Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Mole HD]

I disagree.
Specific mechanisms/gameplays give specific stress/feeling. You can't give a "surprise" feeling if you have no "surprise" mechanism in your game. The feeling a player have is vastly due to gameplay/mechanisms a game serve him.
For a lot of people, parking a brand new car somewhere give more stress than parking the same car with just one little scratch on it. It's not "special pleading", it's how a lot of normal humans feel this situation.
SC serve the player with a mechanism where the way out of some missions is a mobile destructable device (player's ship) that the player have to manage and protect. So you have a specific stress tied to this mechanism, you can't deny it.

I kinda get where you're hinting at...but the ships mean absolutely nothing and are infinitely replaceable. I lend most of mine out regularly to random people during a session simply because I have no attachment to any of them...except perhaps my Pirate Caterpillar. I'm more fond of that since I had to earn the pirate skin in game rather than just purchase it from the store.

It doesn't stop me lending it out to completely random strangers though...I can never lose it through any form of carelessness or malicious intent by them so it has no significant value in game...to me or to anyone else. If it gets blown up through random terrorism...I just go spawn another one.

When it comes right down to it...and I'll make a completely pointless comparison here...I was genuinely attached to my Python in Elite, it was the one ship I never, ever removed from my inventory and had some pride it was still the original one I bought in game as soon as I had earned enough credits to own one. It was never blown up or destroyed...because I valued it more than a pointless kill/death ratio.

All in all, I spent more of my 5,500 hours in Elite flying it, fighting with it, trading in it, mining with it, exploring the galaxy in it...even fuel ratting with it... than any other ship that came before or after it. I lavished most of my engineering on it and bought numerous cosmetic additions for it...it meant something to me in a way that no ship in Star Citizen ever could...all because I had to earn it in game and learn how to use it's weaknesses as well as it's strengths. Ships in SC, besides their looks, are all generic real cash status symbols with absolutely no sense of achievement attached to any of them...and they'll never be anything more than that thanks to Ci¬G's predatory marketing department.

My Python will always be MOL-01 (Heart of Sparta)...first of all ships in my Elite ship hangar

 

[Firkrayt]

The main thing that strikes me when playing SC is that it's devoid of NPC ships. At a port, station or R&R stops...besides the occasional other player you might see docking, or pointlessly shooting at each other for 'reasons'...

20 millions of NPCs are staying home due to COVID outbreak, so you don't meet them. Just you wait till Hory Roberts introduces a vaccine in the next patch, and you will be drowning in NPCs.

Re funding, I wonder what will be the year when people say 'enough'?

No-no-no, it's just a pledge, not a purchase, so no refunding!!

 

[Tippis]

No-no-no, it's just a pledge, not a purchase, so no refunding!!

This is true. If it were a pledge, it would not be a refund but debt settlement, presumably with interest, after all.

 

[MTBFritz]

cuz god knows whatever backers paid so far isnt enough to deliver the game that people paid for for sure

I thought about it this night and I have an explanation why the stress I feel in SC is different from other games I play and why I feel it more "visceral".

All the situations were I have a different stress, I'm always solo and outside of my ship doing mission/stuff with my ship parked away from me. In the vast majority of PvP solo game, you only care about yourself. In SC you have to take care of you + your ship. If you are safe but your ship is dead, your are in trouble. When I do some mission on foot, I often take an animus just to be able to defend my ship from another ship if I'm outside of it. When I do a mission in a space station or park my ship outside of landing pad, I hide my ship in the structure of the station/surroundings when I can (sometimes forcing me to walk minutes on foot). During a mission, you have the permanent ticking "if I'm too long someone will blow up my ship".
This plus the fact that in SC you can feel very attached to your ship (that's my case) gives you a constant slight stress in the background of your mind when you leave your ship alone.

graphics....thats why.

