Blocking Overhaul and C-logging penalties

[Goof141]

The purpose of this thread is to be an open discussion on the topics of the block feature and combat-logging.

Something needs to be done about blocking as a feature and combat-loggers.

The fact that blocking a player effectively removes the possibility that you will ever encounter them in open play is ridiculous. This feature can be abused by both players who don't want to encounter pirates/gankers as well as pirates/gankers who don't want to encounter anti-gankers.

The feature as a whole breaks PvP and should be changed to block communications between players(this is the way blocking works in virtually any MMO out there).




On the topic of combat-loggers: While it's common knowledge that this is frowned upon in the PvP community, there is virtually no penalty for players who combat-log by either returning to the main menu or by task-killing other than being ridiculed by the community.

While the 15-second wait period to log to menu while in combat is appreciated, it's not enough to solve the problem. In my opinion, combat-logging should trigger automatic self-destruct of the player's ship and the player should be greeted with the ship rebuy screen.

 

[Northpin]

Although my block list is empty, i find blocking to be perfect as it is and as an optional tool along with the modes.

combat-log by either returning to the main menu

what?
nevermind.

Combat logging is a direct consequence of the networking design and implementation in ED.
It wont change simply because it will tranform it from a mildly annoyance to an exploitable feature
So, it comes as package to ED multiplayer - Take it as it or leave it and find another game with a better multiplayer design.

 

[Madcmdr]

Yes. All of my yes. This gets full support from me 100% if even go as far as extending the cooldown to 45 sec. the problem this will certainly raise though is mat gathering relies on clogging in order to gather efficiently. Knowing FDev they will do this and mat gathering will become a second job (like it used to be)
Fdev- a good way to solve this is have missions payout more mats. 3 G5’s isn’t enough to run missions. You want mission based gameplay to have more action. Have them pay 10 mats per mission and have the payout be close to, if not match mining.

 

[Bigmaec]

What Northpin said regarding menu logging.

We need a network structure overhaul to change anything about this, otherwise you always will simply be able to terminate the client
without repercussions.
Saying that I'd love persistent ships that are only safe docked.

Block list should only be coms, the current implementation (at least in open mode) is ridiculous.

Also waiting for Robert to bury this thread in reasons why nothing can be changed

 

[Northpin]

Block list should only be coms, the current implementation (at least in open mode) is ridiculous.

No, it is not - is basically the same implementation as the similar features on consoles.
it blocks not only the coms, but also the chance to meet the blocked one in a multiplayer game.

Someone can be a total tool and ruin your game without typing a single letter or addressing you a single word.

 

[Rubbernuke]

What Northpin said regarding menu logging.

We need a network structure overhaul to change anything about this, otherwise you always will simply be able to terminate the client
without repercussions.
Saying that I'd love persistent ships that are only safe docked.

Block list should only be coms, the current implementation (at least in open mode) is ridiculous.

Also waiting for Robert to bury this thread in reasons why nothing can be changed

NNNNNGGGGGGGG

MUST NOT TALK***

 

[Northpin]

mat gathering relies on clogging in order to gather efficiently.

again, what?

 

[Bigmaec]

No, it is not - is basically the same implementation as the similar features on consoles.
it blocks not only the coms, but also the chance to meet the blocked one in a multiplayer game.

Someone can be a total tool and ruin your game without typing a single letter or addressing you a single word.

Which you can avoid by switching to another mode already.
Using block to negate the dangers of open is a lazy implementation.
silently hums Hotel California, and awaits the dO yOu NoT hAvE eNoUgH tArGeTs iN oPeN faction smiling...

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

The people who block you probably aren't much into PvP-- Go shoot at someone else lol.

There have been rumors of PvP squads blocking individuals to mess with instancing, which is a joke, but that's rare for anyone who's actually a threat to do this. There are plenty of more competent squads who don't do this, and are actually worth shooting at. Again, go shoot at someone else.

I used to care about combat logging, I really did. Now? I just count it as a win and move on. I don't even record or report logs anymore, because it's ultimately a waste of my time. It's not getting fixed anytime soon, if ever, so there's no sense in stressing over it.

 

[Northpin]

Which you can avoid by switching to another mode already.
Using block to negate the dangers of open is a lazy implementation.
silently hums Hotel California, and awaits the dO yOu NoT hAvE eNoUgH tArGeTs iN oPeN faction smiling...

I disagree, with solo/pg you filter everyone out.
Blocking just ads granularity and it's a natural extension of the modes.

Now, i heard that apparently certain members of PVP Squadrons are using the blocking feature in certain creative ways...
PVP Squadrons Members using block feature... now, that makes you wonder why are those snowflakes in a pvp squadron in the first place.

edit: grr, ninja'd

 

[Goof141]

Which you can avoid by switching to another mode already.
Using block to negate the dangers of open is a lazy implementation.
silently hums Hotel California, and awaits the dO yOu NoT hAvE eNoUgH tArGeTs iN oPeN faction smiling...

To add to this point, solo mode was made for people who don't want pvp. Blocking people in open is absolutely unnecessary in the way it currently works. Blocking should be changed to effect communication only.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I do think blocking to avoid contact is kinda silly. Then again, I've been firmly in the 'Set a high wake and type 'neener neener' in local chat before escaping' camp for quite a long time.

That said, there are definitely some people that shouldn't have access to a keyboard out there, and not seeing their nonsense would be nice. If I could block comms and still beat on them, I'd be in good shape.

