Interiors, why?

[DemiserofD]

I can't think of a single suggestion related to ship interiors that is remotely feasible at the same time as being enjoyable.
Take stealing ships for example. You steal an npc anaconda, and boom, you just gained a billion credits. No WAY frontier ever allows that to happen.

Or having armies of NPC crewmates? Seriously? Never, ever going to be remotely feasible.

On the other end of the spectrum, walking around your ship repairing modules? Why the heck would I ever do that when I can do it from the comfort of my seat? Especially when doing so means walking the length of a football field to the other end of my anaconda. Anyone who seriously thinks they'll enjoy doing that multiple times is delusional.

The only vaguely rational justification for ship Interiors is roleplay and that would only be of any value to a very small portion of the player base. To put it frankly, it just isn't an efficient investment of time or resources. Which is exactly why I never want it to happen the same amount of time it takes to model the inside of one ship, they could create a ridiculous amount of actual content.

 

[Eraden]

I can't think of a single suggestion related to ship interiors that is remotely feasible at the same time as being enjoyable.
Take stealing ships for example. You steal an npc anaconda, and boom, you just gained a billion credits. No WAY frontier ever allows that to happen.

Or having armies of NPC crewmates? Seriously? Never, ever going to be remotely feasible.

On the other end of the spectrum, walking around your ship repairing modules? Why the heck would I ever do that when I can do it from the comfort of my seat? Especially when doing so means walking the length of a football field to the other end of my anaconda. Anyone who seriously thinks they'll enjoy doing that multiple times is delusional.

The only vaguely rational justification for ship Interiors is roleplay and that would only be of any value to a very small portion of the player base. To put it frankly, it just isn't an efficient investment of time or resources. Which is exactly why I never want it to happen the same amount of time it takes to model the inside of one ship, they could create a ridiculous amount of actual content.

Once again, there is no need to immediately tie ship interiors to game play of the sort you are describing. Not everything has to be tied to some sort of combat style game play. Your assertion that this sort of thing is important only to a "very small portion of the player base" is completely without evidence. It seems more like wishful thinking on your part rather than reality. If you can drum up an actual poll that supports your assertion then I might take you seriously. Interiors of ships do not have to be completely fleshed out at the start. Various important areas like private quarters, lounge, medical bay, hangar deck and such can be incorporated initially and the rest filled in later. Interactive content for these areas can also be added later. Now, you make a pretty bold (and unsubstantiated) claim that the resources devoted to this would not be efficient. By whose metric? Yours? Show me some real data then.

 

[Nadreck]

We don't need the entire ship interior, we can assume the space occupied by the internal modules is "out of bounds" except for passenger cabins, and that might be just a corridor leading to a few generic cabins (one model for each size and class). We just need crew quarters and other shared spaces, minimal for most ships (the Beluga would be the main exception).

I'm not anticipating new gameplay, but I'm anticipating customisation. I want more to personalise my ships than just paintjobs/decals and new clutter on my dashboard.

And various games allow players with appropriate 3D modelling tools to create and share stuff. That would be really cool.

 

[Red Anders]

Seems like this thread has been hijacked at this point. It was a person asking the people who WANT it. Not a thread asking the people who dont want it why its a poopoo idea.

Welcome to the internet.

 

[PaulieWotsit]

Again, I'd rather walk around a planet than a spaceship. End of discussion.

 

[Ydiss]

I can't think of a single suggestion related to ship interiors that is remotely feasible at the same time as being enjoyable.
Take stealing ships for example. You steal an npc anaconda, and boom, you just gained a billion credits. No WAY frontier ever allows that to happen.

Or having armies of NPC crewmates? Seriously? Never, ever going to be remotely feasible.

On the other end of the spectrum, walking around your ship repairing modules? Why the heck would I ever do that when I can do it from the comfort of my seat? Especially when doing so means walking the length of a football field to the other end of my anaconda. Anyone who seriously thinks they'll enjoy doing that multiple times is delusional.

The only vaguely rational justification for ship Interiors is roleplay and that would only be of any value to a very small portion of the player base. To put it frankly, it just isn't an efficient investment of time or resources. Which is exactly why I never want it to happen the same amount of time it takes to model the inside of one ship, they could create a ridiculous amount of actual content.

Stealing ships isn't going to happen. I'm not sure if anyone suggested that? Maybe I missed it but if they did, it's just not going to happen. And would suck if it did, pretty obviously.

And repairing modules on foot would be beneficial if that meant not needing an AMFU.

Not that anyone is suggesting that alone would warrant interiors. It seems as though you've taken as limited a view as possible when considering how pointless interior game play could be.

Ignoring all possible non combative game play potential (the most glaringly obvious, but by no means exhaustive, example being salvage expeditions, which is an absolute stalwart of ship-based anything), the list of combat scenarios involving first person shooting is long.

