Why do people wait until a community goal, to be oles?

[Deleted member 182079]

LoL did they know that there are explosions randomly happening inside the barrel I wonder?

No idea - the rank was pretty low iirc so likely not.

This is not as stupid as it may sound: the main danger from the environment is heat, not damage from collisions or weapons. Shields only contribute to heat. So if this hadn't been in Open, it even might have made some sense.

Yeah I thought about that, though given their rank and the location it was likely to be just a player who min-maxed and swapped the shield with a PAX cabin instead of HRPs/MRPs. I've recently built a T7 for these scenarios again, and it does feature a shield (see further below why), it's also rocking 4 engineered heatsink launchers so I can spend quite a long time in the oven to scoop up mats and cargo. Still able to carry 32 (or was it 64?) passengers and 128t of cargo, which is still plenty for each evacuation run, no need to sacrifice the shield for more.

Shield-less builds are certainly viable if you remember to make the ship sturdy enough elsewhere - I run 4 ships without shield, two of them miners (Cobra 3, FDS) which you wouldn't see me in busy places in Open as they're purely PvE, for when I feel like mining in the middle of nowhere in close proximity of my FC. They do sport engineered armour though in case I bump into an asteroid by accident, and am too close to a core explosion (bringing back some excitement to mining).

The other two are no pushovers - one is an AX FAS, the other is a PvP Viper 4. While I wouldn't engage other players in the FAS (would be very easy to escape in it though), I certainly have in the Viper, only on Friday at the CG. These ships, and especially the Viper, are 100% designed around the fact the shield is missing - armour, HRPs, MRPs, modules engineered with sturdy and armoured effects applied.

I greatly doubt that that AspX resembled anything close to the latter though. And I suppose they got away with it, at least at the time they instanced with me.

 

[Jikesaijo]

No idea - the rank was pretty low iirc so likely not.

Yeah I thought about that, though given their rank and the location it was likely to be just a player who min-maxed and swapped the shield with a PAX cabin instead of HRPs/MRPs. I've recently built a T7 for these scenarios again, and it does feature a shield (see further below why), it's also rocking 4 engineered heatsink launchers so I can spend quite a long time in the oven to scoop up mats and cargo. Still able to carry 32 (or was it 64?) passengers and 128t of cargo, which is still plenty for each evacuation run, no need to sacrifice the shield for more.

Shield-less builds are certainly viable if you remember to make the ship sturdy enough elsewhere - I run 4 ships without shield, two of them miners (Cobra 3, FDS) which you wouldn't see me in busy places in Open as they're purely PvE, for when I feel like mining in the middle of nowhere in close proximity of my FC.

The other two are no pushovers - one is an AX FAS, the other is a PvP Viper 4. While I wouldn't engage other players in the FAS (would be very easy to escape in it though), I certainly have in the Viper, only on Friday at the CG. These ships, and especially the Viper, are 100% designed around the fact the shield is missing - armour, HRPs, MRPs, modules engineered with sturdy and armoured effects applied.

I greatly doubt that that AspX resembled anything close to the latter though. And I suppose they got away with it, at least at the time they instanced with me.

good idea to try

 

[Ian Doncaster]

For me this comes from an immersion/roleplay (sorry!) thing.

Also for me, I go even further - to the point where if it isn't communicated in some way - then it may as well be no reason, as it's functionally the same.
It would be nice if Frontier allowed easier ways for people to communicate such reasons though. The comms panel is half decent for it but there could be better methods.

It also makes it very boring for me if other players are just shooting at you for no in game reason (that you know of ) and very interesting and exciting if there is an in game reason (you know of)

Sure, I agree with all of that - I'm a big fan of in-game story and in-game player-driven story - and ways to send translated fixed messages so people could communicate that [1] quickly would be good. (Partly there's a big issue that you can either be talking or shooting, so at the least I'd expect any such explanation to come after I'd got away)

Given the reaction to claims of BGS-motivated PvP is generally that it's "a fake reason" / "not a good enough reason" / "players have an obligation to be maximally quantitatively effective at all times, and PvP isn't so it's still a bad reason", however, I suspect you're rare in that case.

[1] And perhaps more generally usefully also cooperative messages like "heading to RES, want to wing up?" or "need to buy Tritium" etc.

Also, it wouldn't solve anything because the shooty sally squad would just destroy people and leave the cargo, they probably don't have a cargo bay because they can cram one more hull reinforcement in there.