Graphics are always the main factor in every SC pro-story. And if its not you keep wondering whats so special about it because whatevers described....doesnt really sound impressiveat all. Praising the fidelity, the level of detail, how evereything "works" together (meaning it has a moving part). Everything after that, all the scenarios described and reports about gameplay given are just additions to bolster the initial visual impression like when you focus on something specific you will recognize it everywhere all of a sudden. Why is something bad in other games but good in Star Citizen? Because it looks better. If other games provide whatever Star Citizen does and more.....Star Citizen still LOOKS better even if its inferior at which point it becomes superior again.

Graphics generate interest. But in Star Citizens case graphics also generate fun, immersion, content and quality all by itself....if you can believe the pro-fans.

I tend to not do that especially when extreme bias and double standard is demonstrated as its the case within the SC community.

I wonder if stubborness and denial can eventually result in acceptance or if it will just generate more resistence to the breaking point?

 

[[VR] Merkir]

10 LET Games=0
20 INPUT GamesReleased
30 LET Games=Games+GamesReleased
40 PRINT Games

Chris Roberts (typing over your shoulder): "No no. Let me refactor that for you..."

10  LET ShipJPEGs = ShipJPEGs + 1
20  PRINT ShipJPEGs
30  INPUT Cash
40  GOTO 10

 

[Vetinari]

a blast from the past and fond memories of when triple Elite actually meant something.

I and others still play the old way, nobody will know when I have my triple Elite that it wasnt farmed, but I will

As for Elite... ahem, i'm still not combat Elite.

Me neither, I dont farm though and I dont do AX, so its just as it comes while playing

Re funding, I wonder what will be the year when people say 'enough'? That level of cash raised is frankly frightening now.

Soon.

Looking at the backers, apart from the rare backer who seems to reevaluate things, they mainly seem content to throw more and more money at CIG.

I too think (and hope) it's more continuous expenses from already whales or dolphins than fresh new backers.

Its also incredible to see the sheer inflation involved- KS was what, 3 million? Its common now to see that each month going on for years. Its nothing short of a phenomenon really.

Id like to see the average price of ships since the KS. I have a feeling they will be getting more and more expensive each run. Some people will also be buying for Scrap or as 'investment' to sell on the grey market.

Figures sound awesome, lets look at them.

New ship was $600 - sell 1,000 = $600,000. Sell 5,000 = $3m. Sell 25,000 = $15m

Doesn't take many ships to reach the seemingly massive figures...but whats the number of actual purchasers from this supposed 3m Playerbase? 15-25,000? Maybe even less if multi purchase or grey market 'investors'.

Id like to see how the number of people dipping into their wallet has changed and whether thats sustainable by increasing sale price of ships.

. You can't give a "surprise" feeling if you have no "surprise" mechanism in your game.

I still remember one of the Resident Evil games where you had to go through a corridor between 2 rooms. The first 5 or 6 times there was nothing so you got used to just running through it then suddenly zombies come through the windows and attack. I loved that about Resident Evil, the ability to make you jump occasionally. Surprise, its not new or unique either, its just personal opinion which game has it or does it better for you personally, doesnt make the game better than the rest

 

[kilvenny]

I have been reading the posts and seeing LA's positive enjoyment which is echoed by the millions being poured in this month.

Do we think that along with the dream element that the following all conspire to make this "perfect" experience that other games don't have for those that have, because actually there is very little risk and the game can be enjoyed without "fear"?

1. Alpha, so not released and always with a wipe looming so loss doesn't matter, so you are paying for pleasure not an end goal.
2. LTI on ships
3. Players with multiple purchased ships, so can just switch on loss.
4. Server capacity limited to 50 but covering the whole system so spreading the player base out and limiting the "griefers".
5. Lack of any gameplay activity that means I have something valuable I cannot afford to lose, most of the risk is mitigated by 1-4.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I kinda get where you're hinting at...but the ships mean absolutely nothing and are infinitely replaceable. I lend most of mine out regularly to random people during a session simply because I have no attachment to any of them...except perhaps my Pirate Caterpillar. I'm more fond of that since I had to earn the pirate skin in game rather than just purchase it from the store.

