Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Staarlord]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

Not everyone plays for PVP, or partakes in combat at all. Some are just on their merry way, off to explore, or coming back from exploration with moths of exploration data, which they may subsequently lose upon return, due, to ganking. I've read of people who have lost billions of CR in discoveries and who "peaced out..." As they had no fortitude to continue playing after months of wasted time. But as mentioned, some are just trying to complete missions, unlock engineers, make their way to fight Thargoids etc.

The above is exactly why many MMOs have dedicate PvP zones, and modes, like ESO, SWTOR, etc. Places where people can meet. But many don't like to fight others who are ready, and that's where gankers come in. They love shooting sitting ducks and people with non(human)-combat builds. Fighting people at/ above their level is not very self-gratifying.

I personally think that we need more if a Star Citizen model. Where ganking is discouraged, due, to real life like consequences. Jail...which can range into the hours. This isn't to say people can't meet to PvP.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Ganker unlike the dictionary definition seems to have multiple meanings on these boards.

Can I ask when you call yourself a ganker what does that mean exactly?

Ganker, to me, is someone who goes after all players, regardless of experience or ship. Just fair and balanced, as all things should be.

A griefer is someone who targets specific players with the intent to kill them over and over again, intentionally to cause them grief.

 

[Bigmaec]

Nice

I hoped someone would see that
It really was 69, 64 tons in the c6 cargo, 5 in the refinery, one stupid tritium percentage...

Where'd you find VO at LOL?

I'll send you a PM next time I'm in game, any hotspot in Colonia works.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

So if you see someone in a sidey with stock weapons in the interests of fairness you'll go after them?

Yes. As well as the fully armed Corvette even if I know I'm likely to lose.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Add to that the fact that ganking is often done badly (I want them to send comms and friend requet after as a minimum), and we have what we have ..

This is the problem I had with today's incident. I don't mind getting pulled in SC, or shot at at Dav's Hope, or Deciat etc. That's part of the reason I was there.

Getting interdicted though about 10 times in a row (I was on my way back to my FC, flying my Torp Courier, which isn't built to kill, but to maim, and is a one-shot-pony so to speak) by the same guy that did the same thing to me in New Borann previously, who still can't as much as land a single shot is obnoxious enough (why even bother pulling a Courier in a Frag Krait, I do not know).

I returned in my Vette (PvE, with SRV and the works) just to see how he'd fare against something a little bit meatier, unfortunately he had backup so I bailed - I mean, fighting two shield tanks with frags that are faster than me is guaranteed to end in a rebuy - after which the mocking started via comms (when all else fails I guess). No wit, just low-brow attempts to get a rise out of me. It's this lack of sportsmanship that makes me think why do I even bother making myself available to them as PvP content.

But that's online gaming for you I suppose.

 

[Riverside]

From a couple of days ago:

We are also busy upgrading the discovery scanner for our explorer friends and foes, it's 70% to G5 now. A few days ago we got frags to G5. A few more blueprints and Colonia will be G5 in all possible blueprints, that's something the authorities can't take away. Making the game better for everyone that's the important part. Also last I looked there are almost 400bil of Anarchy systems in the game, fleet carriers are a nice movable station for the time you want a new view out of your head's porthole. Some really nice ones around Colonia too, I think I have a list of over 100 systems or so.

The last thing to Carcosa from me in this threat. I know I said it before, but well, Anarchy . The Nameless can't be retreated and they will rise again. In the end Carcosa is their system, not Loren's Reapers', Spear's, SEPP's, LPV's, CIDE's, IC's, or whoever else fancies to build a bgs empire in Colonia. We are not going anywhere and there is nothing the Axis can do about it.

Back to topic now, please. Why do people play in open if they are not interested in PvP.

What's that got to do with all the Jesus worship? They are completely unrelated. Stop bringing up unrelated stuff.

 

[Screemonster]

Not all anarchy faction supporters are gankers.

This.

I've personally got a bigger pirate kingdom than the nameless do (technically) and I didn't attack anyone in pursuit of that goal that didn't already have hardpoints out attacking my allies. I've got basically no interest in going out ganking and I'm pretty much not a threat to the once-every-few-weeks hollow squares I see especially since my controller is broken right now.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Hmm ok not how I would do it but you do you different strokes for different folks.

I follow the teachings of the mighty Thanos. I am saving the galaxy by attempting to wipe out half of the population. Noob and experienced alike, fair and balanced as all things should be.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yea but if you emulate him too much you'll lose your head or vanish into dust.

BRABEN CARES NOT FROM WHERE THE REBUY FLOWS, ONLY THAT IT DOES.

 

[Joser95]

Yea but if you emulate him too much you'll lose your head or vanish into dust.

Ant Man will crawl up where the sun don't shine and then expand

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Yea but if you emulate him too much you'll lose your head or vanish into dust.

The hardest choices require the strongest wills

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Killing a Sidey - I'm sorry little one

Killing a tricked out Corvette - The hardest choices require the strongest wills

Now you're getting it!

Wait, is Phisto trying to start a rebuy cult dedicated to David Braben a la Khorne in Warhammer 40k? Surely not.

Spoiler

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Elite has enough cults as it is.

But none so pure.

 

[Screemonster]

But none so pure.

Gotta admire purity.
Survivors, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

 

[Just Paul]

What's that got to do with all the Jesus worship? They are completely unrelated. Stop bringing up unrelated stuff.

So all that stuff earlier in this thread about how nice & helpful the Nameless are, that's all got to be weighed against this kind of stuff too, right?

