Are all your income balancing need satisfied until Odysee?

[Northpin]

There is a reason for this though. Back in about February/March 2019, around the time people had really got to grips with mining there was a bunch of threads basically all on the same topic of "The Anaconda sucks. It's the best ship in the game and I keep being blown up, this game is stupid".

What they'd done is picked up billions in void opals, bought their big ship and tried to fly it with none of the knowledge about flying or build choices that come from progressing from smaller ships. So the issue isn't players who are enjoying flying their big ships. If you like it, go for it. It's the people who have judged the game as being bad purely because they don't know how to fly a big ship when previously they'd never have been able to get that far in that short a time (previous credit exploits notwithstanding). Put them in a Krait mk2 and they started loving the game again.

The difference with mining back then and the previous credit exploits BTW is that the exploits were oddball situations that were patched put relatively quickly, whereas mining prices were everywhere.

So what?
Noobs can learn the ropes in a Conda pretty much like they do in an AspX.
And if a noob is quitting the game because he tried to speedrun it by following a guide on YT, then he left the game in frustration. So be it.
The sooner the better - for him and for the rest of us too..

My point is if someone gets a Conda in 12h since he got his Sidewinder, that does not affect the way i play the game nor my enjoyment.
And everyone should be walking their own paths. There is no rule that is saying that one has to start fighting in a Viper then to move to bigger and bigger ships.
My First Combat ship was a Krait Mk2. My Second one was a Cutter.
Then much later i discovered and enjoyed fighting in Eagles or DBS or Vulture.

So if someone is loving the game it does not matter if they die first in a Viper, a Krait or a Conda. IF they love the game they will stick to it.
If not, they will leave the game no matter if they're in a Conda or still in the starter Sidewinder.

 

[Ethaidan]

One gameplay loop that is still in need of a buff is Exploration...especially for unexplored planets and for "junk" icy planets. Really need some sort of payout for exploring icy planets. I've got a feeling that the latter will be addressed in Odyssey.

I don't know, I think I agree with ObiW. I made a ridiculous amount of credits on DW2 with my main account without too much effort, and my new alt made way too much for the nil effort/risk just jumping from the starter system to a new home less than 150ly away.

No, I am not. I just never understood why some on the Internet feel a need to mock and insult. Probably because they have no friends and believe they are macho that way... I don't know...

Aw bless, look who's being all judgemental and derogatory now? Did throwing that insult out there (quite clearly directed at whoever it was that used the bad word in this thread) make you feel macho, or compensate for your social life?

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

No I do not think the balancing should be considered done. 5 pages in this thread, this quickly, with alot of good ideas for other areas of the game that need balancing. FDev feel free to stop the nerfs or less credits, unless you are dropping the price of the FC at 5 Billion which was set when mining prices were sky high and had been that way for months if not years.

Also most newer players are not doing speed runs or getting the noobconda in 12 hours, that thread was fun to read through however. New players have small or medium ships, with minimal engineering and usually are not Elite-Elite-Elite or allied with the local factions, so the payouts are pretty crap in comparison to the numbers being discussed in alot of threads by people that have been playing the game for 3+ years with thousands of hours logged.

Also I will not be rewarding FDev by buying Odyssey until Horizons has been balanced for all the current game loops. Why reward bad behavior on their part?

I do agree that FDev is probably doing the rebalancing on purpose to try and boost sales of Odyssey:

I expect there will be new gold rushes in Odyssey, gated by the expansion, to get those sales up.

 

[CMDR D Noize]

We just had a 24 page thread where others made comments like this, and whenever I pushed back, I got accused of being the bad-faith debater. "Noobconda" is insulting and condescending, it just is. If you don't get why so many people find the Anaconda so compelling, well, fly what you like and all. But I assure you, it is VERY compelling to people.

Sticks & Stones mate, it's only a game so i wouldn't worry about what other people say or take it personally.
I see people ripping on the Mamba fairly often for various reasons but couldn't care less as it's my favourite ship.
I own 3 of them and they serve me pretty well.

