Frontier discusses walking in ships in Dev Plan

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Rubbernuke said:
Girls and young teenagers are complex creatures. I can make PCs, fix machines but when a friend disses them and they run home in tears because someone else laughed and the trousers were wrong and they lost a freindshipbraceletandandandandsnasnanasnansasnasdkasbfkbfeskafbesfjesbfes...

It gets scary real fast.
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Yes indeed. Sounds like the time to switch off and find a mental happy place.... whilst outwardly nodding in an understanding manner!
 

B1rdy

B1rdy
Linnunrata said:
Admittedly banks and investors are easier in a sense that it is enough for them if you turn out profit/can repay, and they won't post seven year old dev diaries in board room meetings. :D
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Only if you are on time with your repayment, otherwise questions will be asked.

Linnunrata said:
Seems bit of a stretch to say that saying something in a dev diary several years ago constitutes a binding promise for development. I wonder how many extensive computer games would really pass that test.
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Fdevs wording was carefully chosen (most times) and hardly a promise containing specific details. However, certain things were repeatedly mentioned, that is why people are not wrong to expect those things to appear.

Linnunrata said:
Anyway, have they now categorically said that there will never be plans to have space legs in the ships?
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Rather the oppsite, in fact.
 
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Geraldine

Geraldine
A wee bit of history, at least as I recall it.
The Kickstarter was necessary because the gaming landscape back then was very different to what it is today, space sims were no longer what could be termed "mainstream". So, at that time, there was hardly any new space sims being produced. The X Series, the Star Wraith Series and the Tarr Chronicles of course being notable exceptions who in their own ways helped keep the space sim genre alive. Open source projects, at least with regards to "Elite-a-like" games, also helped in the shape of Oolite, FFE3D and Pioneer. It is thanks to these games that fans of the genre back then had something to rally around but no one could say with any certainity just how popular these games were. Would there be enough of these fans around to support the development of a major new commercial space sim?

David, and FD, wanted to know the answer to that question so used Kickstarter to test the waters, to see if there was still a large enough demand out there in the greater gaming community beyond the dozen or so Frontier forum regulars back then.
With CIG, I'd imagine it was pretty much the same thing, demand had to be proven.
As for the Lifetime passes, that was simply to incentivise backing a new Elite game and it worked! I will admit tho, those last few days of the kickstarter were a nailbiting affair. Still, the rest as they say, is history.

I do agree that promises were made back then that are yet to see the light of day. The DDF is packed with tons of great concepts, mostly from old Elite fans, that would have made this game beyond amazing but the downside is it would have increased development time too. FD had to ship Elite as soon as they were able to recoup the development costs and hopefully turn a profit. So this is where this episodic element of the game's development came from. They knew full well the game was falling short on those early promises so this is what they went with, build the game out over time. Could they have done it faster? Maybe, but with other important projects also on the go, FD couldn't put all their eggs in one basket as there was always the risk the space sim bubble would burst again, just as it had in the early millennium that saw the vast majority of space sims vanish from store shelves as demand fell for them.

So there you go folks, a little backwards look by me as to how we got here. All I can say in closing is I am glad Elite was made because it helped make space sims relevant again, returned them to mainstream gaming. That's a great thing to see again and I hope FD keep on building the game out in the years to come. 🙋‍♀️
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Linnunrata said:
Well, yeah, I guess if they had had the money, they wouldn't have kickstarted. But was no KS ever an option, I mean was it either to do the game with KS or not at all (asking because honestly I don't know, I didn't really follow the project that closely back then)? Seems a bit pointless to regret KS if there would be no game without it.
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KS only covered a fraction of the initial development costs. Most money came from other sources. It's possible they would have gotten less money without the successful KS though.
 

Linnunrata

Linnunrata
B1rdy said:
However, certain things were repeatedly mentioned, that is why people are not wrong to expect those things to appear.
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Fair enough, and people of course can expect what they want - it just seems to me that expectations tied to more contemporary material are likely to have more relevance than age old dev diaries that may or may not be valid. I mean, having followed several longish game development projects, it's not exactly rare for features envisioned early in the development to drop out.

Either way, I'm certainly okay with them doing the space ship interiors, but I'm definitely not going to hold my breath waiting for them - it's a lot of interiors to make.
 
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Linnunrata

Linnunrata
B1rdy said:
I would not be so sure, if those features are tied to revenue.
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Specific details of gameplay almost never are, and pale in comparison with raw numbers like customer amounts, arx sales etc.

I have to say I'm somewhat amused by the thought though:

"Okay, I'd like to start with a question - me and my colleague Steve at the Barclays thought to prepare to this meeting by hitting a multi-crew session, but for some reason, couldn't get the instance to connect and when we did, we noticed that Steve as a gunner didn't have proper HUD. So the question is, are we going to have some improvements to this on say - funding quarter three and four this year? And what the heck is a Mauve Adder?"
 