 

[Bigmaec]

Now, i heard that apparently certain members of PVP Squadrons are using the blocking feature in certain creative ways...
PVP Squadrons Members using block feature... now, that makes you wonder why are those snowflakes in a pvp squadron in the first place.

No idea what you heard, but my blocklist is empty. I don't need to block anyone and if somebody manages to blow me up I take it to the chin and gg.



But blocking definitely is bad for instancing, which is why I personally find it annoying.

 

[Northpin]

To add to this point, solo mode was made for people who don't want pvp. Blocking people in open is absolutely unnecessary in the way it currently works. Blocking should be changed to effect communication only.

This won't help you to get rid of someone that keeps popping in your instance at a guardian site - only to mess things up for you and your mates, not necessarily to kill you.
Or at any other POI, or taking the single medium pad at an outpost and so on

I see it as a feature that helps solving some passive-aggressive behaviors in open, not necessarily to ruin things in direct and consensual pvp engagements as those reports regarding people using block specifically to ruin instancing in some particular cases.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Which you can avoid by switching to another mode already.

I normally agree with you Big M, on this issue I don't though. I know it is an extreme example but if some guy has been creepy around a female player, then she shouldn't be forced into PG/SOLO because of it. Add to that racism or any other unpleasantness. Sure, you could block their comms but as @Northpin says, just them loitering in your vision or still pursuing you through systems is an aggravation that anyone could do without.

If blocking saves one player any of the above, then it is a good thing and not the blocker's fault if it messes someone's instancing up.

I understand that people block for all sorts of reasons, it is therefore hard to draw a line as to what is reasonable use of the block facility and implement it, you either have the function or not.

The only thing I can can think of is having to give a reason when you block someone. If you select creep/sexual stuff or racism, then that should flag up to FD, they should investigate it and that player just get kicked off the game all together if found guilty. Selecting 'They killed me' would not provoke this 'investigation'.

 

[Bigmaec]

I normally agree with you Big M, on this issue I don't though. I know it is an extreme example but if some guy has been creepy around a female player, then she shouldn't be forced into PG/SOLO because of it. Add to that racism or any other unpleasantness. Sure, you could block their comms but as @Northpin says, just them loitering in your vision or still pursuing you through systems is an aggravation that anyone could do without.

If blocking saves one player any of the above, then it is a good thing and not the blocker's fault if it messes someone's instancing up.

I understand that people block for all sorts of reasons, it is therefore hard to draw a line as to what is reasonable use of the block facility and implement it, you either have the function or not.

The only thing I can can think of is having to give a reason when you block someone. If you select creep/sexual stuff or racism, then that should flag up to FD, they should investigate it and that player just get kicked off the game all together if found guilty. Selecting 'They killed me' would not provoke this 'investigation'.

These cases should be dealt with by FD. But using block as a (defensive) weapon against anyone who shoots is - in my personal opinion - the wrong way to play the game. It's what we have, and I deal with it, but if on some wondrous day David Braben comes along and says hey BM how would you change the game... I would do something about it.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

These cases should be dealt with by FD. But using block as a (defensive) weapon against anyone who shoots is - in my personal opinion - the wrong way to play the game. It's what we have, and I deal with it, but if on some wondrous day David Braben comes along and says hey BM how would you change the game... I would do something about it.

I totally agree that if you're blocking people who shot at you, then get in PG/SOLO, open is no place for you.

 

[Northpin]

Two words

Fly solo

Sometimes i do, sometimes i dont.
But the block, like many other features in the game, are part of the "blaze your own way" and the Block feature is there to make sure i can blaze my own way meeting anyone out there, except you (just an example - as i said my block list is empty).

You know that FD does not active police the game - and since it has a multiplayer aspect - block also helps to solve potential harassment issues (including the things mentioned above as passive-aggressive behaviors)

I find it highly ironic that the perceived hate of some pvp-ers against the block feature stems from the fact that other pvp-ers are using the block to mess with the pvp experience between pvp-ers

But, PVP-ers are a minority among the larger population. Block feature is there to help the majority
Live with it.

 

[Stigbob]

Blocking only works on your own instancing not the person you've blocked, so the messes with everyone's instancing issue is just a myth.

Personally I block all the griefers as the games better without them.

 

[Goof141]

I normally agree with you Big M, on this issue I don't though. I know it is an extreme example but if some guy has been creepy around a female player, then she shouldn't be forced into PG/SOLO because of it. Add to that racism or any other unpleasantness. Sure, you could block their comms but as @Northpin says, just them loitering in your vision or still pursuing you through systems is an aggravation that anyone could do without.

If blocking saves one player any of the above, then it is a good thing and not the blocker's fault if it messes someone's instancing up.

I understand that people block for all sorts of reasons, it is therefore hard to draw a line as to what is reasonable use of the block facility and implement it, you either have the function or not.

The only thing I can can think of is having to give a reason when you block someone. If you select creep/sexual stuff or racism, then that should flag up to FD, they should investigate it and that player just get kicked off the game all together if found guilty. Selecting 'They killed me' would not provoke this 'investigation'.

Racism and sexual harrassment should be dealt with accordingly but can easily be solved by blocking comms.

If you can't handle people following you between systems and attacking your ship you need to either hop into solo/PG or grow thicker skin. PvP is part of the game for those who want it and solo/PG for those who don't.

My stance is if you get ganked, you get ganked and it's frankly just a matter of wrong place wrong time.

Places like Deciat typically have gankers, but not always. If you fly in open and get ganked in a known hotzone, it's nobody's fault but your own.