So cross-faction massacre + assassination stacking is the surviving meta?

[Factabulous]

I found them particularly useful when I was in the Witch Head nebula trying to unlock Gauss cannons for the CG and needed materials which I purchased from the carrier of one CMDR Factabulous. Thanks for that.

Using my own FC against me - dammit



Edit: I wasn't saying FC aren't useful - I love mine - just that people buy them for things where they just get in the way .. CGs especially

 

[Ydiss]

Hmm, I see why, but I like the flexibility of finding targets in different places. I'd certainly do less assassinations if I always had to visit the USS rather than hanging out at a Nav Beacon / supercruising around slowly etc. I can't help think the main payout should be associated with the target itself, rather than with the missions.

It's complicated - if fdev make the game flexible then people will find unintended ways to play (like cross-stacking). And that isn't a problem unless it becomes the meta and highlights something that seems bugged. And even that arguably isn't a problem unless it is unbalanced as well. Uh, software is complicated

It's definitely complicated if they want it to work well.

I edited my post to add a way of keeping it flexible. Every sustained aggressive action should really result in a response. The response is where fdev can limit things.

Ie if you're solo killing in a hazres and slaughtering Blue Monkey Pirates, the Blue Monkeys really should start sending in contract killers to attack you. If you're doing it in a wing, that response should be increased appropriately. With quite a high upper limit.

 

[PerchyPanther]

My point was that there comes a point, mid game, where you are practically forced to grind the credit-meta to make the leap from " rich enough to have all the ships you want" to "can afford a fleet carrier"
It's a big, big gap if there isn't a triple LTD hotspot or a magic egg.

 

[Ydiss]

The response thing should work for most carriers by the way. If you're mining normal stuff in the middle of nowhere who cares right? But if you're selling hundreds of tons of painite?

Someone should notice. Suddenly your mining trips might start calling for evasive or defensive actions. Appropriate to your earnings.

Same with trading. But for that to truly work we'd need to give Rubbernuke his wish of a wider jump in region outside of station no fire zones.

 

[Urbanski101]

The response thing should work for most carriers by the way. If you're mining normal stuff in the middle of nowhere who cares right? But if you're selling hundreds of tons of painite?

Someone should notice. Suddenly your mining trips might start calling for evasive or defensive actions. Appropriate to your earnings.

Same with trading. But for that to truly work we'd need to give Rubbernuke his wish of a wider jump in region outside of station no fire zones.

I've never understood the lack of consequence or NPC awareness. I've just slaughtered 100 of your pirate crew but you pass me by unless I'm carrying 1t of biowaste then it's a feeding frenzy. And best of all, NPCs from allied factions join in because that 1t of biowaste is worth more to them than an ally.

Same for trade and mining, you can tip the scales of an economy in a system and nobody bats an eye.

I guess all of that would require degrees of complexity that are probably out of reach for this iteration of Elite.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

And that isn't a problem unless it becomes the meta...

I'd argue, and have done since my thread last week, that cross-stacking IS currently the mete, people just don't seem to have noticed it yet.

Using EdTools and finding a suitable system and getting allied does take a bit of time of course. However, for those of us that were already doing the the changes are crazy.

I'd fully expect after the buff 3 changes settle down and more people test it, word will eventually spread to more ppl, likely via YT.

As it seems Jmanis and I were already in situ and doing this beforehand we seem to have noticed just how OP the buff 2 changes were a bit quicker than most.

 

[Jmanis]

I'd argue, and have done since my thread last week, that cross-stacking IS currently the mete, people just don't seem to have noticed it yet.

Using EdTools and finding a suitable system and getting allied does take a bit of time of course. However, for those of us that were already doing the the changes are crazy.

I'd fully expect after the buff 3 changes settle down and more people test it, word will eventually spread to more ppl, likely via YT.

As it seems Jmanis and I were already in situ and doing this beforehand we seem to have noticed just how OP the buff 2 changes were a bit quicker than most.