If all you could conjure is GTA in space then I absolutely understand why interiors don't interest you.

Maritime and space-fairing piracy is literally defined in almost all literature and fictional media by the act of aggressively boarding a ship to steal what it carries. Yes, in some cases that'll include hijacking the ship but not in all cases. Piracy in ED is defined by the act of stealing cargo. Currently, that's severely restricted to cargo hatch destruction.

Do you consider boarding a ship as a pirate (and defending a ship from pirates) is not, singularly, a concept that fully conforms to the lore of the game and as a potentially compelling way to utilise FPS game play in ships?

That's just one example. The immediate and opposite (and really obvious) other example is taking pirates (or whatever, actually) alive (by boarding their ship and taking them out with non lethal personal weapons, which I'll add do exist in the game).

What about rescue missions?

Think they should remain forevermore restricted to the game of "shoot the cargo hatch" or maybe do you think it might be fun to literally rescue them in person?

How about assassinations that present a target in a ship that's docked? You can't blow the ship up with your ship. But you can walk onto their ship (or sneak on it more like) and kill the target with a shotgun.

If none of this sounds fun to you then you just have to be one of those who aren't that keen on fps games. And if that's the case then of course interior game play won't interest you but then surely that precludes you from arguing the point when we know very well that we're getting fps combat next year?

But if you do like fps combat, or at least aren't against it, then surely even those few examples are interesting?

If not, I can come up with plenty more. And I can come up with - combative or otherwise - examples that'll fit most careers we can do already (and maybe add some more that just don't make sense with ship vs ship based interaction).

 

[dannysquid]

The idea of customising the interior is appealing in a sort of meaningless way. A Tiki theme? Leopardskin?

I think the snag is that to make interiors actually meaningful from a gameplay point of view, you'd have to redesign the gameplay from the ground up.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

What would be good would be to be able to strip out vast parts of the Beluga interior, invite a bunch of of great mates on board with their SRVs and have like a Mario Kart race around the insides.

 

[Ydiss]

I think the snag is that to make interiors actually meaningful from a gameplay point of view, you'd have to redesign the gameplay from the ground up.

Why?

Can you elaborate, please? Redesign what game play and for what reasons?

 

[dannysquid]

Why?

How would fps game play demand redesigning space combat (as one example) from the ground up?

They're totally non related.

I can only see ways to extend, expand upon or otherwise branch out from existing game play mechanics by taking the scope, optionally, to the first person scale. It would only require this complete redesign that you assert if fdev want it to.

It's not as though ED will be the first game to blend vehicular and fps content.

But maybe I just don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Wouldn't you have to be doing ship-related things in the ship? And we can do nearly everything from the cockpit. If sensors or engines or shields or whatever was being controlled from elsewhere you'd have to cut-back on what's available from the cockpit, which would change the whole pace of the game.

Maybe there's more of an autopilot thing, where you do you exploration things from an exploration room only giving directions as to where to go next. Or work out your combat tactics from a combat room where the ship is doing all the flying around and you're just selected targets or changing shields.

There don't seem to be obvious things that aren't just cosmetic to me. Or things that would change the whole pace of the game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Maybe, but it was mentioned about hiring scientists to research alien life forms, does this mean explorers who don't hire scientists will be disadvantaged by not being able to research alien life forms? You can see how this goes, suddenly without crew you are not getting the same rewards, pushing everyone into the same path.

Yes it might be optional but you earn less money, then we've got interdictions leading to boarding, what's optional there? If I don't have crew I can't defend my ship? Got to be careful how your optional works out, it might end up being optional to have but necessary to play.

So your solution is no content that could.be advantageous to people with the DLC? What that means is everything is a bolt on and nothing can be stitched into the game properly.
Personally if I was given 1 wish for anything new content wise for ED it would be a full complement of box ships crew . Ships like the anaconda really should need a minimum of 20 crew to put her. The ship could come with the crew as a basic level and they cod.gain XP over time however such content would likely be a lot of work esp if there were. Character traits like in DDF and Dec diaries. FD would likely need to charge for them and the obvious way would be people with the DLC get extra missions etc which allow a higher class off staff which give slight passive buffs or access to novel usss etc.

Otherwise what is the point of them?. New content needs to have new opportunities and not as a shallow tag on to the game.

Also I am confused about your comment about elite only having 1 person in their ship.
Elite 1 only had 1 person but you only flew a cobra.
Elite 2 and 3 both had ship crew I was hoping ED would build on the very basic implementation and indeed that WAS in the design documents. ED is the 1st game in the elite lore which allows massive ships with now crew, just check the wikis for the older games it even lists their crew requirements

 

[Ydiss]

Wouldn't you have to be doing ship-related things in the ship? And we can do nearly everything from the cockpit. If sensors or engines or shields or whatever was being controlled from elsewhere you'd have to cut-back on what's available from the cockpit, which would change the whole pace of the game.

