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COMPLETED CG Kavanagh Spaceframes Starport Initiative (Trade)
- Thread starter Kietrax
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Got it.
lets not forget that this CG was for the benefit of FC's
What did you expect? Give a CG to "certified" grinders, as most of FC owners are, and it will be completed in record time
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah shame that didn't work out. On the Friday when I was doing it I saw so many people asking if an FCs had the goods for sale, and I only saw one person saying they had around 3k tonnes, the rest of the time there was just silence. From a few pieces of chatter I saw your last sentence is exactly what happened. People still view CGs purely as a way of making money, and when you have 2mill profit on a T-9 full of Building Fabricators, plus whatever the final rewards were, the majority of people were always going to act in their own interests.
Sorry but I think that Canonn's efforts on the first Ram Tah CG still hold that as it was completed within 3 hoursWhat did you expect? Give a CG to "certified" grinders, as most of FC owners are, and it will be completed in record time
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
I disagree with this. I think if these CGs have shown anything it is that in my opinion FCs should be banned from the target systems, for two reasons.
1) Being able to load a FC up with up to 24k tonnes of goods and park it right next to the target station completely negates the 10 minute SuperCruise journey. Which means it automatically scuppers anyone without a FC, and also guarantees the CG will finish quickly.
2) The sheer amount of crashes being experienced by people means that there have been a large part of the community who haven't been able to contribute, and spent the last few days looking at Orange Sidewinder errors.
Yeah cause, if Im not mistaken, it involved some basic analytical thinking and problem solving, instead of grindy hauling back and forthSorry but I think that Canonn's efforts on the first Ram Tah CG still hold that as it was completed within 3 hours
It'd be interesting to see if a CG in a permit system did have fewer of those errors.
Colonia currently has just over 100 carriers present, and a medium-sized amount of player traffic, and I don't have any network issues at all there. It seems to be the combination of carriers and lots of active players which does it ... but maybe it's just the active players?
I respectfully disagree.
1. I do not have a FC but I used a couple of FCs to load up. Plenty of people used their FCs for the common good - loading up elsewhere an then letting local haulers get all the CG merits. This would have negated the long haul in a good way. Unfortunately they had to wait until one of a limited number of spots opened up.
2. The OS issues were not necessarily due to the FCs. Anyway - given it wasn't a locked system and therefore FCs could enter, my point stands that people who blocked up the slots with empty FCs were at least antisocial.
But can you perhaps expand on the "large part of the community"? Is there a thread about this somewhere with numbers of people unable to contribute? I've seen a couple in here but im not sure that counts as a large part. I had a couple of OS errors, but after a few minutes I was back in.
Nah, not really.
1. Those carriers will not fill by themselves. It takes time.
2. my experience after getting top10% in both CG on both accounts (pc/xb) was that the servers were unexpectedly stable given the circumstances.
I experienced only 1 sessions of Orange sidewinders on PC, cleared in about 3-4 minutes (2 consecutive crashes, after the second quit to desktop everything was smooth again)
Also one similar issue on XB, this time took me like 3 retries to get it running again. And as i said, i've been online half of Friday and most of the Saturday ferrying goods in both systems.
My experience:
I took part in the first CG, the one with the 8ls station without using my Carrier at all.
I only used my hauler Cutter ferrying Gallite from a system 47ly away from the CG. On both accounts.
Made it in top 10% on both accounts with 12000-15000 ferried tons.
For the second CG i decided to use my PC carrier which, after selling the Shipyard and Outfitting, had like 12500t free capacity.
Took me quite some time to fill it up using a single Cutter. Then i had to wait for a slot free in Tenche. Then took me again a lot of time to unload it.
All in all about 3 hours. If i had used that time to simply ferry goods doing like 5-6 runs per hour, i would had reached the about same results.
I also spend some time Saturday evening in Tenche - there were quite a number of commanders that were bringing in carriers to be unloaded by random cmdrs
So in those cases, the carriers helped everyone, globally
My point is: for a single carrier owner, the carrier can provide a different way to participate in a CG for the said commander. Not necessarily way faster, but different.
