Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Oh yikes, I just tried in EDSY replacing the multicannons in my FdL with frags. Why was I not informed? Trying this is on my to-do list now. :)

The main use of that FdL is "Pirate Lord" missions. They usually turn out to be Corvettes these days.

For a pirate lord get in close the frags are much, much more effective than multi-s. For a CZ frags are effective but severely restricted by ammo.

As ObiW says, they are awesome against big ships.
 

Deleted member 182079

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For a pirate lord get in close the frags are much, much more effective than multi-s. For a CZ frags are effective but severely restricted by ammo.

As ObiW says, they are awesome against big ships.
I actually use my Krait 2 as a pirate lord mission runner with a couple of Torps to drop the shields, and then 3 large Shock Cannons. I know..... but I'm contrarian like that, and since I unlocked them I may as well use them... (waste of effort btw).

Should just replace them with frags really and be done with it. Or maybe just transfer the 3 Pacifiers I currently use on my trading Python as they hardly ever get any action anyways.
 
I actually use my Krait 2 as a pirate lord mission runner with a couple of Torps to drop the shields, and then 3 large Shock Cannons. I know..... but I'm contrarian like that, and since I unlocked them I may as well use them... (waste of effort btw).

Should just replace them with frags really and be done with it. Or maybe just transfer the 3 Pacifiers I currently use on my trading Python as they hardly ever get any action anyways.

I fitted one of my mission running Pythons with 4x overcharged frags on top, the 2x C3s are screening shell for the faster reload, one C2 is corrosive & the other is something else - the thermal conversion one I think. Shreds mission spawn condas (Target their powerplant & get in real close) and pirate lords. It does a nice job in haz RESs too, although it's not a dedicated combat ship so turning fights are more of an issue.

That high burst damage on an unsuspecting target is very effective, and not something I would want to be on the receiving end of if I was taken by surprise :)
 

Deleted member 182079

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Going back OT again, this whole (personal) realisation of how out of whack PvP balancing really is (or rather, can be if it's organic) does make me a bit sad. I'm saying this as someone who never bothered to dig a little deeper into the offensive capabilities from a PvP viewpoint, just defensive and evasive flying, but was ready to progress to the former, primarily to push back those players who focus on camping at planetary sites and only hit soft targets, but seeing now in its full glory how the power balance is skewed towards them - through a) very high DPS b) shield tanks with SCB spamming and c) flying speed boats there really is no point at all fighting them is there...

Even if I were to build a ship purely dedicated for this purpose, it's essentially rock/paper/scissor first (problem being, if I show up in the wrong build I have to travel again switching ships, meaning I might no longer instance with them later, just wasting time going from A>B>A), and if you do manage to win that mini-game, the opponent will just wake out - I have yet to see one who stays once their shields drop - unless it's more than one of them vs me.

So unless I count them leaving the instance as a victory (which they will clearly dispute from their POV, but I do it anyways), it all seems rather pointless to me now going beyond that.

Think I'll focus again on evasion and refrain from spending more time on counter-gank builds, waste of time and mats by the looks of things.
 
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play in open , just log out when they try to interdict u. i do it all the time
Oof. Why not learn how to play the game and escape properly instead of cheating?

He said log out.
Since when log out is cheating?

Could it be possibly that you assumed that log out means combat logging?
Which would mean you are seeing the worst behavior in people, even if it's not the case? ("when they try to..." could mean before interdiction, when there is no timer quitting to menu)

And at the same time, you are very sensible when anyone else assume the worst regarding gankers / certain types of pvp-ers - most of the time for good reasons (*)


* (you won / i lost / i cannot kill you, therefore you must be cheating/exploiting/not playing the game the way i want you to play it... is a common way for some players to comfort their bruised egos)
 
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He said log out.
Since when log out is cheating?

Could it be possibly that you assumed that log out means combat logging?
Which would mean you are seeing the worst behavior in people, even if it's not the case? ("when they try to..." could mean before interdiction, when there is no timer quitting to menu)

And at the same time, you are very sensible when anyone else assume the worst regarding gankers / certain types of pvp-ers - most of the time for good reasons (*)


* (you won / i lost, therefore you must be cheating/exploiting/not playing the game the way i want you to play it... is a common way for some players to comfort their bruised egos)
It's not cheating in case of menu logging, but why use open at all If you log out at any dangerous Situation?
 