I understand the compelling nature of the Conda, I worked my bum off to get one when i first started playing because it was the easiest Big ship you can get without superpower rank and I was of the opinion that "bigger is better" (pretty sure this is where the "n00bconda" jibes come from).
But it lost it's allure fairly quickly when I discovered it flies like a cow, has an awkward weapon layout and a PAINFULLY exposed Power Plant much like the Cutter does.

However if you're into the Big ships I'd suggest working towards a Corvette. It's got a better weapons layout & internals and its PP is tucked away nicely at the back which makes it much harder to pop.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I understand the compelling nature of the Conda, I worked my bum off to get one when i first started playing because it was the easiest Big ship you can get without superpower rank and I was of the opinion that "bigger is better" (pretty sure this is where the "n00bconda" jibes come from).
But it lost it's allure fairly quickly when I discovered it flies like a cow, has an awkward weapon layout and a PAINFULLY exposed Power Plant much like the Cutter does.

Same here - took me ages to work towards a Conda, but because it took so long I learned in the meantime that a stock ship is rather fragile and "bigger is better" in such a case hold true only from the enemy's point of view, i.e. you're a big but squishy target.

Players who have not come to that realisation yet and believe being in a big ship means safe are much more likely to cry foul when they see their ship destroyed in seconds, call the other side cheaters and threaten doing a Bazmeson because it's so unfair.

I remember this guy who was flying around in his SLF (mothership being a Conda) outside Jameson's Memorial in Open. I was scanning wakes in my Courier (fitted with 3 MC's at the time) minding my own business. He then rammed me not once but twice, so I instead targetted his mothership and brought that down to 15% hull in less than 20 seconds. I let him go because I'm not a monster. He probably felt hard done by, but who knows.

I've bought and sold probably half a dozen Annies throughout my main career, and once on my alt (and subsequent account reset). I much prefer the Corvette for combat, Cutter for Hauling, and smaller ships like DBX/AspX/Phantom for exploration, so struggled for a while to find a place for it in my fleet, but have settled now with my Conda being an all-purpose miner, which it is doing pretty well (even though the T10 could do it just as well, apart from jump range maybe, which could be addressed with an FSD booster).

 

[CMDR D Noize]

Same here - took me ages to work towards a Conda, but because it took so long I learned in the meantime that a stock ship is rather fragile and "bigger is better" in such a case hold true only from the enemy's point of view, i.e. you're a big but squishy target.

Players who have not come to that realisation yet and believe being in a big ship means safe are much more likely to cry foul when they see their ship destroyed in seconds, call the other side cheaters and threaten doing a Bazmeson because it's so unfair.

I remember this guy who was flying around in his SLF (mothership being a Conda) outside Jameson's Memorial in Open. I was scanning wakes in my Courier (fitted with 3 MC's at the time) minding my own business. He then rammed me not once but twice, so I instead targetted his mothership and brought that down to 15% hull in less than 20 seconds. I let him go because I'm not a monster. He probably felt hard done by, but who knows.

Yeah Condas & Cutters take about 30 seconds to pop the Power Plant in my Laser Mamba when I'm out hunting pirates.
It takes longer to chase down a Vulture than it does to kill either of those big ships.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Sticks & Stones mate, it's only a game so i wouldn't worry about what other people say or take it personally.
I see people ripping on the Mamba fairly often for various reasons but couldn't care less as it's my favourite ship.
I own 3 of them and they serve me pretty well.

I understand the compelling nature of the Conda, I worked my bum off to get one when i first started playing because it was the easiest Big ship you can get without superpower rank and I was of the opinion that "bigger is better" (pretty sure this is where the "n00bconda" jibes come from).
But it lost it's allure fairly quickly when I discovered it flies like a cow, has an awkward weapon layout and a PAINFULLY exposed Power Plant much like the Cutter does.

However if you're into the Big ships I'd suggest working towards a Corvette. It's got a better weapons layout & internals and its PP is tucked away nicely at the back which makes it much harder to pop.

Thanks mate!