Yup. Pre- balance changes, massacre stacking was always held up as "proof" that combat payouts were balanced with mining.[1]

So the balance then dropped mining, and buffed massacre missions... the only reason i can think of for that is FD genuinely forgot cross- faction stacking was still a thing, since wing massacres expressly didn't get a similar buff.

[1] which it never was. Comparing a singular, unbalanced aspect of an overall balanced career choice, against an entirely unbalanced career proved nothing.

 

[Bigmaec]

Yup. Pre- balance changes, massacre stacking was always held up as "proof" that combat payouts were balanced with mining.

So the balance then dropped mining, and buffed massacre missions... the only reason i can think of for that is FD genuinely forgot cross- faction stacking was still a thing, since wing massacres expressly didn't get a similar buff.

They propably can't find them in game

 

[Factabulous]

I think cross-stacking is in the same place mining was last year - getting widely known, people starting to say it is OP, but using it anyway. Expect an incoming nerf from fdev in around a year*

*Depends if they dare to put in a fix in Odyssey, or maybe a PWA patch

I bet someone will ask Arf in the AMA today - I predict the answer will be 'we are monitoring the situation'

 

[Oytis57]

As per the thread title, since update 3 was apparently the final balance pass, it seems massacres + assassinations is one of the new big cash cow.

This is thanks to

• solo massacres receiving an entirely unnecessary buff to payout
• assassinations receiving a buff up to 4-5m payout
• bounties being buffed by up to 1m for the biggest ship kills[1]

My back- of- smokes maths tells me you can do the following:
1. Use that tool which i don't have a link to right now, to get a system with just one anarchy within 10Ly
2. Get allied with all the factions.
Take a massacre or two from each faction, depending on kill counts. For six factions, that should be anywhere between 120-240m
3. Grab as many assassinations as possible. If you luck out, it'll be up to 14 assassinations, depending on other environmental factors. Let's allow 20 mins for two board refreshes. This'll be another 80-90m for
4. Go to the target system and flush it out, which should take about an hour with a decent combat ship.
5. Hand in all the missions for about 300m in just over an hours effort.

stretch goal, do it with 3 buddies and use wing massacres for closer to 1b an hour.

Perfectly balanced!

[1] but not necessarily the hardest.

Yeah but I play for fun,don't want a job

 

[Danieros]

I bet someone will ask Arf in the AMA today - I predict the answer will be 'we are monitoring the situation'

Looks like we're going to need "AMA predictions" thread.

 

[Factabulous]

Looks like we're going to need "AMA predictions" thread.

Not really - the answers are very predictable

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah but I play for fun,don't want a job

More money means the game becomes more arcade like, since missions have not developed complexity to keep up to justify that level of reward. As such money, ships and planning have lost in game value (as in acquiring something is in minutes, everything is disposable and mistakes have no real consequences).

 

[Northpin]

I'm thinking you may be right. But I'm going to suggest that there won't be even a fraction of the community uptake in comparison to Mining

I'd suggest most will stick to Mining. The only way massacre stacking offers a quick route to riches from day one is if a friend shares wing missions with you. And even then, the actual process of building a suitable ship? Learning combat? Then actually doing it? Just not the same.

I do think that the so called uptake from mining is rather exaggerated and blown out of proportions.
The numbers are pretty conclusive i'd say - after 18-20 months of unrestricted mining with full prices for painite, ltd and/r void opals, at carrier launch we had like 12000 carriers and 6 months later we have like 16400

For an estimated population of more than 200k regular players (probably towards 300k i'd say) - I would say that mining didnt produced as many multi-billionaires as some one would think

Mining, contrary to common belief, required a certain mindset and a decent level of proficiency and focus to achieve those 250 millions per hour, and it required the use of map-mapping to get those 500 millions per hour or more. And that limited the uptake even more.


Now mining is more or less dead
Except for a very small number of players that did mining not for the cash, but for the activity itself, no one will mine anymore

And combat, which is much more fun, will see a sudden increase and i will say that it may increase the general wealth of the regular population more than what mining did.
I mean, seriously - a g3-g4 Conda which is within reach of basically anyone - can mop the floor with all those stacked massacre missions and can make more billionaires than mining did.
Even because it is more enjoyable to do combat and complete those missions than to do mining and search for that station that might give you a half decent price.