A very valid question. Another one is: Why do you care?
Personally I just care for the forum threads. If I interdict someone and he/she logs, I'm annoyed a bit because muh immurshon and because my valuable time was lost. All 10 seconds of it. I just can't understand it. If you want no gankers, use Mobius, or git gud. Even more laughable are people who log out If they see another ship in "their" instance. Why? Just use PG shrugs
 
Going back OT again, this whole (personal) realisation of how out of whack PvP balancing really is (or rather, can be if it's organic) does make me a bit sad. I'm saying this as someone who never bothered to dig a little deeper into the offensive capabilities from a PvP viewpoint, just defensive and evasive flying, but was ready to progress to the former, primarily to push back those players who focus on camping at planetary sites and only hit soft targets, but seeing now in its full glory how the power balance is skewed towards them - through a) very high DPS b) shield tanks with SCB spamming and c) flying speed boats there really is no point at all fighting them is there...

Even if I were to build a ship purely dedicated for this purpose, it's essentially rock/paper/scissor first (problem being, if I show up in the wrong build I have to travel again switching ships, meaning I might no longer instance with them later, just wasting time going from A>B>A), and if you do manage to win that mini-game, the opponent will just wake out - I have yet to see one who stays once their shields drop - unless it's more than one of them vs me.

So unless I count them leaving the instance as a victory (which they will clearly dispute from their POV, but I do it anyways), it all seems rather pointless to me now going beyond that.

Think I'll focus again on evasion and refrain from spending more time on counter-gank builds, waste of time and mats by the looks of things.

You're largely correct except for a few points. The undisputed king, the holy meta FDL can absolutely be a one size fits all antiganker kill ship. See for recent example, myself, D'anque and a friend pulling a FDL where the pilot had cunningly asked support to reset his combat rank. My friend died, I ran out of ammo, and D'anque had to wake away. A properly flown, evasive FDL that does not joust a frag build has significant advantages and barring a mistake, will simply win such an engagement thanks to ammo constraints. The proper toolkit is all there to decimate basically anything if you're the superior pilot. No need to go to the level of counterbuild you're talking about.

You are absolutely correct in that we simply don't have to die unless we want to. Gankers will generally build to a strong shield, and importantly, strong armor underneath. We expect to have to shrug off NPC and even a degree of ATR and station fire. If we don't want to fight, or simply decide we're outmatched, we can just wake away. Victory is yours in that case, excepting the fact that we can just pop back up a few minutes later. Stopping us is more a matter of vigilance and conditional victory than the oft heard fantasies of blasting us out of the sky wholesale in the mighty corvette.
 
It's not cheating in case of menu logging, but why use open at all If you log out at any dangerous Situation?

For the o7's and o9's (mug raised) - i thought we already established open = social and social not always include antagonistic attitudes
There are plenty of people that like social play but cannot stand conflicts of any type.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
You're largely correct except for a few points. The undisputed king, the holy meta FDL can absolutely be a one size fits all antiganker kill ship. See for recent example, myself, D'anque and a friend pulling a FDL where the pilot had cunningly asked support to reset his combat rank. My friend died, I ran out of ammo, and D'anque had to wake away. A properly flown, evasive FDL that does not joust a frag build has significant advantages and barring a mistake, will simply win such an engagement thanks to ammo constraints. The proper toolkit is all there to decimate basically anything if you're the superior pilot. No need to go to the level of counterbuild you're talking about.

