Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Mole HD]

That's a strange one for me. While the faithful love to talk about how CR promised NPC to player ratio of 100 to 1, with NPCs being indistinguishable from players, the fact that the only place you will see NPCs flying ships is in a couple of missions, with no NPC traffic, is quite bizarre.

They tried Elite style interdictions by NPC cops...which failed miserably since the Ai controlled ships didn't register the presence of the human controlled interdicted ship during the encounter and more often than not, crashed into it when approaching or leaving the cookie cutter programmed scene. Ci¬G then turned to the simplest form of FPS Ai for the bunker missions having failed in attempting to get their Ai controlling ships...or moving between areas separated by doors or elevators...which is where we're at. Brain dead FPS Ai which come to life only on basic Ai triggers (area, sound, movement) and little else.

Ci¬G are promoting emergent gameplay and heavy player agency exactly for that reason...broken and unworkable Ai...emergent gameplay which for some reason in Star Citizen land means randomly exploding anything else controlled by other human players...nothing else since there's absolutely nothing else to do and no NPC presence to make anything gameplay related even remotely interesting. That's not emergent any more than I'm an emergent debutant...it's plain old PvP pew for the sake of PvP pew, nothing more.

Going back as far as 2.63 or any patch pre 3.0 there were loads of NPC controlled ships...mostly pirates during missions or patrolling areas (Tessa's ICC missions being everyones favourites)...but they worked acceptably, flew reasonably well and even initiated radio chatter during combat. Then, Ci¬G made the ships so internally complex for no apparent reason other than a distorted sense of fidelity that the Ai could no longer control them or fly them effectively so they were removed.

I was watching one of my old YouTube videos when I first got Deadly combat rating in Elite...on the Xbox and way before RNGineers infested and broke everything skill related...a blast from the past and fond memories of when triple Elite actually meant something. I've been there twice, once on Xbox and again on PC...and contrary to popular belief, the Combat Elite rating was the easiest besides trade Elite. If you want to brag about being Elite...the Exploration Elite rating was a bit more than farming NPC kills in a hazres or moving boxes around a few systems... and by far, the most difficult and elusive of the 3

 

[Ronzer]

I don't recall "most other VR games" having a keyboard for the past five years. Seems that would be completely pointless for most other VR games.

Then again, I just use the keyboard if needed.

Well maybe not 5 years, but long enough to know these things are quite possible...my point was SC has this way, to me anyways, of doing things other games have done, but when they do it, it seems like an achievement. I even commmented to her "I cant believe Im chatting to you". Wait, chat?

Am I right in thinking you must be quite new to the bizarre world of Star Citizen?

Oh, I've been around since the start, I got an Aurora pack but I haven't put another cent towards them since. There's a few things I've noticed over the years, but sometimes haven't posted it, or others have anyways.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They tried Elite style interdictions by NPC cops...which failed miserably since the Ai controlled ships didn't register the presence of the human controlled interdicted ship during the encounter and more often than not, crashed into it when approaching or leaving the cookie cutter programmed scene. Ci¬G then turned to the simplest form of FPS Ai for the bunker missions having failed in attempting to get their Ai controlling ships...or moving between areas separated by doors or elevators...which is where we're at. Brain dead FPS Ai which come to life only on basic Ai triggers (area, sound, movement) and little else.

Ci¬G are promoting emergent gameplay and heavy player agency exactly for that reason...broken and unworkable Ai...emergent gameplay which for some reason in Star Citizen land means randomly exploding anything else controlled by other human players...nothing else since there's absolutely nothing else to do and no NPC presence to make anything gameplay related even remotely interesting. That's not emergent any more than I'm an emergent debutant...it's plain old PvP pew for the sake of PvP pew, nothing more.

Going back as far as 2.63 or any patch pre 3.0 there were loads of NPC controlled ships...mostly pirates during missions or patrolling areas (Tessa's ICC missions being everyones favourites)...but they worked acceptably, flew reasonably well and even initiated radio chatter during combat. Then, Ci¬G made the ships so internally complex for no apparent reason other than a distorted sense of fidelity that the Ai could no longer control them or fly them effectively so they were removed.

