollatja, and the resulting 10x profit margin was enough to bump me up a tier in trade, thereby locking me out of the starter system after only about 3hrs of gameplay.

After that, my character bummed around scraping together enough credits from bounty hunting nav beacons and RES to purchase a Cobra Mk III, which he promptly outfitted for LTD mining. On only his second trip to market, he was intercepted and destroyed by a ruthless ganker, who happened to be the first CMDR my character had seen since leaving the starter systems.

Accepting the ganker's friend request afterwards lead to a whirlwind of getting kidnapped and carried off across the galaxy aboard the FC "Mother of all Ganks," where his new friend became a mentor, helping him unlock engineers and gathering upgrade materials. He accompanied the young CMDR on his first gank - an unarmed Dolphin of all things, how cruel.

Shortly thereafter, our aspiring s**t-tier gankling had the exciting experience of attacking an Anaconda flown by a much more experienced pilot, then having the target clog on him, only to come back with friends looking for a "reverse gank" revenge. Getting coached over comms by his mentor and squadron mates, the young CMDR hung in orbital cruise while engaging in banter with his would-be reverse gankers, buying enough time for his friend to jump MOAG into the system. He then rocketed out of orbital cruise, nav beacon enabled, and effected the "reverse reverse gank." The would-be vigilantes were destroyed in 3 minutes, and the young CMDR got credited with the kill of the Anaconda that had been originally denied him by the clog.

Then there was the time CMDR Webgear was live on stream, AFK while refueling at a star... that lead to a whole adventure of its own.

There's quite a lot of fun to be had in the outlaw / lawful dynamic, to be sure.

It would be so much better/harder if the pilots fed actually did kick people out.
No rebuy, no bounty hunting rewards, no cartographic access, no permits, no elite ranks, etc etc.
Would make being an outlaw/ganker that much harder.

But no never going to happen you can blow up Pilots Fed ships all day long and not much will happen.
 
It would be so much better/harder if the pilots fed actually did kick people out.
No rebuy, no bounty hunting rewards, no cartographic access, no permits, no elite ranks, etc etc.
Would make being an outlaw/ganker that much harder.

But no never going to happen you can blow up Pilots Fed ships all day long and not much will happen.

Yeah. Almost like choosing a life of crime would be a career in and of itself.

Maybe you could only use anarchy stations.

Maybe you'd gain access to unique, criminal engineers and facilities.

Maybe your actions might have consequences.

Or just maybe you pay a fine and the slate is wiped clean and being a top terrorist is just the same as being a law abiding trader.*





*i mean it's not, but neither is it what it could be if a little game design was planned...
 
Accepting the ganker's friend request afterwards lead to a whirlwind of getting kidnapped and carried off across the galaxy aboard the FC "Mother of all Ganks," where his new friend became a mentor, helping him unlock engineers and gathering upgrade materials. He accompanied the young CMDR on his first gank - an unarmed Dolphin of all things, how cruel.


LOL. I'll give you a wiiiiide berth if I ever see you.

o7
 
Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

Two main types of interaction
1. Co-op experiences in which you can wing up with another player and do missions, PVE, BGS, mining, etc. These interactions don't need to be random. I am in a squadron so a lot of activities can be found on discord or via squadron chat.
2. Meaningful PVP - One of the reasons I bought Elite was because I thought PVP would be good. But I quickly found out that Elite is like an MMO in which a level 150 can attack any level 1 that just finished the tutorial. This is just bad gameplay design. When I bought elite I figured there would be "safe zones" or some form of consequence for killing lower level players. I am not saying new players should be immune from damage, but there are a lot of different ways to make PVP meaningful and fun. Right now it seems PVP is basically 2 gankers with fully engineered FDLs killing another player with a significantly inferior ship. My original plan was to play 100% in open but I ended up playing 95% in solo. It is really funny that the only thing keeping a lot of players safe in open is instancing. If everyone played on the same server then I think most players would be immediately ganked upon leaving the Pilot Federation zone, and they would continue to be ganked again and again until they quit (or moved to solo).

A way to fix it is to have high security systems in which NPC enforcers can kill any player that ganks another player. NPCs would obviously need to be buffed. You should still be able to get away with this but it should be really hard for the ganker. If a player ventures out of high security systems then all bets are off and they can be killed on site without consequence. Another option is to have everyone join a faction (i.e. like powerplay factions) and then have areas that are controlled by a faction. Killing someone of your same faction should carry heavy penalties and no rewards, but killing someone from another faction should give you big rewards. I think this would result in much better PVP. But at the end of the day I don't think this is what fdev is attempting to do. They core of Elite is exploration and PVE in solo.
 
