Yea I am on this side. If the only difference is name in game wise than it is a waste of spot in my eyes.
The iconic European DLC
- Thread starter avietar
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Yea I am on this side. If the only difference is name in game wise than it is a waste of spot in my eyes.
Don’t buy it then.
This is the second time I've seen this said here, just wondering what you mean by snowflakes
I was just using the same terminology they did.
I took it to mean a "smattering" or, to use the cooking term, a dash, of such animals. I could be wrong though. BTW your list is great, I'm still stuck on the wild boar instead of a Moose or Elk, but only because I think a Moose is going to be a "for sure" animal for a NA pack, assuming there is one, then again, if we got a Moose for Europe that would free up a spot in the NA pack.
I won't
Why not both?
If there's an animal I cannot have enough of is any of the lynx species.
If I were to choose between the two European lynxes I'd honestly pick the Iberian mainly due to their exciting and recent conservation history. Also, the Mediterranean shrub biome is almost untouched in the game. Extension-wise, it's not super predominant worlwide but still considered one of the 7-8 major biomes. I'd really like to see one of the most iconic animals of this biome in the game, at least, as well as some foliage like holm oak, thyme, rosemary and more pine species.
Yeah it would absolutely be a clone.
The term clone when discussing in-game animals has nothing to do with taxonomy or really any kind of literal classification, it's about the animal's morphology compared to its closest relatives. The Galapagos and Aldabra tortoises are completely separate species, but they're clones because making one of them only required minor model, colour, and texture adjustments on the other. It would be the same with the wisent, just as it was for the Arctic wolf, tiger, Himalayan brown bear, and so on.
In any case, I don't even know why it's up for discussion. The wisent/European bison is a great animal, but really, there are more unique European animals out there that would fill as-yet unfilled niches in the game. The oft-mentioned lynx is one of them (small-to-medium sized cats haven't been touched yet - snow leopards usually fall under the 'big cat' category), ibex or chamois (traditional mountain caprids haven't been done yet), red or fallow deer (the reindeer is a fairly specific animal), any kind of fox, hell, even the barbary macaque would be a nice addition.
I have to disagree, with both statements. I don't think any of the in-game scenery is a giveaway of anything. For a lot of it I think it was just miscommunication between the "animal" and "scenery" parts of the design team (both get told to make a camel, one makes the Bactrian, the other makes the dromedary, same with the crocodile and alligator). In the case of the deer, we have exactly one deer statue as part of the classic theme, which also includes a dodo statue - deer motifs are very common in Victorian-era European architecture.
As for the lynx, I don't think we should be selecting animals based on what is "prettier". That's likely the whole reason we got the cassowary rather than the much more iconic emu in the Australia Pack. In the lynx's case, I think the Iberian should be the first choice, purely because of its dire conservation status. It would line up far more closely with the game's messaging, and more to the point it would be a specifically European animal (whereas the Eurasian lynx crosses over into 'Asia').
You are not correct. The timber wolf is listed as Canis lupus. If anything, its current range (as shown by the Zoopedia) is far too small. See this map for the actual range of the species:
Canis lupus global range.
While the moniker 'timber wolf' is traditionally used in reference to Canis lupus occidentalis (the Northwestern wolf), it was once a common name for the wolf as a whole, in the same way we now tend to use 'grey wolf'. However, it is likely that Frontier originally intended on the in-game wolf being the Northwestern wolf and made a last minute change based on the fact that there were no European animals available. Whatever the case, as it is now the in-game timber wolf is just a generic grey wolf that can be used as a stand-in for literally any subspecies you want (including the Eurasian wolf).
You made the point better than I did. Obviously "clone" isn't exactly accurate but it's probably the best way to describing it. We definitely do not need any more paid dlc packs that have "clones" in them. If the next paid dlc is indeed Europe, that means no Wisent, brown bears or wolves! I think the community is sick of them on the whole. Let's take a look at each dlc so far, and what animals the community calls clones:
Arctic Pack
- Polar bear: I don't think it's fair to call this a "clone" and be mad Frontier included it. It was simply too iconic and needed to be in the game, despite it being the fifth bear in the game. If anything though, it emphasizes the point that the Himalayan bear never should have been added, and something else should have.
- Arctic wolf: Absolutely fair to criticize. As far as the in-game creature is concerned, they barely changed the model for the Timber wolf to use for this. Plus a new skin of course. Everyone and their mother wanted the Arctic fox, they clearly included this because it required less work, so they could work on other things. Would've paid another $1 for a fox, minus the wolf, and the rest of the same content tbh.
South America Pack
- Jaguar: Again, I don't think it's fair to criticize this pick. They left it out of the main game to, like the Polar bear and Red kangaroo, to be the main ticket items in order to sell their respective dlc. I feel like any South American dlc would've sold well regardless, but I digress. I will say however that the baby jaguars look horrendous and cartoony, and I really wish they would fix them.
- Llama: Terrible pick. Just awful. I'm sorry and I know people like the actual animal, but they added a domesticated animal in a South American pack with only four slots. Not even the wild ancestor, which still exists! How you justify this over the capybara, or howler monkey, or a thousand other things I will never understand. Essentially was just a white camel before we got the color variation update.