I was watching one of my old YouTube videos when I first got Deadly combat rating in Elite...on the Xbox and way before RNGineers infested and broke everything skill related...a blast from the past and fond memories of when triple Elite actually meant something. I've been there twice, once on Xbox and again on PC...and contrary to popular belief, the Combat Elite rating was the easiest besides trade Elite. If you want to brag about being Elite...the Exploration Elite rating was a bit more than farming NPC kills in a hasres or moving boxes around a few systems... and by far, the most difficult and elusive of the 3

Maybe CIG should just forget about NPCs except as decoration, keep space small, and focus on making it entirely a pew-pew PvP game. I'm sure sovapid would be overjoyed!

They could call it Theatres of Stanton Citizen or something.

As for Elite... ahem, i'm still not combat Elite.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Well combat Elite is still long ways off, other two I have had for a good bit of time...

 

[Mole HD]

Maybe CIG should just forget about NPCs except as decoration, keep space small, and focus on making it entirely a pew-pew PvP game. I'm sure sovapid would be overjoyed!

They could call it Theatres of Stanton Citizen or something.

As for Elite... ahem, i'm still not combat Elite.

And here was me thinking everyone that ever played Elite was combat Elite rating...Jameson at Shinrarta Dezhra is permanently full of them since they never seem to go anywhere else. After all, nobody can scan them out in the black and see the Elite rating they treasure so much

It's strange how the mostly PvP centric Combat Elite players never like to be reminded that they got that rating through farming NPC kills and nothing else

That promotion video...recorded way back in May of 2016 when I was still an Xbox player using nothing more than an Xbox controller and in the pre-Corvette/Cutter days when the Anaconda was king of all it surveyed...sorry about the lack of quality.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

333 million in pledges, over 400 million in funding, 600 people, 3 million accounts, 8 years, zero games.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I know this, I've played or play all this games (except Ark). I've killed, been killed and I betray or trick from time to time also (not my primary nature). But the way it feels in SC is... different. I don't get why it's different but it is (at least for me). It's more visceral. As I don't know why exactly, it's not a real argument for a discussion.

It's different because you build that world in your head...that's called IMAGINATION....you know I still love to play games for ZX Spectrum and I can tell you also how is a strange and different feeling when I play Elite on ZX Spectrum but if I turn on that game on Speccy to some random kid who have 15 he will look at me like I am totally nut......
And that's why "normal"players who try&play SC in free fly weekend usually said that game is just MEH but you "guys"desperately trying to explain them how game is not what they see atm and how SC is something bigger,different and never seen before but reality is that all of this is just something that you guys build in your own heads....

 

[sovapid]

They tried Elite style interdictions by NPC cops...

Cops don't interdict right now, but if you are flying around with a crime stat they will just appear.

Can cut quantum between Crusader and Microtech in the middle of nowhere and cops will show up out of thin air.

No going AFK and sitting still if you are a baddie.

 

[sovapid]

Maybe CIG should just forget about NPCs except as decoration, keep space small, and focus on making it entirely a pew-pew PvP game. I'm sure sovapid would be overjoyed!

They could call it Theatres of Stanton Citizen or something.

As for Elite... ahem, i'm still not combat Elite.

Even Eve has NPC's. I dont mind them. In fact the game needs them. Gotta have NPC cops to give some people a chance.

I'm not combat Elite either. Long grind to get that.

 

[Mole HD]

Cops don't interdict right now, but if you are flying around with a crime stat they will just appear.

Can cut quantum between Crusader and Microtech in the middle of nowhere and cops will show up out of thin air.

No going AFK and sitting still if you are a baddie.

I wouldn't know...I'm one of the resident carebears when I'm not shooting up Jorunn's 890 Bling-barge in my Prospector fitted with S2 fixed Attritions and the mining lazor of doom

I still haven't been to jail yet either...perhaps soon since Jorunn has apparently forgiven my past indiscretions and rather naively reinstated me onto his friends list...makes him much easier to track

 

[sovapid]

damn!