2. Meaningful PVP - One of the reasons I bought Elite was because I thought PVP would be good. But I quickly found out that Elite is like an MMO in which a level 150 can attack any level 1 that just finished the tutorial. This is just bad gameplay design. When I bought elite I figured there would be "safe zones" or some form of consequence for killing lower level players. I am not saying new players should be immune from damage, but there are a lot of different ways to make PVP meaningful and fun.
...
A way to fix it is to have high security systems in which NPC enforcers can kill any player that ganks another player. NPCs would obviously need to be buffed. You should still be able to get away with this but it should be really hard for the ganker. If a player ventures out of high security systems then all bets are off and they can be killed on site without consequence.

I do not have a lot of prior MMO experience, but what experience I do have was with games far harsher than Elite. Now, I'm not saying this to disagree with you - because I do in fact agree with your points above - but rather to mention that Elite is, actually, quite "carebear" in many ways compared to other MMO games.

The whole 95% rebuy insurance thing was really eye-opening for me when I learned of it. Likewise how you can't actually lose your ship permanently, or have it or any of its items capable of being picked up. When you consider how easy it is to earn money in this game, this impression is only increased. My initial takeaway, before I'd even begun playing the game, was that loss was supposed to be pretty meaningless - a minor impediment, if any, to gameplay progress. Nothing I've experienced in my ~350hrs since has changed that impression.

They did make killing near stations pretty risky for the ganker - the station guns will easily finish you off unless you're very lucky. Likewise near fleet carriers. And of course, if you're already wanted in the system by the faction that controls the station, the security forces will attack you if your ship is scanned. But besides the ATR - the "Super Space Police" which I've still never seen in the game (I guess my notoriety hasn't gotten high enough), the NPCs are pretty weak if you're in a fully engineered murderboat.

Anyways, I wonder if FDev don't think that they've created that "protected starter system" vis-a-vis the existing Pilots Federation starter zone? It seems like they're quite eager to shunt people out into the wider, wilder world as quickly as possible - that's certainly what happened in my case, after only 3hrs of gameplay - but is the existence of the current starter systems enough for them to feel they've ticked the box? I honestly don't know.

One thing is for sure: the existing "high security" systems are anything but. Telling me, a ganker, that the police are coming in 90 seconds is meaningless when most of my "emergent content experiences" last 40 seconds or less (and to be clear, I attack every target I see, not preferentially trying to prey on the weak or otherwise).

The same goes for flying around in allegedly "Hostile" systems, or having a "Wanted" status in a system. It just doesn't matter, and I pay absolutely no attention to it. Beating NPC interdictions is literally trivial - it's just another immersion timer, like the Braben Tunnel when jumping from low space to supercruise. First we roll to the left, then we roll to the right, then the NPC despawns and I forget about it and return immediately to my depredations.

Honestly, it's much more exciting when there's a real chance of failure and death. That's why it's so fun when people fight us - we are in fact actually looking for fights, after all. If the space police were actually a problem, it would make our "job" a lot harder, and might force us to operate in lower security or anarchy systems. But instead, it's just another case of FDev having an idea but not seeing it all the way through. Shrug?

With all that said - actual PVP is very fun in this game. Yesterday, I had the great fortune of facing off against one of the best PVP pilots, and I want you ganker-haters out there to know that he absolutely destroyed me. But it was good practice, and I will try to learn and improve. This kind of fighting is what I signed up for - the ganking is fun, too, but finding actual PVP and trying to master it is going to be the best. I've finally got my FDL engineered enough that I can participate, and I'm really looking forward to it. Have plenty of credits in the bank for rebuys, too.
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

If you are equating the two (PVP and ganking), then your question is simply invalid. All ganking is PVP, but not all PVP is ganking.

99% of the 3500+ hours I spent in this game was in Open. PVP I don't mind at all. Ganking I tolerate until it becomes griefing. Griefing is zero tolerance, blocks are being handed handsomely (and I recommend the block function to everybody, it works great).

To answer your question, I am happy with ANY interaction, apart from griefing.
 
I'm with you to a certain extent @george_mb , but as an non PvP Open only CMDR I can tell you that you can always avoid ganks with some smart flying.

Tbh, that is why I am Open only, I think my skill as a pilot is superior to any gank squad.

Sometimes I'm right, but this for me is the fun of the game.
Honestly, with the right tactics - the kind Sir Ganksalot teaches, for example - and just enough engineering to keep your shields from absolutely collapsing in a strong breeze - it's not that hard to get away from a gank.

But most people fly directly away from us, allowing us to easily line up our shots and rams.

Without meaning to sound like a jerk, this is a skill-based videogame, and there are skills that anyone can master to give them the confidence to survive and thrive in Open.
 
If you are equating the two (PVP and ganking), then your question is simply invalid. All ganking is PVP, but not all PVP is ganking.

99% of the 3500+ hours I spent in this game was in Open. PVP I don't mind at all. Ganking I tolerate until it becomes griefing. Griefing is zero tolerance, blocks are being handed handsomely (and I recommend the block function to everybody, it works great).

To answer your question, I am happy with ANY interaction, apart from griefing.
Sure, but there is no distinction for many people between griefing and ganking. Any "surprise" player versus player combat is some form of griefing, in their mind.