Maybe there's more of an autopilot thing, where you do you exploration things from an exploration room only giving directions as to where to go next. Or work out your combat tactics from a combat room where the ship is doing all the flying around and you're just selected targets or changing shields.

There don't seem to be obvious things that aren't just cosmetic to me. Or things that would change the whole pace of the game.

This is similar to the post above that I replied to.

If this is the sum total of game play potential you can imagine then I understand fully why you'd think what you think.

I think ship interior game play can exist without anything that involves controlling our ship at all. The ideas based on "do x with modules on foot instead of in the cockpit" are really limited ideas. And I agree wholeheartedly that interior design would never be justified by just stuff like that. And, as you said, why would we want to do it?

I'm just unsure why I seem to be the only person who sees all the potential for fps game play... I mean, we're discussing Odyssey; an expansion based on fps (predominantly, even if you replace the "s" with other things, which fdev strongly suggest they will let us do).

Why are we limiting our imagination to "do something with sensors on foot"?

Piracy, bounty hunting, smuggling, trading, rescue, exploration, salvage...

All things we can do right now from our cockpit. All things that could also be done inside the interior of any ships (not just our own) on foot, with totally new ways to play. Without impacting what we already do now (and, with some basic finessing, actually really should enhance and expand upon what we currently do).

If you don't see that, I can only assume you've not played fps games much?

Edit: maybe that's the reason for the general lack of imagination surrounding fps game play that I'm seeing. I imagine a big portion of ED players don't really like fps games and probably have a really narrow view of them. Which isn't surprising... Cod has a lot to answer for that, I imagine.

 

[DemiserofD]

,

Stealing ships isn't going to happen. I'm not sure if anyone suggested that? Maybe I missed it but if they did, it's just not going to happen. And would suck if it did, pretty obviously.

And repairing modules on foot would be beneficial if that meant not needing an AMFU.

Not that anyone is suggesting that alone would warrant interiors. It seems as though you've taken as limited a view as possible when considering how pointless interior game play could be.

Ignoring all possible non combative game play potential (the most glaringly obvious, but by no means exhaustive, example being salvage expeditions, which is an absolute stalwart of ship-based anything), the list of combat scenarios involving first person shooting is long.

If all you could conjure is GTA in space then I absolutely understand why interiors don't interest you.

Maritime and space-fairing piracy is literally defined in almost all literature and fictional media by the act of aggressively boarding a ship to steal what it carries. Yes, in some cases that'll include hijacking the ship but not in all cases. Piracy in ED is defined by the act of stealing cargo. Currently, that's severely restricted to cargo hatch destruction.

Do you consider boarding a ship as a pirate (and defending a ship from pirates) is not, singularly, a concept that fully conforms to the lore of the game and as a potentially compelling way to utilise FPS game play in ships?

That's just one example. The immediate and opposite (and really obvious) other example is taking pirates (or whatever, actually) alive (by boarding their ship and taking them out with non lethal personal weapons, which I'll add do exist in the game).

What about rescue missions?

Think they should remain forevermore restricted to the game of "shoot the cargo hatch" or maybe do you think it might be fun to literally rescue them in person?

How about assassinations that present a target in a ship that's docked? You can't blow the ship up with your ship. But you can walk onto their ship (or sneak on it more like) and kill the target with a shotgun.

If none of this sounds fun to you then you just have to be one of those who aren't that keen on fps games. And if that's the case then of course interior game play won't interest you but then surely that precludes you from arguing the point when we know very well that we're getting fps combat next year?

But if you do like fps combat, or at least aren't against it, then surely even those few examples are interesting?

If not, I can come up with plenty more. And I can come up with - combative or otherwise - examples that'll fit most careers we can do already (and maybe add some more that just don't make sense with ship vs ship based interaction).

How exactly is in person piracy supposed to work? What if they jump away with you on board? Cant let that happen, so you need to disable their drives and probably shields first. Can't abandon your ship with hostiles nearby, so you need to kill all them first. This sounds like a much more difficult way to achieve what we already have with hatchbreakers. Same goes for search and rescue and assassination. You might do it once for novelty, but never again unless its mandatory. Face it, it's just a terrible idea.

 

[Ydiss]

,

How exactly is in person piracy supposed to work? What if they jump away with you on board? Cant let that happen, so you need to disable their drives and probably shields first. Can't abandon your ship with hostiles nearby, so you need to kill all them first. This sounds like a much more difficult way to achieve what we already have with hatchbreakers. Same goes for search and rescue and assassination. You might do it once for novelty, but never again unless its mandatory. Face it, it's just a terrible idea.

I actually explained in some detail how it might work in my first reply. It's too late to repeat but I'll be happy to run through it tomorrow.