It doesn't stop me lending it out to completely random strangers though...I can never lose it through any form of carelessness or malicious intent by them so it has no significant value in game...to me or to anyone else. If it gets blown up through random terrorism...I just go spawn another one.

When it comes right down to it...and I'll make a completely pointless comparison here...I was genuinely attached to my Python in Elite, it was the one ship I never, ever removed from my inventory and had some pride it was still the original one I bought in game as soon as I had earned enough credits to own one. It was never blown up or destroyed...because I valued it more than a pointless kill/death ratio.

All in all, I spent more of my 5,500 hours in Elite flying it, fighting with it, trading in it, mining with it, exploring the galaxy in it...even fuel ratting with it... than any other ship that came before or after it. I lavished most of my engineering on it and bought numerous cosmetic additions for it...it meant something to me in a way that no ship in Star Citizen ever could...all because I had to earn it in game and learn how to use it's weaknesses as well as it's strengths. Ships in SC, besides their looks, are all generic real cash status symbols with absolutely no sense of achievement attached to any of them...and they'll never be anything more than that thanks to Ci¬G's predatory marketing department.

My Python will always be MOL-01 (Heart of Sparta)...first of all ships in my Elite ship hangar

Imo the Python is zhe Cobra of ED. I only unlocked it near ED's shelf life terminated but it was perfect tool for several jobs.

 

[LittleAnt]

And this is what I mean by you ascribing things to SC that are all specific to you, not the game. You have decided that your completely replaceable ship is somehow special to you, in spite of the very first actual mechanic implemented in the entire tech demo being the one that ensures you suffer no real loss ever.

Which ones? And how are they different from what a bajillion other games offer?

You miss the point here. Me attached to the ship is just extra bonus and the cost of the ship/insurance doesn't matter. I was talking about the stress generated by your parked ship during a solo mission as this one is the normal final exit way to the mission. You come to the mission with your personal exit door. If your ship (whether or not you are attached to it) is blown up you will have troubles to get back to your base, even if you have won the mission your exit door doesn't exist anymore (if you don't suicide like I do). With your exit door gone, you have to create a new one by yourself (transport beacon/friend/walk 1 hour/etc) and this step can be harder/longer than the mission you just have won. I don't know a game with such a mechanism in the games I've played. If you know one I'm curious to know it.

but the ships mean absolutely nothing and are infinitely replaceable.

No, the ship is your exit door in every solo mission you do outside of it (if you don't suicide).

It's like getting worried that you might crash a car in GTA or something.

No, in GTA if your car is gone you have plenty others in the street or you just call your mechanic and you get any vehicle in 10 seconds. Your exit door is not gone, you just take another one near you.

I know you can't see it, but as I stated earlier, you are exactly the type of person Roberts was hoping to catch.

For sure. I've backed at the start of the project, I play the alpha and I follow its development. But CR he's not the only one. I 'm exactly the type of person CDPR and Tuxedo Labs (and numerous other projects I've followed) wanted to catch and they all pulled it off.

 

[Thargon]

But SC isn't Rome.

It isn't the Colosseum. It isn't the Forum. It's not even a small chip of marble lying forlorn in a gutter.

It's a bit of sponge that hasn't reached the stick yet.

Who is reemus? Is that Wing Commander (wothisname? He was really good for SC in the early days...) I think he got fired

I was looking for him on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop

Was it Eric? someone? (it was a good guess : https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/...hes-descent-underground-kickstarter-campaign/)

A lot of the early pages e.g. http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/0...ar-citizens-lesnick-and-haddock-on-player-fe/ don't exist anymore

ah here is the archive version

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Imperium_Games#cite_note-1

hmm blast from the past: https://web.archive.org/web/2017022...clusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts

 

[Firkrayt]

cuz god knows whatever backers paid so far isnt enough to deliver the game that people paid for for sure

You must be new here

Those dates look wrong, but they aren't.