That's true, but since neither cargo bays nor HRPs show up on a subsystem scan, you'd never know for certain.

Given the NPCs sometimes say "I'm not one for scans, I'll just kill you and scoop up what's left" it's slightly surprising that this doesn't happen anyway.

(Obviously successfully disabling a target would get you a lot more cargo and a lot less criminal record, so would still be worth doing in many cases)

So maybe that's it? The lack of loot cans on death making their death "not worth it"?

I'd certainly be in favour of that just from a PvE perspective because it worked better in the previous games that way.

That said, killing a player gives you combat rank (if you're not already Elite), fighter pilot rank (if they're not) and squadron leaderboard points, so it's not completely without in-game worth as it is. All pretty marginal stuff and not the optimal way to get any of it, but...

 

[SCiARA]

I still don't get the players that are bringing this up but will not use the other options
I'm guessing the reason why people don't play solo PG is that they want a galaxy full of players?
also is it easy enough to block someone?

what is the addictive draw to open play that the other options don't include?

 

[Jukelo]

I thought you could shoot Wanted even in the no-fire zone as long as you scan them first.

Shows what I know.

Simon

You can. You'll get a 100cr fine because you're shooting in an area where shooting is considered dangerous to the station and the local traffic, but a fine is nothing. You aren't going to be attacked by the station, and you can simply pay off the fine when you dock.

I think you mean 'hypocritical'. Low Life and Bully are descriptors for the thuggery that you wish to endorse as valid game play. For you perhaps. For me, I'd very happily live without PvP being a thing in this game. I wholesale reject the violent mindset of men. For me you are everything that is wrong with this RL world we live in.

Just a hypothetical: You say that in RL that you are nothing like the in-game villainous character you 'play'. So why do you need to play a villainous character if this does not meet some need in your character? Why do you feel you need to defend your right to seal club people who just want to play a game without getting people like you ganking them? Personally, I think the hypocrisy is right there...

Edit: and btw, you know nothing about me either. I lived as a man for 40 years before I transitioned 17 years ago. A life I'm very glad to put well behind me. But it did provide the opportunity to know very intimately how and why men think the way they do...

Well after 57 years maybe it's also time for you to learn that many games are for escapism, to experience all the things we can't, often shouldn't, and probably wouldn't want, to experience in real life? And that since ED is such a game, the rules of which we all agree to (or the lack of rules in this case), you are way out of line with your characterizations

 

[Deleted member 182079]

You can. You'll get a 100cr fine because you're shooting in an area where shooting is considered dangerous to the station and the local traffic, but a fine is nothing. You aren't going to be attacked by the station, and you can simply pay off the fine when you dock.

Would a fine still result in a detention centre visit though? As that is what seems to have happened to me - I didn't engage clean ships and didn't fire at the station either ... surely I would've noticed the response - I got killed by the CMDR I was fighting and who was wanted. Unless I missed something in the heat of the battle.

 

[Jukelo]

Would a fine still result in a detention centre visit though? As that is what seems to have happened to me - I didn't engage clean ships and didn't fire at the station either ... surely I would've noticed the response - I got killed by the CMDR I was fighting and who was wanted. Unless I missed something in the heat of the battle.

I haven't died in a long while and my last C&P tests were a good while ago (and I'm a bit too lazy atm), but I would expect that dying with either a fine or bounty (in the current jurisdiction that is) would indeed send you to a detention center. Unlike paying it off through the legal channels, which in the case of a bounty does send you to a detention center, but doesn't for the fine.

 

[Arindor]

To be fair most online games have idiots, it's just that CGs allow them to congregate. Take away their fun by playing solo!

 

[Susanna]

Here are a few things I'd recommend considering before participating in this conversation further.

1) Elite is a fantasy world. The actions of a CMDR inside this world in no way automatically reflect the reality of the player behind it. In other words, just because you take an antagonistic action in game does not mean you are a bad person in real life.
I'd beg to differ on that point as all of our actions, whether in-game or RL reflect our character, our moral code... You can say your are roll-playing, but really that is a fiction. You roll-play that character in-game because it appeals to you in RL. In other words, it's part of your RL characteristics.
2) Open Play allows for the possibility of asymmetrical PvP at any time. We're six years in and this fact has not fundamentally changed. It's clearly working as intended. This does not mean all there is in Open is PvP. Obviously not.
Sadly, that defines Open mode for me. Asymmetrical PvP. It's not about fairness. It never was and never will be.
3) Since it's clearly working as intended, the only reasonable way to approach the game is this: choose your mode, prepare accordingly.
I do! But it is sad that this is the best that Elite, as a gaming genre, can become. A playground for bullies and griefers.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

...
, you are way out of line with your characterizations

Not really, but your and Susanna's opinions show perfectly that FD clearly has mismatched its audience of ED and hasn't provided satisfying methods players interact with each other (or not).