And of course I understand and appreciate the distinction between (competitive) PVP and ganking as you've outlined here.
 
(and to be clear, I attack every target I see, not preferentially trying to prey on the weak or otherwise).

There is in nutshell reason why I strongle detest gankers. I treat game as RPG, they treat it as arena shooter. Yeah you could play RPG's in way where you kill everyone coming on your sights, but well that tends to lead serious consequences on your game experience. Mostly turning out whole Npc communities hostile towards you and seriously hampering your possibilities in game. And I think Elite should take that direction. So you take criminal playstyle, well thats fine and dandy, though that should lead to situation where you are denied services in systems with security ratings, perhaps anonymous access in low secs should be possible, or bribe officials mechanism for limited services. And murderhobo playstyle even in anarchies should lead to problems unless done in name of whatever is local ruling gang. Even criminals do not like maniacs, they are bad for business afterall.

And yes I truly think "arenashooter" is wrong way to play this game. There is CQC mode for that.
 
Ganking is just overkill, griefing is in the eye of the beholder.

If a player is wanted it's a tiny hassle, but it makes logistically a little more complex. But being hostile means you can't dock, that's quite a big deal, although carriers have mitigated a lot of the issues. Depends how you play. If you don't care about the BGS you can just dock on your carrier or another system nearby.
 
Sure, but there is no distinction for many people between griefing and ganking. Any "surprise" player versus player combat is some form of griefing, in their mind.

And of course I understand and appreciate the distinction between (competitive) PVP and ganking as you've outlined here.

I agree that to me ganking is basicly griefing =).


There is in nutshell reason why I strongle detest gankers. I treat game as RPG, they treat it as arena shooter. Yeah you could play RPG's in way where you kill everyone coming on your sights, but well that tends to lead serious consequences on your game experience. Mostly turning out whole Npc communities hostile towards you and seriously hampering your possibilities in game. And I think Elite should take that direction. So you take criminal playstyle, well thats fine and dandy, though that should lead to situation where you are denied services in systems with security ratings, perhaps anonymous access in low secs should be possible, or bribe officials mechanism for limited services. And murderhobo playstyle even in anarchies should lead to problems unless done in name of whatever is local ruling gang. Even criminals do not like maniacs, they are bad for business afterall.

And yes I truly think "arenashooter" is wrong way to play this game. There is CQC mode for that.

Probably the best example i'v seen to this point , + !
 
There is in nutshell reason why I strongle detest gankers. I treat game as RPG, they treat it as arena shooter. Yeah you could play RPG's in way where you kill everyone coming on your sights, but well that tends to lead serious consequences on your game experience. Mostly turning out whole Npc communities hostile towards you and seriously hampering your possibilities in game. And I think Elite should take that direction. So you take criminal playstyle, well thats fine and dandy, though that should lead to situation where you are denied services in systems with security ratings, perhaps anonymous access in low secs should be possible, or bribe officials mechanism for limited services. And murderhobo playstyle even in anarchies should lead to problems unless done in name of whatever is local ruling gang. Even criminals do not like maniacs, they are bad for business afterall.

And yes I truly think "arenashooter" is wrong way to play this game. There is CQC mode for that.
You're quite right; the disincentives to ganking in this game are weak to nonexistent. It's a symptom of the same issues that make PowerPlay and BGS almost completely lacking in meaningful impact (not that people don't enjoy those things, it's just that they don't really affect anyone who chooses not to pay attention to them).

Also, CQC is a diluted attempted at a combat arena. In a game like Dark Souls, I can build up my character as I see fit, then take it into PVP and see how it works out. In CQC, I am limited to some of the smallest and weakest ships in the game, that have poor outfitting, flown in an arena with silly 1980s-style powerups. It's just completely unsatisfying compared to the high level of skill that goes into actual PVP in this game.

So... you're absolutely right. It would make the criminal playstyle much more interesting if there were meaningful consequences. Just like it would for pledging to a superpower, or otherwise. It's yet another symptom of a game world that fails to fully flesh out the otherwise decent ideas underlying it.
 
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You're quite right; the disincentives to ganking in this game are weak to nonexistent. It's a symptom of the same issues that make PowerPlay and BGS almost completely lacking in meaningful impact (not that people don't enjoy those things, it's just that they don't really affect anyone who chooses not to pay attention to them).

Also, CQC is a diluted attempted at a combat arena. In a game like Dark Souls, I can build up my character as I see fit, then take it into PVP and see how it works out. In CQC, I am limited to some of the smallest and weakest ships in the game, that have poor outfitting, flown in an arena with silly 1980s-style powerups. It's just completely unsatisfying compared to the high level of skill that goes into actual PVP in this game.

So... you're absolutely right. It would make the criminal playstyle much more interesting if there were meaningful consequences. Just like it would for pledging to a superpower, or otherwise. It's yet another symptom of a game world that fails to fully flesh out the otherwise decent ideas underlying it.
Well I agree on this :)
 
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