I didn't take it personally per say but it seems to be just a negative stigma they recklessly apply to anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Obi apparently took it super personal that I had to remind some people this was "just a game" a few times last night. But to me that's a perfectly reasonable rebuttal to someone who's asserting that anyone who doesn't agree with them, is a "spoiled noob who wants everything handed to them". Which is often suggested here. Hens my objection to the "noobconda" thing.

Back to big ships, oh yeah, you can best believe I have my eye on a Corvette. Rep all done. But I've decided to refrain from the temptation until I can fully G5 the whole thing and top her off with some Prismatic shields. See? Progression IS a thing. It just takes a little self control!

I just fail to see how grinding for fictional space credits makes anything more enjoyable. It's especially interesting that nobody who actually needs things are the ones calling for economic changes. It only seems to be those who admittedly have everything they want, and won't actually be impacted negatively from their own suggestions.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

There is no reason to insult anyone regardless of anything... You simply not right.


And how is that affecting anyone apart from player who made A CHOICE. Why do you think that you are in the position to call anyone choice bad?? I still do not get why so many people here feels entitled to judge the choices of other players and explain to them what is right and what is wrong?? Isn't ED all about personal narrative?? What is wrong for you could be perfectly OK for others...

So what?
Noobs can learn the ropes in a Conda pretty much like they do in an AspX.
And if a noob is quitting the game because he tried to speedrun it by following a guide on YT, then he left the game in frustration. So be it.
The sooner the better - for him and for the rest of us too..

My point is if someone gets a Conda in 12h since he got his Sidewinder, that does not affect the way i play the game nor my enjoyment.
And everyone should be walking their own paths. There is no rule that is saying that one has to start fighting in a Viper then to move to bigger and bigger ships.
My First Combat ship was a Krait Mk2. My Second one was a Cutter.
Then much later i discovered and enjoyed fighting in Eagles or DBS or Vulture.

So if someone is loving the game it does not matter if they die first in a Viper, a Krait or a Conda. IF they love the game they will stick to it.
If not, they will leave the game no matter if they're in a Conda or still in the starter Sidewinder.

Read my post properly before replying please.

 

[lemon407]

a) Do you think the previous number changes feel good and if not what would you change?
b) Are there any aspects of the game where the monetary rewards could use some tweaking?

A) For the most part most of the ways money is made is fine in game. except for....

B) combat still needs to give more money, this can very easily be fixed it they simply allowed for the stacking of massacre missions, and increasing the reward over all for killing. The most difficult activity in the game should be rewarding FAR more then it currently is, with Thargoid hunting woefully under paying. IIRC at best, combat ratting can get you around like 20~35 mill an hour which is just horrible, when you consider how much you can make in the robigo run, which can net easy over 20m a single run, in a 1 jump anaconda.

 

[CMDR D Noize]

I just fail to see how grinding for fictional space credits makes anything more enjoyable. It's especially interesting that nobody who actually needs things are the ones calling for economic changes. It only seems to be those who admittedly have everything they want, and won't actually be impacted negatively from their own suggestions.

In all fairness the credit rebalance was desperately needed in a lot of areas.

Last summer you could literally earn a billion credits a day mining Low Temperature Diamonds and Painite, particularly after FDev gave Sub Surface Deposits a big boost.
It was getting completely ridiculous and killed any sense of earning your credits. I gave it a crack myself just to see what the fuss was all about and after 2 days had enough cash to keep my Carrier going for about 3 years. I've not gone back to mining for months since.

The mining nerf just before Christmas was pretty necessary given the minimal effort and risk involved and the ludicrous payouts it was giving.
The Anti Xeno buff was well overdue as it can be pretty damn tough & expensive to get in to.
The Bounty/Combat buff was also well overdue, but a lot of people (myself included and I'm an avid Bounty Hunter), think they've gone a little overboard with it. It's almost at the point mining was last year if you stack Massacre missions.

It's a fine line between risk/reward and Fdev are still working out the kinks.

 

[EWanderer]

A) For the most part most of the ways money is made is fine in game. except for....