 

[CMDR Yates]

¡Olé!

 

[Jmanis]

¡Olé!

Oh thank god it wasn't just me.

 

[Susanna]

I think maybe that question answers itself. Whilst I'm sure that RL bullies continue to bully online, I think we'd have to accept that those roleplaying (any role) are unlikely to pick one that matched their RL, otherwise, what is the point? I once saw someone describe their CMDR that they role-play as 'Someone who gets the job done', it immediately made me wonder how much of the job the RL person behind the CMDR gets done? Of course a law abiding citizen is going to get a kick out of being the villain in a game that has no real consequences. I imagine it is why so many actors get a kick out of playing the bad person in a film. It is a chance to be something they are not.

I couldn't let this go without commenting. I hope my words aren't clumsy, I genuinely mean it when I say, that is a brave admission and I'm impressed by the courage it must have taken to make it.

I don't know, I think people like roll playing something that reflects their RL personality. It gives them a platform, a mirror, to see themselves... Something that is often missing in RL.

Thanks for the respect re my transition. Believe me when I say it takes some balls when you are laying on that op table...

 

[Brrokk]

To be fair most online games have idiots, it's just that CGs allow them to congregate. Take away their fun by playing solo!

But they don't like that. It will cause Open-only forum threads.

 

[SCiARA]

a good a time as ever to post this

Elite: Dangerous PvE - Mobius - Join the Elite: Dangerous PvE group

private PVE group, lots of members

 

[rootsrat]

I'd beg to differ on that point as all of our actions, whether in-game or RL reflect our character, our moral code... You can say your are roll-playing, but really that is a fiction. You roll-play that character in-game because it appeals to you in RL. In other words, it's part of your RL characteristics.

You are 100% wrong on this one. I personally often play various characters in RP games. I'd replay an RP game multiple times with different characters, some are good-natured altruists and others are ruthless murderers, depending on how I fancy playing the game.

You are now - not even assuming - but practically telling others how they role play their characters. You don't know that and this is where all your logic falls over unfortunately. Maybe your role play reflects your personality.

Mine doesn't. Not always, anyway.

 

[Susanna]

I would absolutely hate a PVE mode... bouncy ship hulls and invincibility flags would crush the suspension of disbelief even further.
But I do use block - because some people are just so boring.

Please add me to your block list!

 

[Susanna]

You are 100% wrong on this one. I personally often play various characters in RP games. I'd reply an RP game multiple times with different characters, some are good-natured altruists and others are ruthless murderers, depending on how I fancy playing the game.

You are now - not even assuming - but practically telling others how they role play their characters. You don't know that and this is where all your logic falls over unfortunately. Maybe your role play reflects your personality.

Mine doesn't. Not always, anyway.

Fair enough. I can only take you at your word.

 

[rootsrat]

Fair enough. I can only take you at your word.

And I yours. But telling others how they role play their game and what their motivation is to play in a certain way, where you simply don't know that and can only assume cannot really be seen as a valid argument in this discussion.

I.e. My main character is rather good-hearted smuggler who will go our of their way to help others, while having little respect for the law. But on my other account I have just started playing a totally cold-blooded pirate which doesn't really care about other people and will happily kill them if there is profit to be made.

My 3rd account is a university professor who travels the galaxy with tourists on board and learns about the history of humanity from the tourist beacons.

My 4th account's character I've not even planned yet.

And yet none of them really reflects my character IRL.

 

[Sylow]

a good a time as ever to post this

Elite: Dangerous PvE - Mobius - Join the Elite: Dangerous PvE group

private PVE group, lots of members

That would've been my advise before squadrons came around, too. Unfortunately it's at least my personal experience, that i met way less people in Mobius within a week of the squadron patch.

My suspicion is that people who joined squadrons mostly migrated to their squadrons private group. (Even strict "we are hardcore PvPers and only fly in open" squadrons made their own private groups within a week. ) Which of course drained the people from Mobius. On the other hand, me flying at odd times and not meeting that many people at those times anyway, this can be just my personal observation and things are fine for other Möbius pilots.