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B1rdy

B1rdy
Linnunrata said:
Specific details of gameplay almost never are, and pale in comparison with raw numbers like customer amounts, arx sales etc.

I have to say I'm somewhat amused by the thought though:

"Okay, I'd like to start with a question - me and my colleague Steve at the Barclays thought to prepare to this meeting by hitting a multi-crew session, but for some reason, couldn't get the instance to connect and when we did, we noticed that Steve as a gunner didn't have proper HUD. So the question is, are we going to have some improvements to this on say - funding quarter three and four this year?"
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A single incident appears silly, but if you look at the broader scene and notice the number of active players drops unusually after an update (or was not even that high overall), questions about the reasons might be asked, like (to stay with your example): "So you developed a feature for the last 6 months, that is barely usable. What are you planning next and how is it suppossed to retain player interest aka. generate revenue?"
 
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Linnunrata

Linnunrata
B1rdy said:
"So you developed a feature for the last 6 months, that is barely usable. What are you planning next and how is it suppossed to retain player interest aka. generate revenue?"
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That's entirely feasible, though I doubt they would talk about a single feature, rather than entire update cycles failing to retain paying customers. Either way, the difference to dedicated players with thousands of gameplay hours is immense.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Geraldine said:
David, and FD, wanted to know the answer to that question so used Kickstarter to test the waters, to see if there was still a large enough demand out there in the greater gaming community beyond the dozen or so Frontier forum regulars back then.
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Well indeed, but if Frontier didn't really need the money, only a statement of support, why did they not have just a single support tier, say £25 (other currancies are available)?

I guess it was also a handy method of seeing whether if nostalgic fans were offered other kinds of rewards for cash, we'd bite.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
amigacooke said:
Well indeed, but if Frontier didn't really need the money, only a statement of support, why did they not have just a single support tier, say £25 (other currancies are available)?

I guess it was also a handy method of seeing whether if nostalgic fans were offered other kinds of rewards for cash, we'd bite.
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They sold a variety of video game products with clear proviso's about technical feasibility, financial viability and such going forward. After that they just sold the game, DLC and cosmetic extras.

People were and are expected to make the sort of informed purchases they are comfortable with.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Stigbob said:
They sold a variety of video game products with clear proviso's about technical feasibility, financial viability and such going forward. After that they just sold the game, DLC and cosmetic extras.

People were and are expected to make the sort of informed purchases they are comfortable with.
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Lol well on a brighter note all is right with the world. The last few days (in other topics) you and I have been agreeing with each other far to often.

Normal service is resumed ;) :D

IF FD feel that they have delivered enough of the Dev diaries (which are now so old as to be irrelavent) and going forward are just going to do their own thing

Then I would rather FD told us that themselves. Until I hear otherwise their request to bear with them because to deliver the rich features in thier .KSer pitch is going to take time is still on point

BUT after 7 years I think we are due an update from them regarding said features
 
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Stigbob

Stigbob
[VR] Mad Mike said:
Lol well on a brighter note all is right with the world. The last few days (in other topics) you and I have been agreeing with each other far to often.

Normal service is resumed ;) :D

IF FD feel that they have delivered enough of the Dev diaries (which are now so old as to be irrelavent) and going forward are just going to do their own thing

Then I would rather FD told us that themselves. Until I hear otherwise their request to bear with them because to deliver the rich features in thier .KSer pitch is going to take time is still on point

BUT after 7 years I think we are due an update from them regarding said features
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Lol, then to reiterate what we've discussed so many times before as you know things like the KS and dev diaries and the discussion forum were all "we plan" and "we hope" and "it might be cool if" complete with the overarching proviso that "plans change" and "technical feasibility" and "financial viability" were all factors.

They told you that repeatedly, you just always ignore those parts of the paragraphs you like to quote indirectly as popping the paragraph itself up means I just point out the really obvious proviso's.

Even so on balance they've stuck to it amazingly closely within entirely understandable variables. The dream version of the game some people thought they were buying or the imaginary timeline they decided it had to be delivered in has never been FDEV's problem.
 

B1rdy

B1rdy
Linnunrata said:
That's entirely feasible, though I doubt they would talk about a single feature, rather than entire update cycles failing to retain paying customers. Either way, the difference to dedicated players with thousands of gameplay hours is immense.
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What would put them under more pressure?
 

xaisis

xaisis
I think much negativity could be avoided if frontier was open in their communications.

Doing a kickstarter where you ask for money from space sim fans.

Then closing down communications after.
Like they where keeping goverment secrets.

The times when a bug prevents playing in VR and FD just keep silent is frustrating. Just a comment like "we know, we are working on it" would have been all it took.

Such things add op.
 
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