I have been reading the posts and seeing LA's positive enjoyment which is echoed by the millions being poured in this month.

Do we think that along with the dream element that the following all conspire to make this "perfect" experience that other games don't have for those that have, because actually there is very little risk and the game can be enjoyed without "fear"?

Here be the wretched hive of those who don't understand game development. If spice is money are flowing, then Chris is doing all right.

Imo the Python is zhe Cobra of ED. I only unlocked it near ED's shelf life terminated but it was perfect tool for several jobs.

Nope, Krait 2 is zhe Cobra.

 

[Craith]

You miss the point here. Me attached to the ship is just extra bonus and the cost of the ship/insurance doesn't matter. I was talking about the stress generated by your parked ship during a solo mission as this one is the normal final exit way to the mission. You come to the mission with your personal exit door. If your ship (whether or not you are attached to it) is blown up you will have troubles to get back to your base, even if you have won the mission your exit door doesn't exist anymore (if you don't suicide like I do). With your exit door gone, you have to create a new one by yourself (transport beacon/friend/walk 1 hour/etc) and this step can be harder/longer than the mission you just have won. I don't know a game with such a mechanism in the games I've played. If you know one I'm curious to know it.


No, the ship is your exit door in every solo mission you do outside of it (if you don't suicide).


No, in GTA if your car is gone you have plenty others in the street or you just call your mechanic and you get any vehicle in 10 seconds. Your exit door is not gone, you just take another one near you.


For sure. I've backed at the start of the project, I play the alpha and I follow its development. But CR he's not the only one. I 'm exactly the type of person CDPR and Tuxedo Labs (and numerous other projects I've followed) wanted to catch and they all pulled it off.

1 hour walk? rookie numbers ... people were stranded on planets for weeks in Elite:

Help, I need Ship Rats!

*UPDATE* Rescue has been sucessful, I am saved and arrived back in the Bubble on the 14.07.3302! So, I just started going out exploring and about 1000Ly out, found a nice looking planet to drive about a bit and having fun. Good times! Then I recall my Ship and it was weird, my view was blocked...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Tippis]

You miss the point here.

No. You're just avoiding the question. And you're offering sweeping vapid generalities rather than actual examples of the supposed “special” and “different” nature of SC (which have been decisively disproven by this point).

So, I'm going to ask you again: which “specific mechanisms/gameplays give specific stress/feeling” and how are they different from what a bajillion other games offer?

Me attached to the ship is just extra bonus and the cost of the ship/insurance doesn't matter. I was talking about the stress generated by your parked ship during a solo mission as this one is the normal final exit way to the mission.

…and as mentioned, this has nothing to do with SC. It has to do with you imbuing a highly generic and universally available situation with an emotional charge that is entirely of your own making. The game doesn't create that. You do. That is the point.

No, the ship is your exit door in every solo mission

That is your choice, not the game, and it applies equally to tons of other games. SC is not special. SC is not different. SC is not what makes this happen.

No, in GTA if your car is gone you have plenty others in the street or you just call your mechanic and you get any vehicle in 10 seconds. Your exit door is not gone, you just take another one near you.

…and in SC, you can get a new “exit door” if you even need one, which you often don't — by your own account, even! Your exit door is not gone; you can just take another one. You can even call someone to get a new one. It's all there if you choose to. If you choose not to, then that is also on you, not the game. Your own explanation shows why the problem you're creating for yourself is just that: a problem you create for yourself. You have chosen to only accept one “end state” as the correct one, and don't want to employ any of a myriad of options available to you to avoid or get out of the “wrong” situation you find yourself in. How can you be so ridiculously blind to what you say yourself, and how it's a result of your choices?!

If you want to see time lost because of an unwanted outcome at the end of a mission, SC is casual trash next to what EVE or ED or, hell, even something as friendly as Astroneer will throw at you. And that's before I've even bothered to look through my games catalogue for more convoluted examples…

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

...
Nope, Krait 2 is zhe Cobra.

