Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
LittleAnt said:
So when CIG add instable ore, heads or consumables for minig it's nollocks iteration too ?
Or when they add a new damage type to the FPS gameplay, nollocks iteration too ?
Or when they add consoles for paying fine, hacking card to remove crimestat, nollocks iteration too ?
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Read the patch notes again. It's full of adressing exploits and work-arounds found by players. Having a plan would be to design a system that can't be easily gamed.
 

Gregstrom

G
Agony_Aunt said:
In my younger days I spent a few months up in Glasgow. Took me about a month before i could understand a word the natives were saying.


That's Glasgow... i can imagine the Orkney accent being an order of magnitude worse!
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I was at uni with a couple of Orcadians. If they were anything to go by, the accent is a lot softer than Glaswegian.
 

Tifu

Tifu
Zieman said:
That might not be very easy to do successfully though.
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Easy to do? Absolutely not. But very necessary because if there are too many holes at the start then it won't be possible to close them in time before game balance is terminally borked.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
So when CIG add instable ore, heads or consumables for minig it's nollocks iteration too ?
Or when they add a new damage type to the FPS gameplay, nollocks iteration too ?
Or when they add consoles for paying fine, hacking card to remove crimestat, nollocks iteration too ?
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Well, i'm not calling it "nollocks" but personally i wish devs would stop this whole business of "tier 0" implementations. Its not just CIG. FD do it with ED. I'd rather have well rounded out features developed than multiple "teir 0" features.

Of course, CIG, in theory, can do all this tier 0, tier 1, tier 2 implementations before releaes, assuming they don't mind taking another 10 years to release the game and the backers keep giving them money.

But looking at CR's recent statement, it looks like they are going for an MVP, which probably means, if they are going to release in the next few years, a lot is still going to be tier 0 or tier 1 (whatever those words really mean).
 

Sanya V. Juutilainen

Sanya V. Juutilainen
LittleAnt said:
They release by iteration. It's not because you don't see a mechanism in the first iteration that the mechanism is not in the plan. They have to code it and the Law System is not in their priorities. For instance, the surender option was pushed back in the roadmap.
It's like the actual tag system on bounties, it's just the first iteration and will be improved.
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So they are doing stuff like Elite, just without releasing and with crashes.

NBDB
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Agony_Aunt said:
Well, i'm not calling it "nollocks" but personally i wish devs would stop this whole business of "tier 0" implementations. Its not just CIG. FD do it with ED. I'd rather have well rounded out features developed than multiple "teir 0" features.

Of course, CIG, in theory, can do all this tier 0, tier 1, tier 2 implementations before releaes, assuming they don't mind taking another 10 years to release the game and the backers keep giving them money.

But looking at CR's recent statement, it looks like they are going for an MVP, which probably means, if they are going to release in the next few years, a lot is still going to be tier 0 or tier 1 (whatever those words really mean).
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There's an argument there that with online games being what they are, an iterative aproach does allow you to get some telemetary about how people play with a new feature rather than trying to guess. Most online games evolve. Obivoulsly this hasn't been great for Elite where something like Powerplay seems to be largely forgotton about but other aspects such as mining/trading and even missions are massively improved on what they were a few years ago, largely due to understanding how the game actually works with thousands of players.

This is a major problem for Star Citizen since so few of those features appear in any form and the vast 'MMO' aspects have taken a back seat to "fidelities", so even if Roberts does get his multi-room multi-gas mult-player "running around trying to put out a fire while an NPC finishes you off and randomly dying for some reason that might be because of some weird room gas variables or just starvation yay!" it will take significantly more time before it matures out in the real world.
 

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ZeeWolf said:
There's an argument there that with online games being what they are, an iterative aproach does allow you to get some telemetary about how people play with a new feature rather than trying to guess. Most online games evolve. Obivoulsly this hasn't been great for Elite where something like Powerplay seems to be largely forgotton about but other aspects such as mining/trading and even missions are massively improved on what they were a few years ago, largely due to understanding how the game actually works with thousands of players.

This is a major problem for Star Citizen since so few of those features appear in any form and the vast 'MMO' aspects have taken a back seat to "fidelities", so even if Roberts does get his multi-room multi-gas mult-player "running around trying to put out a fire while an NPC finishes you off and randomly dying for some reason that might be because of some weird room gas variables or just starvation yay!" it will take significantly more time before it matures out in the real world.
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Warframe iterates. But not by dumping crappy buggy new mechanics into live. They are actually thought through. They dont always get played as intended but then they often get reworked.
The multicrew release was kinda rough.
In any case - they avoided the design problem of dumping pvp and pve into one game mode from the get go. SC will learn that lesson the hard way.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Agony_Aunt said:
Well, i'm not calling it "nollocks" but personally i wish devs would stop this whole business of "tier 0" implementations. Its not just CIG. FD do it with ED. I'd rather have well rounded out features developed than multiple "teir 0" features.