Just remember... SLFs had way more "what ifs" about them yet... Here they are.

Just to confirm, piracy wouldn't even need tele presence to work.

So no, I won't admit it's a terrible idea. Definitely not with your limited imagination as the only persuasion attempt.

 

[Eraden]

,

How exactly is in person piracy supposed to work? What if they jump away with you on board? Cant let that happen, so you need to disable their drives and probably shields first. Can't abandon your ship with hostiles nearby, so you need to kill all them first. This sounds like a much more difficult way to achieve what we already have with hatchbreakers. Same goes for search and rescue and assassination. You might do it once for novelty, but never again unless its mandatory. Face it, it's just a terrible idea.

You are so good at spouting off stuff as if you are the sole authority on these matters. Once again, you show little by way of creativity and much by way of making very bold claims without a shred of evidence to back those claims up. Piracy is only one possibility of many that could arise from detailed ship interiors. Imagine, for example, you get medical missions which require you to do some work in your sickbay, or exploration missions where you need to analyze samples from a far off world in your laboratory. The possibilities are endless. You are viewing this issue through a very narrow lens and your bias is quite apparent.

 

[DemiserofD]

I actually explained in some detail how it might work in my first reply. It's too late to repeat but I'll be happy to run through it tomorrow.

Just remember... SLFs had way more "what ifs" about them yet... Here they are.

Just to confirm, piracy wouldn't even need tele presence to work.

So no, I won't admit it's a terrible idea. Definitely not with your limited imagination as the only persuasion attempt.

And I pointed out massive problems with your ideas. Dont act like you can get around the massive problems by ignoring them.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

,

How exactly is in person piracy supposed to work? What if they jump away with you on board? Cant let that happen, so you need to disable their drives and probably shields first. Can't abandon your ship with hostiles nearby, so you need to kill all them first. This sounds like a much more difficult way to achieve what we already have with hatchbreakers. Same goes for search and rescue and assassination. You might do it once for novelty, but never again unless its mandatory. Face it, it's just a terrible idea.

ED was released as a MVP in may ways with some features as bare bones. Some features were absolutely meant to be fleshed out and changed "up" in time. Shooting a cargo hatch for a rescue mission really makes no sense and as such as much as some may not like it IF rescue missions supported ship boarding then imo for better or for worse the shoot the cargo hatch to rescue the person would have to cease to be an option
That is just IMO however if you think I missinterpreted FDs intentions well I guess that is possible.

I will concede I do think PvP forced ship boarding actually may be beyond ED due to the way it is made (despite it being a goal for FD to implement). Personally i just don't see the network holding up and I don't think enough players would be happy with it happening to them ... But that could be my bias talking there and IF FD pull it off then fair play to them , it is not something I will be doing however. Imo npcs. Boarding our ship and us NPC ship boarding will be much simpler to implement

 

[Ydiss]

And I pointed out massive problems with your ideas. Dont act like you can get around the massive problems by ignoring them.

I didn't.

But you didn't read my post so...

Two of your problems are countered by my first post (which you missed). The other one (hostiles nearby) is a bit weak considering that is already a massive restrictive measure on piracy now but I just see it as an opportunity for better game play.

I just don't have time now. I'm going to bed. You'll get a reply tomorrow. Though I'm pretty sure you dislike fps game play anyway. So I'm sure it won't be for your benefit.

 

[DemiserofD]

You are so good at spouting off stuff as if you are the sole authority on these matters. Once again, you show little by way of creativity and much by way of making very bold claims without a shred of evidence to back those claims up. Piracy is only one possibility of many that could arise from detailed ship interiors. Imagine, for example, you get medical missions which require you to do some work in your sickbay, or exploration missions where you need to analyze samples from a far off world in your laboratory. The possibilities are endless. You are viewing this issue through a very narrow lens and your bias is quite apparent.

I prefer to think of it as realism. Why on earth am i doing brain surgery in a spaceship simulator?

 

[DemiserofD]

I didn't.

But you didn't read my post so...

Two of your problems are countered by my first post (which you missed). The other one (hostiles nearby) is a bit weak considering that is already a massive restrictive measure on piracy now but I just see it as an opportunity for better game play.

I just don't have time now. I'm going to bed. You'll get a reply tomorrow. Though I'm pretty sure you dislike fps game play anyway. So I'm sure it won't be for your benefit.

I went back to re-read your post, just in case I missed something, but it clearly provides absolutely no explanation for how I benefit from needing to fully disable an enemy ship before beginning the piracy process, as opposed to just doing it immediately with hatch Breakers.

Virtually every "use" faces the exact same problem; why the heck am I doing this in person rather than using the very useful robots I have that can do it better?

All You end up with, is an inefficient and impractical way of achieving the same effect, and as others and myself have pointed out countless times, that will be a novelty you will use once or twice, before ignoring it entirely.