For the GC in it's entirety, granted that it helped push the numbers faster, but i would not say that it was sensibly faster (as in twice as fast for example...)
As a reminder, less than 2000 commanders managed to move close to 9 millions tons in a harsher CG (162000ls destination) without carriers, doing close to 20 minutes per run.
If That CG would had the same numbers of commanders like this one (4600+) that CG would had finished too way before deadline - with no carriers at all.
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Ironically the only systems I experienced any problems with the game in were intermediate ones when swapping between the two CGs, and the problems were nothing more than prolon drops out of jump. But I was in a quiet PG and never knowingly close to a FC.
What did surprise me was not noticing any drop off in supplies and my sources were only 2 jumps away in a loaded T9.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah cause, if Im not mistaken, it involved some basic analytical thinking and problem solving, instead of grindy hauling back and forth
To be fair it was just dumping Obelisk data and Frontier massively underestimated how much data players would have already collected over the months of the sites being discovered
But the one to build the Gnosis, and Obsidian Orbital, were very close to the highest number of participants and quickest finishes I believe still.I personally didn't experience any issues with getting into systems either on Friday or when I was in Colonia last week. I did experience quite a few issues in the bubble after Fleet Carriers were first released. Obviously only Frontier know the main causes of it and why it seems to be so polarising, in that it either seems to be a very light effect on you (if at all) and others are completely locked out. But it does seem very strange and a lot different to server issues we've experienced in the past.
Also Vincent no I do think there is a thread here with numbers, mainly because the forum is used by a tiny fraction of the player base. I was extrapolating by the comments I've seen on here, and on various Discord channels. Plus the amount of issues that have been created since Fleet Carriers were introduced, including ones for this CG. Lots of Fleet Carriers in a system definitely has a very negative effect on a lot of people's ability to play the game, and I would have though the amount of evidence over the last 3 months would be enough to make it obvious that it's also going to be affecting people trying to contribute to the CG.
i'm not contesting the fact that systems crowded with carriers are less stable, but i do wonder if the vast majority of people encountering the Orange Sidewinder are doing what i did on the first time it happened to me:
Orange Sidewinder > get thrown to main menu > try again > orange sidewinder > try again > ... repeat 3-5-7 times > abandon the game session for the day moaning and raising fist at FD - ultimately declaring the game unplayable
After i discovered that quitting the client completely (quit to desktop) is enough to get it running (at most i had to go through 3 iterations) things were not that harsh anymore.
Valid on XB too, although on XB one does not have Quit to Desktop and has to manually press menu on controller and quit the game from the home screen.
Orange Sidewinder > get thrown to main menu > try again > orange sidewinder > try again > ... repeat 3-5-7 times > abandon the game session for the day moaning and raising fist at FD - ultimately declaring the game unplayable
After i discovered that quitting the client completely (quit to desktop) is enough to get it running (at most i had to go through 3 iterations) things were not that harsh anymore.
Valid on XB too, although on XB one does not have Quit to Desktop and has to manually press menu on controller and quit the game from the home screen.
Yeah, got me too!
Even if fdev can't fix the Orange Sidewinder you would think they could make it so the game recovers without a complete restart
These are the kinds of things it would be great if fdev would actually comment on, at the moment it's impossible to tell if they:
a) Don't believe there are issues
b) Are aware, but don't know the solution
Yeah, got me too!
Even if fdev can't fix the Orange Sidewinder you would think they could make it so the game recovers without a complete restart
These are the kinds of things it would be great if fdev would actually comment on, at the moment it's impossible to tell if they:
a) Don't believe there are issues
b) Are aware, but don't know the solution
or c) They have a solution but it is either too expensive or it will break other things or it will take some time to re-code stuff
I'm thinking along the lines of NLB (network load balancer) and session persistence. When an node fails (crashed or overloaded and cannot accept any new connections) the client crashes with an error and then it should try to establish a new session to another node of the NLB.