Australia Pack
- Cassowary: Let's be honest, we all knew it was this or the Emu. I made my peace with that and just accepted it, and fair enough, we needed more birds even if it functions the same as the ostrich. The choice of it being a Cassowary though....it's a stretch. I mean they look amazing, but choosing them over the emu which is the national animal of Australia? Tough sell there. The Cassowary could've fit more easily into a Southeast Asian pack imo.
- Dingo: I think it's totally fair to criticize this over the Tasmanian devil. It's not just another canine, but it's another Canis lupus! That's why it was added, same as the Arctic wolf. You can defend this decision if you want, but that's what it is. No excuse to exclude the most iconic predator in Australia, the Tasmanian devil, in favor of the dingo.
So in a way, there have been two "clones" in each pack. Some are a total non-issue (unless you have an issue with them not being in the base game) and some are pretty problematic. I would much rather we just get four totally unique animals for a change!
We end with a Mute Swan!Recent discussions about future DLCs made me remember when I was young and was taught about our native wildlife here in Europe. I realized that I've known about the quintessential European wildlife animals all my life. But they don't feel very exotic to me because they are, well, native. I think lots of Europeans feel that way here on the forums too. Anyway, here is what I feel are the quintessential European animals for a DLC:
View attachment 185635
Yes, ibexes are awesome, and so are musk oxen, lynxes, wisents, chamois, etcetera. I'd love to see all of them. But I think the four animals above are icons for European nature, just like wolves and bears (that we already have in-game in some form) and squirrels and hedgehogs (that are too small to be considered imo).
Red deer, wild boar, and European badgers would be able to share a habitat, and interestingly, so could European badgers and red foxes (they are known to burrow together and tolerate each other). However, red foxes cannot share a habitat with red deer and wild boar, as it would cause undue stress I imagine
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I would personally prefer the Iberian lynx because it physically looks much different thanks to it's facial hair, and it occupies a more unique biome than it's relatives, giving us the potential for some Mediterranean, Spanish plants, perhaps even a Mediterranean biome! Also, I feel like if we get the Iberian lynx first, it leave the door open for a Canadian lynx or Bobcat in any North American dlc. I probably wouldn't want the Eurasian plus one of those two as they're all much more similar to each other, and fill similar niches in a zoo.
Would absolutely love to have them in the Game. Maybe they could do something like a Waterfowl or Ponds and Lakes DLC.
Funfact: a Mute Swan is strong enough to break a Humans Bones with its Wings
But again, unless I make a Portuguese, Spanish or at a push, French zoo (a zoo in France is due to receive them but it was delayed by the pandemic) it just isn't realistic to have them. Whilst the Eurasian lynx is in the top 100 most common species in Europe. So fine if you're happy to have a random selection of cool looking animals - and judging by your reaction to the inclusion of the cassowary I'd say you aren't - but otherwise the Iberian lynx is just too niche.
@markun thats exactly how I feel about the two lynx subspecies. Truth be told I’d be happy with either or. Either one adds a element and a small cat that we don’t have in game yet. For me I’ll admit I’m a little biased as I do like the Eurasian looks wise better but the other reason is simply zt2 had the Iberian lynx and although I enjoyed it there’s part of me that thinks the Eurasian would be a nice unique change from zt2. Same game or not. I don’t know how popular Eurasian lynx are in zoos I know my local zoo had Canadian and I’m sure Iberian are housed in many zoos based on conservation. To me it’s kinda like the Himalayan brown bear ( cool subspecies in its own right) I’m even currently using them in my current zoo but if I would have known we would have a brown bear subspecies I would have chosen the Eurasian simply because it’s not in other zoo games we’ve had in the past as zoo tycoon 2013 had like 6 or so subspecies but that’s just me.
Currently only five, all in Spain and Portugal and I believe most if not all are ‘ambassador’ animals being kept to raise awareness and educate people as well as move non-breeding individuals from the conservation/breeding centres which aren’t open to the public. I’m not an expert but I believe that’s the current situation.
We know that doesn't matter. It's never mattered.
The fact is that the Iberian lynx is critically endangered. The Eurasian isn't.
How about the conservation status of the llama? Clearly that isn’t the sole consideration for inclusion of a species and I stand by my view that given we won’t get a huge number of species, the Eurasian lynx would be a better and more representative choice for the game.
Yep, my thoughts exacly. And I would actually prefer Frontier to take the "common in zoos" road instead of the conservation road. At the end of the day it's a zoo game with some nice conservation messages dówn the line, not a conservation-awareness game with a zoo option. And to be completly honest, they shoveled "but think about the wellbeing of THAT animal" enough down my throat with the discussable space requirements of the Polar bear.
Of all the potential pig species, does anyone really want a Wild Boar? And as much as I'd love to see a Red Fox, it's not really specific to Europe... in fact, their distribution ranges across most of North America, throughout Europe and Asia, and even into Africa... unless you go with one of the 45 different subspecies...
At this moment in time, I'd say an ideal European Pack would be, for me:
Alpine Ibex (Capra Ibex)
European Badger (Meles meles)
Red Deer (Cervus elaphus)
Iberian Lynx (Lynx pardinus)
At this moment in time, I'd say an ideal European Pack would be, for me:
Alpine Ibex (Capra Ibex)
European Badger (Meles meles)
Red Deer (Cervus elaphus)
Iberian Lynx (Lynx pardinus)