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Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
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Paul, I have no agenda or vendetta. I just think the hypocrisy is funny to point out.
You are a clever person, I have a great deal of respect for most of what you do (as a group). You have fun, you play the game in a very similar way to me, although I don't fire on other Cmdrs.
But just take any sentence you like & reverse the positions, to see how it reads from an outside perspective (as is the point of this thread, not Nameless propaganda or Spear bashing) and look for the inconsistencies. Those inconsistencies are the problem, for me, so I point them out.
People can attack you for any reason or no reason at all. Seems like there is plenty of justification to me. As a group, you bring it upon yourselves & denying that is facile in my view, it does you no favour, and if someone were to decide to act off that I certainly wouldn't say they were breaking the rules of the game, because they can attack for any reason or no reason at all, right?
Paul, I have no agenda or vendetta. I just think the hypocrisy is funny to point out.
You are a clever person, I have a great deal of respect for most of what you do (as a group). You have fun, you play the game in a very similar way to me, although I don't fire on other Cmdrs.
But just take any sentence you like & reverse the positions, to see how it reads from an outside perspective (as is the point of this thread, not Nameless propaganda or Spear bashing) and look for the inconsistencies. Those inconsistencies are the problem, for me, so I point them out.
People can attack you for any reason or no reason at all. Seems like there is plenty of justification to me. As a group, you bring it upon yourselves & denying that is facile in my view, it does you no favour, and if someone were to decide to act off that I certainly wouldn't say they were breaking the rules of the game, because they can attack for any reason or no reason at all, right?
All sides are not equal. As I've said before, this "devil's advocate" approach serves no purpose.
In fact, I think it's a cowardly way to discuss things.
I think maybe you need that to be the case. You don't have to try to justify your actions of course, you could just own it & deal with the consequences.
But hey, play your own way
I didn't mean you, but some of the people who are in Colonia right now. And from the sentence I quoted I assumed you spoke with some of them and know their real goal. If my assumption was wrong, apologies. We would not allege something like that without having proof, that's not our style. We let it play out and hope they see the way they are heading before it's to late. This has nothing to do with bgs or squadron rivalry.
I hear you, and have tried to make that clear many times in this thread. As MishaTX mentioned, that other MMO we both played, the Napoleonic sailing ship one, featured a whole separate server that was PVE-only. It was a nice place, lots of friendly players and a good way to get your feet wet (pardon the awful pun). If you decided to move to the PVP server, you had to start all over again, because they were totally separate from one another.
For whatever reason, FDev and Braben have decided to take Elite in a different direction than those other MMOs you mentioned, and after six years it doesn't sound like anything will be changing. In fact, the Odyssey livestream from about a week ago mentioned how proud Braben was that they were able to transpose the "Elite experience" to an on-foot, planetary context. He explicitly called out "making things go wrong for other people" as constituting one of "the traditional things that you do, within Elite."
So, indeed, we all have different expectations coming into this game. There's the game that we think it is, and then the game as it actually proves to be. Right, wrong or otherwise, "anytime anywhere" PVP is a feature of the Open play mode. You're not wrong for wishing it was different, but you'll have to take those concerns to FDev, because they're the ones who write and enforce the rules by which we all play.
In the meantime, there are lots of helpful players in the Elite community. There's a wealth of experience on offer and many willing to bend over backwards to help new players. I hope we can all find good mentors, because they make the experience so much better.
No. Claims of objectivity are fundamentally faulty. We are all human. We have bias that we cannot root out. This is not a bad thing, it's simply a feature of our species.
The thing to do is explain your position with the bias on full display so your audience can see your bias and judge your arguments in light of that knowledge.
This is called transparency, or in other words, basic respect.
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Skulls for the Skull Jesus.
Stacking shields is literally what meta FDLs do. They are definitive shield tanks.
The other stuff is very situational and can be useful to have in organic situations. I'm nowhere near as experienced in Elite PVP as others here, but I do know that much from what small amount of exposure I've had so far.
Right, Elite isn't a simulation of a specific moment of historical reality. It's a sci-fi open world "MMO adjacent" game. Which isn't to say that the stakes aren't set by FDev; they absolutely are - cue "cutthroat galaxy" and "you'll need combat skills to survive" and all that from the marketing materials.