That came after my era with ED.

 

[Dooguk]

For sure. I've backed at the start of the project, I play the alpha and I follow its development. But CR he's not the only one. I 'm exactly the type of person CDPR and Tuxedo Labs (and numerous other projects I've followed) wanted to catch and they all pulled it off.

I'm more concerned about you spending more on this than you should, because you seem so emotionally involved. Though I don't give a crap about the game, I do feel for some of the backers who got roped in on wild exaggerations from Roberts and the devs, and now cannot refund. This game will never live up to what was sold. Roberts knows it and seems to be quietly moving further away.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I thought about it this night and I have an explanation why the stress I feel in SC is different from other games I play and why I feel it more "visceral".

All the situations were I have a different stress, I'm always solo and outside of my ship doing mission/stuff with my ship parked away from me. In the vast majority of PvP solo game, you only care about yourself. In SC you have to take care of you + your ship. If you are safe but your ship is dead, your are in trouble. When I do some mission on foot, I often take an animus just to be able to defend my ship from another ship if I'm outside of it. When I do a mission in a space station or park my ship outside of landing pad, I hide my ship in the structure of the station/surroundings when I can (sometimes forcing me to walk minutes on foot). During a mission, you have the permanent ticking "if I'm too long someone will blow up my ship".
This plus the fact that in SC you can feel very attached to your ship (that's my case) gives you a constant slight stress in the background of your mind when you leave your ship alone.

Well I'm not going to be Mr Negative here, people grow attachment to diffferent things. And well on ED too one can get in trouble if one's ship is destroyed while being out in SRV. Either by other player or sometimes clumsy autopilot. Though if I want to stress myself out with ED best way is return leg from exploration trip to some popular player hotspot system with all that data onboard, at open mode. As that data can represent weeks of gaming and usually contains a lot of "first found" tags. Ship I can replace easily and cheaply, but that exploration data is whole another question

 

[LittleAnt]

So, I'm going to ask you again: which “specific mechanisms/gameplays give specific stress/feeling”

I land to do a mission. I leave my ship outside alone with no protection (not a choice). I do my mission wondering if it will still be there when I will go out of the mission = generate a specific type of stress I haven't experienced in GTA/ED/Astroneer/etc. In none of this games I was wondering during a mission if my exit will still be there at the end of mission...
Ship is here >>> I can go home by myself
Ship blown >>> I can't go home by myself. It's not an "emotional charge that is entirely of your own making", it's a physical impossibility (because, you know what, you can't fly to a base without a ship in SC and I can't spaw one at will anywhere). Another example, if someone blow your ship and your are on foot on a hot/cold planet, you will be dead in x minutes by heat/cold if you don't find a way to exit the planet. You say "The game doesn't create that. You do", that's the exact opposite...

 

[LittleAnt]

I'm more concerned about you spending more on this than you should, because you seem so emotionally involved.

Less than 50€ for SC since the KS.

 

[Dooguk]

Less than 50€ for SC since the KS.

You have slightly more faith in Roberts than me.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I land to do a mission. I leave my ship outside alone with no protection (not a choice). I do my mission wondering if it will still be there when I will go out of the mission = generate a specific type of stress I haven't experienced in GTA/ED/Astroneer/etc. In none of this games I was wondering during a mission if my exit will still be there at the end of mission...
Ship is here >>> I can go home by myself
Ship blown >>> I can't go home by myself. It's not an "emotional charge that is entirely of your own making", it's a physical impossibility (because, you know what, you can't fly to a base without a ship in SC and I can't spaw one at will anywhere). Another example, if someone blow your ship and your are on foot on a hot/cold planet, you will be dead in x minutes by heat/cold if you don't find a way to exit the planet. You say "The game doesn't create that. You do", that's the exact opposite...

Well you are not going anywhere either with an SRV.