B) combat still needs to give more money, this can very easily be fixed it they simply allowed for the stacking of massacre missions, and increasing the reward over all for killing. The most difficult activity in the game should be rewarding FAR more then it currently is, with Thargoid hunting woefully under paying. IIRC at best, combat ratting can get you around like 20~35 mill an hour which is just horrible, when you consider how much you can make in the robigo run, which can net easy over 20m a single run, in a 1 jump anaconda.

finally something constructive again. and here i was that ship had sailed. I agree combat still pays not as much as mining. so yeah stacking and further payout boust should maybe be considered.

 

[lemon407]

The mining nerf just before Christmas was pretty necessary given the minimal effort and risk involved and the ludicrous payouts it was giving.

This, it was so dumb how good it was, i thought the robigo run was a good money earner, then i bought a type 9 and thought LOL lets see if this is really as broken as it said it was.
in 2 trips, LITERALLY 2 i made a billion credits in a single afternoon, AFTER i already made enough to buy and fully a fit and engineer a anaconda. As much as i miss making stupid amounts of money, i agree it was busted so bad.

The Anti Xeno buff was well overdue as it can be pretty damn tough & expensive to get in to.

Even then its hardly worth it IMO, you gotta go WAY outta your way to grind them, and have all the right moduels there as well, so the cost to reward factor imo is not worth it considering you also need to have spcilized armor just to not get dumped on. If Fdev made it so that you could reasonabbly engage thargoids with normal weapons and not have it tuned to AX only weapons, i would say its worth it, but the fact you need to kit your self for thargoid fighting, vs normal fighting and the two builds really not careying over well, Its not worth it IMO

The Bounty/Combat buff was also well overdue, but a lot of people (myself included and I'm an avid Bounty Hunter), think they've gone a little overboard with it. It's almost at the point mining was last year if you stack Massacre missions.

Ok i might be out of the loop on this since i took a long break, but, can we stack massacare missions again now? Can i load up on like 4 or 5 kill x number of y faction pirates and killing 1 will count as one for every single mission? Because if so hot baby Jesus im excited.

 

[CMDR D Noize]

Even then its hardly worth it IMO, you gotta go WAY outta your way to grind them, and have all the right moduels there as well, so the cost to reward factor imo is not worth it considering you also need to have spcilized armor just to not get dumped on. If Fdev made it so that you could reasonabbly engage thargoids with normal weapons and not have it tuned to AX only weapons, i would say its worth it, but the fact you need to kit your self for thargoid fighting, vs normal fighting and the two builds really not careying over well, Its not worth it IMO

AX is a bit tricky to get into, especially unlocking all the Guardian Tech, but it's a lot of fun once you've done it. It is designed for the most obsessive of combat pilots though.
I can Solo a Cyclops pretty well but anything above that is beyond my skill level at the moment, but it's totally satisfying when you hear it's death rattle right before it pops

Ok i might be out of the loop on this since i took a long break, but, can we stack massacare missions again now? Can i load up on like 4 or 5 kill x number of y faction pirates and killing 1 will count as one for every single mission? Because if so hot baby Jesus im excited.

Yeah Massacre stacking is still a thing but now with much better payouts. You just need to find an Anarchy system within 10ly (i think) of a populated system with several factions. Grab one mission from each faction that targets the same pirates and each kill should count towards all missions.
Like i said, with the recent Bounty buff its approaching the same level of payouts s the mining boom last year.
TBH i don't really bother too much trying to stack them as the increased payouts are decent enough as they are.

 

[lemon407]

AX is a bit tricky to get into, especially unlocking all the Guardian Tech, but it's a lot of fun once you've done it. It is designed for the most obsessive of combat pilots though.
I can Solo a Cyclops pretty well but anything above that is beyond my skill level at the moment, but it's totally satisfying when you hear it's death rattle right before it pops



Yeah Massacre stacking is still a thing but now with much better payouts. You just need to find an Anarchy system within 10ly (i think) of a populated system with several factions. Grab one mission from each faction that targets the same pirates and each kill should count towards all missions.
Like i said, with the recent Bounty buff its approaching the same level of payouts s the mining boom last year.
TBH i don't really bother too much trying to stack them as the increased payouts are decent enough as they are.