Of course, CIG, in theory, can do all this tier 0, tier 1, tier 2 implementations before releaes, assuming they don't mind taking another 10 years to release the game and the backers keep giving them money.

But looking at CR's recent statement, it looks like they are going for an MVP, which probably means, if they are going to release in the next few years, a lot is still going to be tier 0 or tier 1 (whatever those words really mean).
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Like multicrew? "It will be iterated when players use it enough?"

Like an barebones game system would magically attract players. Tier 0 development is just ticking of checkboxes. Milestone reached. Where is paycheck. It's a lack of creative direction to just dump mechnics in without having a plan to connect them.
Some games function because players found a function for themselves. Counting on that to happen is lottery.
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
LittleAnt said:
They release by iteration. It's not because you don't see a mechanism in the first iteration that the mechanism is not in the plan. They have to code it and the Law System is not in their priorities. For instance, the surender option was pushed back in the roadmap.
It's like the actual tag system on bounties, it's just the first iteration and will be improved.
Click to expand...

Well I think its quite normal to judge something by what it is rather then what it will become especially when we have no idea what the "become" is going to look like. What you do....not just trusting but even defending that there is a plan despite not knowing if there is a plan and everything you currently have in your hands....is not normal. And when I consider that you are following this closely since 2013 its even worse then "not normal" but you do you. So either you have an undisclosed source that gives you that kind of confidence or its something else entirely.

Implementation by iteration is fine Lots of features are too complex as a whole to be implemented in one go so companies do it in tiers and add to the load once the first batch proves reliable and doing what its supposed to do. This approach has one massive requirement tho.....you either have the whole feature available already or you know exactly where you want to go. This is necessary because otherwise iteraional implementation would be a waste of time. This piece-meal implementation also is usually very fast-going, you want to reach the end result as quickly as possible without having your system hanging in between stages.

Now if either of those requirements was actually there I cant see a reason why CIG wouldnt simply share their plan or provide a timeline until feature x is completely implemented. Both should be easy to do if you are transparent and open in your communication. What they do right now looks to me like they are throwing out whatever they have, anything really to show some kind of development life and trust in their little drones to carry the message and keep the faith. Because they dont have an idea what the next step is themselves. This cannot work in the long term. Eventually time will catch up. What we see here isnt a "plan" but "polishing" which at this point in time would mean CIG is ready to dump their smelly mess on the market and make a run. Or maybe these pathetic splinter attempts of development progress will invigorate the faithful for another funding spree in which case the whole show continues.

Didnt CIG say in the past development speed will be adjusted month by month depending on how much money comes in? If thats true I d say the faithful havent been very supportive since 2016 or so ^^

LittleAnt said:
What "Nollocks" means ?
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Also not a "made up word". If you replace the "N" with a pregnant P you get the actual word ^^
 

Vetinari

V
MTBFritz said:
Also not a "made up word". If you replace the "N" with a pregnant P you get the actual word ^^
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thumb_not-sure-if-trolling-or-serious-not-sure-if-serious-50741020.png
 

hairychris

hairychris
Agony_Aunt said:
We have no proof CR is coding anything or that he is still in charge (or that he isn't in charge for that matter).

Do you have a friend with a friend with a friend who has told you CR has been so busy coding that as the CEO of the company he simply hasn't had the time to congratulate backers on reaching 300 million, or talking about the roadmap to the roadmap, or giving information about SQ42's release.

Wow, he must have been really busy coding to not even attend to his CEO duties. Some might even suggest that would be a dereliction of duties.
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If a company of >400 staff still has the CEO coding then they're in trouble. Coding is not what a CEO is paid the big bucks for.

Navigare Necesse Est said:
Fun Fact: I always thought Noggin were dingly dagly parts. "Right in the Noggins!" sounds just right for a kick in the nuts.
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The great thing about English which can make it really fun is that you can humourously substitute a lot of words in novel ways that still make sense in context. This makes it an utter nightmare for non-native speakers.

"... and then I nailed that guy square in the saucepans" could easily mean the same thing but is gibberish under any other circumstances.

I've plenty of non-native speaking friends. Even those who have lived in the country >20 years get caught out sometimes!
 
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