If ED (the Client) establishes the session only before reaching the main menu... it may explain the behaviour...
So they either have to rewrite a lot of stuff in the client or they can leave it like this and fix it in Odyssey
but since i know nothing about their client/network infrastructure, all this is nothing more than tin foil hat theory
If ED (the Client) establishes the session only before reaching the main menu... it may explain the behaviour...
So they either have to rewrite a lot of stuff in the client or they can leave it like this and fix it in Odyssey
but since i know nothing about their client/network infrastructure, all this is nothing more than tin foil hat theory
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
It could be that restarting the client would have fixed it for a fair amount of people, not everyone I know, but unfortunately I think that's something only Frontier will know. And as Factabulous intimated that unless they comment on it we'll never know.
They did say that they would be paying close attention to how things play out with the first CGs and adjust things accordingly. I think it would be really good if as part of that they comment on the reasons behind the issues.
They did say that they would be paying close attention to how things play out with the first CGs and adjust things accordingly. I think it would be really good if as part of that they comment on the reasons behind the issues.
I made a similar assessment the other day, although in much, much less detail as my knowledge isn't that deep at all
Indeed, these two CGs finished WAY too quickly, the carriers themselves break the game in terms of fairness, BGS impact and most importantly when they're piled into a system, such as in these cases, cause loads of disconnections :_ ...
I get limited time to play games, aside from really on Sunday nights (when i was planning circa 20 runs in each of these CGs).
However in the stolen half hours and hours i got by Saturday about 1pm (when i'd checked about 1am and the Steel Castle CG was "only" haveway done), i had my ship outfitted for cargo, travelled to the target area, found some cheap gallite, only to see the price and think "W T F?!, am i at the right station, is it over already?!"....
I'd no choice but to sell my load for a normal profit and only made 960,000 vs a around 3.5 million, checking this CG, it again was "only" about halfway done, but was again hopeful it would at least last through Sunday night given the lower profit margins and jump in distance to the station,...
Only to login in last night and see that it indeed was over too - i said f e c k that then, and plotted a course out of the system, only to get five orange sidewinder errors in a row, due to all the damn fleet carriers clogging up the place...
I could finally leave this afternoon, but all in, this was a lot of mostly wasted time and much lost opportunity for me and many others
.Overall, even if they double or even triple the target for the next such CG, if they don't heavily limit the carriers allowed in system or even as you said ban them or perhaps limit the amount of cargo they can store, they'll probably still be ruined
.Well, it's a real-time game.
Things are bound to happen in the game and a certain number of people will miss out
This is rather unavoidable.
I'd rather miss out a CG that completes early by reaching all its goals (in this case we get 10 outposts upgraded to Full Stations) than risking to have it miss out its objectives so i can participate and get what?10-20 millions credits?
Well, it's a real-time game.
Things are bound to happen in the game and a certain number of people will miss out
This is rather unavoidable.
I'd rather miss out a CG that completes early by reaching all its goals (in this case we get 10 outposts upgraded to Full Stations) than risking to have it miss out its objectives so i can participate and get what?10-20 millions credits?
Even given the real time aspect, you hope these last at least through Monday, if not 'til Wednesday night/Thursday morning to give the largest amount of people possible time to get involved...
Only 3,600 and 4,500 people got to these before they finished, when such CGs normally attract 10,000-20,000
Even given the real time aspect, you hope these last at least through Monday, if not 'til Wednesday night/Thursday morning to give the largest amount of people possible time to get involved...
Only 3,600 and 4,500 people got to these before they finished, when such CGs normally attract 10,000-20,000
oh, you been away for a while i see... gone are the days with more than 10000 commanders on a CG
I play from end of 2018 and the biggest CG i ever seen was the Reorte GC from the last December - 8000 commanders. Usually they got like 2000-4000 commanders.
That one finished early too. On Monday i think - and it required to ferry 30 millions tons
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