You are absolutely correct in that we simply don't have to die unless we want to. Gankers will generally build to a strong shield, and importantly, strong armor underneath. We expect to have to shrug off NPC and even a degree of ATR and station fire. If we don't want to fight, or simply decide we're outmatched, we can just wake away. Victory is yours in that case, excepting the fact that we can just pop back up a few minutes later. Stopping us is more a matter of vigilance and conditional victory than the oft heard fantasies of blasting us out of the sky wholesale in the mighty corvette.
Unfortunately (for me!) the FdL is the one ship I completely despise in the game, more so than any other ship - because it is the meta (though the Kraits are catching up it seems - but at least they're still useful in roles other than combat), and I suppose because I've fallen victim to them countless times in my early days in Open, by players who solely use this ship, i.e. I've never seen them once flying anything else. Whereas whenever I try to fight one, I seem to get nowhere fast, those shields... oof. It's my nemesis so to speak!

Think is though, we have 37 ships in the game, many of them combat oriented, and yet it's only (less than) a handful of ships that are up to the task, provided they're built it in a certain way, which is even duller (again, imo). For example, I have never seen a shieldless FdL with lasers only, certainly not flown by PvP pilots anyways, and I think that's a shame.

So I'm not blaming the players, but the game (sorry about this pun).

I wonder sometimes though about the "armour underneath" bit - most of my combat ships are hybrids, so I normally stay in the fight unless I'm outnumbered or being pummeled by nasty experimental effects that require the shield to be down - why is it that many run as soon as their shields are gone, while they're facing a meme Courier (2x Torps, 1x Packhounds) that, once torps have been fired, is not really capable of finishing the job unless I can take out their drives (and with some decent flying on their side they're easy enough to evade). Granted, not everyone behaves the same, but it is quite common all the same, at least in my experience.

As for the Corvette, what often strikes me about it is that it's the undisputed daddy in PvE in my fleet - it takes minutes until I need to pop the first SCB in a High CZ, against even one other player ship that comes down to mere seconds. Given the cost involved (which by now is meaningless, but it wasn't always like that, certainly not when I unlocked mine) you would expect the Federal Navy combat flagship to last a little longer against single mediums. From a game progression and balance perspective it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I know it is what it is, but it doesn't exactly encourage me to delve deeper into PvP, I have to admit.
 
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... and what about the facts? 🥴
Blocking can have 'unintended results' with instancing, apparently - I don't know factually as my list is empty - where the block list of a player in an instance can cause issues with others who are winged / friends with a blocked player in their own instance... I may have misunderstood the exact mechanics so my apologies if incorrect.
 
Blocking can have 'unintended results' with instancing, apparently - I don't know factually as my list is empty - where the block list of a player in an instance can cause issues with others who are winged / friends with a blocked player in their own instance... I may have misunderstood the exact mechanics so my apologies if incorrect.

The friend list takes priority over the blocklist. The blocklist does have an effect, but nothing like that of the friend list or connection quality on matchmaking.
 
Personally I just care for the forum threads. If I interdict someone and he/she logs, I'm annoyed a bit because muh immurshon and because my valuable time was lost. All 10 seconds of it. I just can't understand it. If you want no gankers, use Mobius, or git gud. Even more laughable are people who log out If they see another ship in "their" instance. Why? Just use PG shrugs
I see what you mean and I wouldn't routinely menu log, but actually if he gits gud he'll just high-wake, which will waste the same amount of your time. The difference is just that it will waste more of his time! (He has to jump back again to the system he wanted to be in). I can understand someone wanting to be in Open for the social options but declining combat.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
I see what you mean and I wouldn't routinely menu log, but actually if he gits gud he'll just high-wake, which will waste the same amount of your time. The difference is just that it will waste more of his time! (He has to jump back again to the system he wanted to be in). I can understand someone wanting to be in Open for the social options but declining combat.
The particular example that I had in my mind when I responded to @Frillop Freyraum was when @Bigmaec and I patrolled the triple hotspot in Borann together, fighting off gankers who attacked mining vessels; Bigmaec would hail a mining Python (or was it a Conda?), and instead of responding the ship just disappeared.

I just think that if you don't want to run the risk of positive as well as negative encounters why choose Open. It was just a bit lame, and unfortunate for all involved as we could've had a decent session there together, which wouldn't have involved the miner getting their ship destroyed. 🤷‍♂️

And if those players keep logging into Open, you may end up instancing with them instead of more engaging individuals who I'd rather play with instead.
 
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