 

[Asp Explorer]

10 LET Games=0
20 INPUT GamesReleased
30 LET Games=Games+GamesReleased
40 PRINT Games

 

[Surefoot]

The main thing that strikes me when playing SC is that it's devoid of NPC ships. At a port, station or R&R stops...besides the occasional other player you might see docking, or pointlessly shooting at each other for 'reasons'... SC's entire playing area is devoid of that necessary NPC ship traffic to make it seem alive. I've no doubt someone will mention the Happy Valley type of totally unresponsive walking zombies that inhabit the interior spaces...but that's not AI in any shape or form...they're simply moving scenery with no more programmed intelligence than the spinning rings of Olisar station. (...)

Remember they did try and increase the NPC count, both pedestrians and ships, when was that, 2 years ago ? It was a complete mess. The increased walking NPC led to servers crashing, weird clusters of NPC stacking on top of each other, etc. (remember those "interesting" videos and pics of NPCs going through each other). The already abysmal frame rate took another dive. Then for the ships, they did spawn groups of pirates just anywhere, anytime, with no reason or logic, so they did appear right inside some stations blocking areas (imagine a 50m long ship teleported across the corridor you are trying to go through) and causing general havoc. I remember this was during a free flight event..
Anyway they rolled back this idea rather quickly and since then SC has been rather devoid of NPC life, indeed apart form the T-posers and at stations and those basic zombies in that subterranean base mission.

 

[Mole HD]

Remember they did try and increase the NPC count, both pedestrians and ships, when was that, 2 years ago ? It was a complete mess. The increased walking NPC led to servers crashing, weird clusters of NPC stacking on top of each other, etc. (remember those "interesting" videos and pics of NPCs going through each other). The already abysmal frame rate took another dive. Then for the ships, they did spawn groups of pirates just anywhere, anytime, with no reason or logic, so they did appear right inside some stations blocking areas (imagine a 50m long ship teleported across the corridor you are trying to go through) and causing general havoc. I remember this was during a free flight event..
Anyway they rolled back this idea rather quickly and since then SC has been rather devoid of NPC life, indeed apart form the T-posers and at stations and those basic zombies in that subterranean base mission.

Aye, that was last year...made for some mildly amusing screenshots if you ignored the broken mess of everything else

 

[Rubbernuke]

Re funding, I wonder what will be the year when people say 'enough'? That level of cash raised is frankly frightening now.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Cops don't interdict right now, but if you are flying around with a crime stat they will just appear.

Can cut quantum between Crusader and Microtech in the middle of nowhere and cops will show up out of thin air.

No going AFK and sitting still if you are a baddie.

That doesn't soiund very fidelitious. Surely when the cops get an alert they should finish their coffee and donuts first, walk to their ships, take off, scan to find you, fly to you, then drop out.

What sort of half-baked game is CR making here with such lack of fldels?!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

damn!

Still no game. Still no release date. CIG will still squander the money.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Re funding, I wonder what will be the year when people say 'enough'? That level of cash raised is frankly frightening now.

Looking at the backers, apart from the rare backer who seems to reevaluate things, they mainly seem content to throw more and more money at CIG.

Not all are impressed though. Just read about a newbie whale, they didn't say how much they were in for, but sounded like they jumped in head first, then actually played it, realized it was a giant poopoo, and want to refund.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Perseus and Polaris do that to you. I bought 3 Perseus and 1 Polaris

3 Perseus.....

This is why funding does so well. People like this.

 

[amigacooke]

damn!

Star Citizen, not only does it have trains in bases, it has gravy trains in reality. Chris Roberts thanks you from the bottom of his bank account.

It does beg the question, 'if people are prepared to give these sorts of sums without any hint of movement beyond alpha, what incentive is there to move beyond alpha?' CIG seem to have invented perpetual fiscal motion.