Players in Elite are certainly capable of outfitting ships with no weapons and no shields, and many do, but they are literally relying on luck for their survival. When they inevitably come across an NPC they can't get away from, or a human player, they learn the cost of those choices. It would be like choosing to take your F-14 out without missile or gun ammo. You could certainly do it, but you would be foolish to think anyone is going to go easy on you as consequence. Why should they? Why should it be any different in Elite? Just because?
That's the fundamental challenge here: lots of different expectations and objectives, probably as many as there are individual players in the game. FDev have chosen to make Open very much a free-for-all game mode, and players have to understand that this is what they're getting into when the participate there. It's made quite clear, and if they somehow missed it, then they will - and I know this sounds harsh, but it's true - soon find out.
CQC mode would be neat if it wasn't nerfed into irrelevance by its exclusion of the interesting combat ships in the game, poor matchmaking, and gimmicky powerups. There could be a PVE-only mode, or wholly separate server. There could be a lot of different solutions to the way the game is implemented, but at the end it's kind of all just talk, because FDev have done what they've done. It's up to the players to figure out how to make the most of what is, as opposed to what they might wish it to be.
I'm glad you enjoy DCS; I am a huge fan of WWI flight sims, and if you want to experience intense dogfighting where even tiny mistakes will cost you, I encourage you to check one out. They are fantastic and extremely challenging. PVP combat in Elite is also very challenging, but it's very different than atmospheric combat and I get it if it's not for you. That doesn't mean it isn't very interesting for others; there's certainly a dedicated PVP community in the game.
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The only Spear people I know are back in the bubble now. I probably have more, or different info than you from the other side, simply because we know a difference slice of the community. As you can appreciate there is always more than one side to a story & both sides will probably embellish or conveniently omit information.
I also appreciate that very few people have much real understanding of how much or how little I do, because I do understand there may be consequences to making what may be tactically useful info public. I have expressed my appreciation before that you do, it helps others to see that they are not alone in a way that my work does not.
But it is also worth bearing in mind that you are now a large enough group of Cmdrs that someone like me may decide to bring you down a peg or two. I am not saying I am going to do this (I really am not, plus I am under attack too) but you have annoyed someone.
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To try and bring this back on topic, banana wonders what role wings currently play in the game regarding gankadanks, pvp and even PG's.
Do gankadanks mostly work in pairs?
Is 4v4 still a thing?
That kinda stuff...
Do gankadanks mostly work in pairs?
Is 4v4 still a thing?
That kinda stuff...
It's amazing how absolutely certain one can be about a 6 year old iteration of a 35 year old game after experiencing it for 6 months.
And that quote's been working overtime this past week. Braben's gank manifesto
Who knew!Hey, I've been ganking this thread for 100 pages plus.What if I gank this thread by telling everyone how great Space Engineers and Microsoft Flight Simulator are?
Deleted member 121570
D
I think it's more like someone flying a passenger 777 or an An 225 cargo plane tbh.
Flying them through a warzone isn't smart - someone might shoot you down for fun, of course.
Some people eh?
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This isn't very accurate. Say, person started playing like 2 weeks ago, he is flying in E/D rated Adder outfitted for cargo runs, and he gets interdicted by fully G5 engineered FDL. How could this player oufit his ship in so short time to be able to withstand attack of ship like that? Plus specialized cargo runners, miners, explorers are 1000% better at what they do if they don't gimp their builds with cutting cargo, equipment and increasing weight marginally, which will still not save them if they come across wing of experienced gankers. There are way too many deisgn contradictions, giving away feeling like developer either had now idea what they were doing, or game was assembled from parts that do not belong together.
On the other hand, why should the E-rated Adder flown by a novice have much of a chance against a meta FDL flown by an experienced PvPer?
Artificial parity is poor game design.
That e/d rated adder, or indeed any build is as good as the pilot flying it.
With situational awareness, a good pilot can avoid being interdicted in the first place. Either by very skillful flying or simply choosing another system to fly in.
Or they can choose a different mode.
Absolutely.
And the meta FDL flown by the experienced pvp player could choose not to attack the e-rated Adder.