Or is this all on alt accounts?

The Nameless is an npc faction, they help by providing some superpower ships to Colonia. Loren's Reapers is us, 2 different things. CJ is not affiliated with either of them. But being blessed by his presence is something else. Similar to the time I ran into SDC during the Palin CG. It just makes the hairs on the back of your head stand up, if I had some left

An awful lot of this thread has been spent moaning about Spear, to the extent that a Spear player commented.

You have learned nothing and this is all just propaganda because you are salty.

Change my mind

We not salty, quite the opposite. Matt has already lots of stuff for a 3rd book. I do hope he doesn't do the Valve approach to sequels. And the whole thing is really just starting up and going just as planned. Well at least to the amount of planning we do. We do what we always did and all our members are on the same page regarding that. Just think, Bigmaec bought a carrier yesterday, mind blown.

Here is our mission statement.

The mission of Loren's Reapers is to reshape the galaxy of Elite: Dangerous by providing context and meaningful purpose to the actions of its players. Steeped in the lore of the game, our role is not merely to follow a storyline, but to alter the current one and inspire others to create their own.

All the banter with Spear and all the other authoritarian Axis members is part of that mission. You want colorful characters and engagement and the banter brings it out of them. That's why in the end they can't reach the ultimate goal they set out to archive. Removing The Nameless from control in Carcosa is not that goal.

There is a well-known independent historian who will be writing the official records. Nothing we or the Axis can do about it.

And I wrote another post about Colonia. Sorry @Danquememe

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Is Spears carrier still stuck in Colonia?

Yeah

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

Adding decent defense modules doesn't make a multirole build useless. That's just wrong.
Of course you have to run then, but on the other hand the systems where you can be ganked with any calculable chance is reduced to three or four of 400 BILLION.

I said multiroles are useless in PVP combat, and running means you're inherently in highly disadvanatgeous situation. There aren't really any defensive equipment in the game. Stacking hull/shield wouldn't really let you fight, and everything you can stick from optionals doesn't work against human opponent. As for second sentence, sure, didn't say gankers hunt you to Beagle and back, hah, was just picturing how it is balanced overall.

Oh, combat flight sims don't have any balance at all, at least, not if they're good and accurate simulators. They strive to make the simulator as accurate a representation of real-world flight performance as they can, on the full understanding that some planes are simply better than their historical opposition.

Combine that with sim pilots who have many times more hours than actual real-world pilots did, and almost all of it in combat, with zero real world consequence for death, and you have a situation where a superior pilot will be in a superior airplane and you, as a newb, are going to have to learn how to deal with it. And those pilots will fly the same "best" plane on every single map, and they've not only mastered it, they've mastered precisely how to fly it against whatever you're in, to exploit every weakness your plane has and turn it to their advantage.

It's tremendously fun, to be honest. Because eventually, if you stick with it, you do get better, and that feels cool. And you then become the grizzled veteran turning all those hours of practice to your own advantage, and the cycle repeats.

Elite is, by all accounts, exactly like this. There is a huge amount of nuance, there's the whole "build" aspect which is completely obviated in flight sims (where your plane is 100% capable from the get-go, every flight, no grinding required), and there's a much greater variety of options overall. After all, in Elite, the ships are not limited to historical loadouts, they can be whatever you want, within reason. It's far more diverse in every way.

If anything, competitive PVP in Elite is quite balanced, if only because everyone is basically flying one of a handful of different variations of FDL builds, and pilot skill is the real differentiator.

In flight sims, if we talk DCS, for example, you don't generally fly in cutting edge fighter jet among most of cargo, passanger planes and cropdusters. That's how it is in Elite. Not everyone in Open fly FDL, only gankers, or players who seek PVP do. Engaging someone in inferior jet, but still fully combat capable, and with less skilled pilot is still a fair game, but attacking completely defenceless, incapable of any resistance vessels - isn't. In Elite it is possible, and this is what drives most people out of Open. I'm, not against free-for-all-dangerous-galaxy rules, but there should be some regulations and risks for attackers. There are none currently, otherwise, mode would be blast. And you pointing out that about FDLs in quite hilarious. As I mentioned in my previous post, no idea how you guys can stand it, definition of dullness and stagnation if you ask me. Jet combat, in general, is a lot more visceral and exciting, single hit means life and death, and maneuvering takes tremendously more skill. Its incredible both to watch and participate. Watching Elite PVP is best for insominiacs, knocks you out so fast, hah.

 

[Riverside]

We not salty, quite the opposite.

I don't think you read the same thread I read

I think there's at least a few of you that openly support troublemakers while simultaneously offering excuses & 'broken rules' like separating the player from the account (alt accounts, discussions outside of the game & clearly not in-game roleplaying) while at the same time claiming others are not playing fair by acting on the same basic information themselves.

I'd call that salty, it shows a bitterness & refusal to acknowledge responsibility for ones actions. That is inconsistent with the implication that others are not acting in an 'adult' manner (while playing a PEGI7 game).

What I'm not seeing from those few, is owing it. It is just a clique of a few contributors conveniently overlooking the inconsistencies of their mate's behaviour rather than any real acknowledgement that they are part of the problem too.

TL;DR you're salty about stuff coming back to bite you rather than either owning it or modifying your behaviour.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Nice makes me giggle every time.

especially since the entire reasoning for them going out there in my understanding was completely myopic.

 

[Riverside]

especially since the entire reasoning for them going out there in my understanding was completely myopic.

I thought they did it for fun? Why do you play?