Now, i'm not saying that it is wrong.
But it is not balance either. Far from it

 

[Oytis57]

More money means the game becomes more arcade like, since missions have not developed complexity to keep up to justify that level of reward. As such money, ships and planning have lost in game value (as in acquiring something is in minutes, everything is disposable and mistakes have no real consequences).

After mining boost (so they could sell them damned FCs),it has become an arcade rush to the best money/h ratio,since long.If you check you'll see that 90% of the playerbase did jsut(and only) that,look on ED Subreddits and you'll find hundreds of people with couple of Billions knowing nothing about Engineering/Guardian stuff,Thargoids etc..etc..,it's already arcadish.

 

[Rubbernuke]

After mining boost (so they could sell them damned FCs),it has become an arcade rush to the best money/h ratio,since long.If you check you'll see that 90% of the playerbase did jsut(and only) that,look on ED Subreddits and you'll find hundreds of people with couple of Billions knowing nothing about Engineering/Guardian stuff,Thargoids etc..etc..,it's already arcadish.

Which is a shame, and a problem for FD, since they feel the only way is ever up. The biggest mistake they made was making money too easy to get.

Ship costs, fuel, repairs, ammo need to be made more expensive otherwise its rampant inflation with no consequences.

 

[Chaines]

And BTW, doing combat with a full enginered ship is NOT more risky than mining painite, actually minig/trading can be more dangerous in a shieldless t9. (Because interdictions + asteroid colisions)
In a 2 wing combat is THAT risky that people can do it AFK with the magical healing lasers... LOL.

[/QUOTE]
Well it's still more risky to do combat in a shieldless T9 than mining with it isn't it ?

 

[Oytis57]

Which is a shame, and a problem for FD, since they feel the only way is ever up. The biggest mistake they made was making money too easy to get.

Ship costs, fuel, repairs, ammo need to be made more expensive otherwise its rampant inflation with no consequences.

Exactly but their aim was only to increase the playerbase with cheap stuff and easier tasks,to lure in people that normally would not even bother to play a game like Ed,now we see the sad outcome.

 

[Ydiss]

I do think that the so called uptake from mining is rather exaggerated and blown out of proportions.
The numbers are pretty conclusive i'd say - after 18-20 months of unrestricted mining with full prices for painite, ltd and/r void opals, at carrier launch we had like 12000 carriers and 6 months later we have like 16400

For an estimated population of more than 200k regular players (probably towards 300k i'd say) - I would say that mining didnt produced as many multi-billionaires as some one would think

Mining, contrary to common belief, required a certain mindset and a decent level of proficiency and focus to achieve those 250 millions per hour, and it required the use of map-mapping to get those 500 millions per hour or more. And that limited the uptake even more.


Now mining is more or less dead
Except for a very small number of players that did mining not for the cash, but for the activity itself, no one will mine anymore

And combat, which is much more fun, will see a sudden increase and i will say that it may increase the general wealth of the regular population more than what mining did.
I mean, seriously - a g3-g4 Conda which is within reach of basically anyone - can mop the floor with all those stacked massacre missions and can make more billionaires than mining did.
Even because it is more enjoyable to do combat and complete those missions than to do mining and search for that station that might give you a half decent price.


Now, i'm not saying that it is wrong.
But it is not balance either. Far from it

We'll see.

Let's just say I'm not predicting many threads from new players that go along the lines of...

"I just started playing and built a ship to go massacre stack and..."

My friend was a literal example. Started the game, fell in love with the scope of it, saw how huge that scope was, googled, saw mining, did mining, now has a Fleet carrier.

I didn't direct them at all. I tried showing them combat on day one. They loved it but saw immediately how disparate they were from me and knew to get to where I am required a lot of credits. Mining was the solution with the least resistance.

They're a sample of one, of course. But I just can't see them doing what Jmanis describes. I didn't even do it until quite some time after it was a thing.

 

[BDelacroix]

I'm not convinced any game can be "balanced" to please everyone.
I'm equally convinced not to try to "balance" around extremes.