Welp, guess its time to break out the ol conda and head out. Got a good system on hand?

 

[BL1P]

Yeah, from my POV I don't want to do something - look at the reward and see it was basically zero - which is the case for many things like S&R USS, m/s scenarios, smuggling etc. I don't need hundreds of millions every hour, but 20k for rescuing an NPC by refuelling them ...

(Though really for S&R scenarios then adding mat rewards onto them would make more sense - if the ships being rescued dropped high level encoded mats that would be better, but then fdev would also need to stop them being farmable, as some players can't control themselves.)

For me that last line seems to be the problem on almost everything related to balance.
Too many things to list really, but they need to sort out the core gameplay then fix rewards.
As we have seen with the combat rewards. Insta killing thargoids creates billions in rewards with no risk. stacking massacres so one kill counts as many mission kills messes with the balance intended. Laser mined asteroids respawning causes mapped mining which messes with the balance intended, as seen with LTDs and the infinite supply in Borans triple overlay.
Removing the cause of those types of things would have helped balance much more than lowering or increasing the payouts.
Though yes its more work.

 

[skananote]

Hold on, this log out/log in thing is not considered by FDev as any sort of exploit. Why would that need fixing. There are timers set for HGEs so can't do it again and again. How would farming look like in Dav's Hope?? I run one round and what, take off, leave the system and land back again?? What about Jameson's crash site or Thargoid crash site?? How would that look like if FDev would remove relog thing?? Sound like the only way of getting mats would be combat. What about non-combat players??

 

[Sublime]

The ED universe has abolished all crime by making it an utterly pointless endeavour for the purposes of making money. You can get richer more easily by pretty much doing anything else.

 

[CMDR D Noize]

Hold on, this log out/log in thing is not considered by FDev as any sort of exploit. Why would that need fixing. There are timers set for HGEs so can't do it again and again. How would farming look like in Dav's Hope?? I run one round and what, take off, leave the system and land back again?? What about Jameson's crash site or Thargoid crash site?? How would that look like if FDev would remove relog thing?? Sound like the only way of getting mats would be combat. What about non-combat players??

Regardless of the re-log thing, you can earn high level Encoded & Manufactured mats from missions.
If you could get Raws as well then there wouldn't be much need to log farm stuff, but as far as I know you can't get Raws from missions which is the only thing I ever use log farming for personally.

 

[skananote]

Regardless of the re-log thing, you can earn high level Encoded & Manufactured mats from missions.
If you could get Raws as well then there wouldn't be much need to log farm stuff, but as far as I know you can't get Raws from missions which is the only thing I ever use log farming for personally.

You are correct about raws. I rather do Dav's Hope from time to time. Mission rewards are fine but recently I've noticed that missions with good mats/payments expect you to fly to outpost/stations 30-420kLs from the arrival point. This is not game play. I rather do nice rounds in my SRV,...

 

[CMDR D Noize]

I've bought and sold probably half a dozen Annies throughout my main career, and once on my alt (and subsequent account reset). I much prefer the Corvette for combat, Cutter for Hauling, and smaller ships like DBX/AspX/Phantom for exploration, so struggled for a while to find a place for it in my fleet, but have settled now with my Conda being an all-purpose miner, which it is doing pretty well (even though the T10 could do it just as well, apart from jump range maybe, which could be addressed with an FSD booster).

Yeah I re-fit my Conda as a mining ship (renamed it Red Dwarf too ). All the hardpoints work pretty well for packing all the mining tools with a few left over for defence and it's good jump range really helps to counteract a full cargo hold.

I'm a bit of a weirdo and use a Challenger as an Explorer/Landfall ship (painted Lime Green and named Starbug you sensing a theme yet).
I find its excellent vertical thrusters and fairly small footprint really help with high gravity planets and finding a good spot to land.