Slave Carriers Update

[VR StarLightPL]

If there are any "slavers" reading this thread, and you intend to continue - why not add an injury to the insult, and encourage people to sell their current ship and reimburse the cost difference to a 2Ly Krait? That way they will really be back in the freewinder with a nice loss and literally back at start? Sounds fitting to what a slaver would do?

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Just sayin'
If you want to learn .... do it!

Yeah but the game is cruel enough, so I couldn't go sleep tonight knowing that we let you astray... store any engineered modules first because you will lose them alongside the ship. If you're in a throwaway ship with no engineering - by all means, crash into the carrier and take the freewinder option. And third option - try to contact owner of the carrier ;-)

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I asked a question. I'll repeat it. Do you think it is reasonable to agree that someone capable of buying, downloading, installing and configuring, launching and playing a computer game can also be considered to have the basic competence to ask a question using freely accessible online sources about the same game, which are accessed via the same device that they have already demonstrated greater technical competence in using just by getting the game to run?

To remove any concerns about obfuscation here, I'm looking for a yes or no answer and if it's really a 'no' then I'm afraid you're going to have to explain it to my tiny brain. If it's a 'yes' however, this 'helpless noobs' line of argument stands revealed for the utter tosh that it is.

You aren't going to get a yes or a no. This isn't my first forum, you know? By forcing me to answer your question, either way, you win because I'm then arguing based on your own premise. Which I believe to be false. So nope, not playing that game with you.

Your question doesn't even make sense anyway because you are conflating technical computer skills i.e. mechanical competence, with the emotional maturity and life-experience necessary to spot a very well-crafted and intentional scam.

So I throw out your question on it's merits altogether. I get it, you don't care about the victims because they were all too dumb and stupid to care about. So that makes what the guy did okay or something?

I do not think he did anything wrong though, within the context of playing a computer game

Yes I believe you've made that clear. You don't think this guy did wrong. You don't think it's a big deal trying to disrupt and troll an event for a player dying of cancer. NOTHING is off the table to you, roger. Read you loud and clear on that score...

 

[LeoBartlet]

You aren't going to get a yes or a no. This isn't my first forum, you know? By forcing me to answer your question, either way, you win because I'm then arguing based on your own premise. Which I believe to be false. So nope, not playing that game with you.

Your question doesn't even make sense anyway because you are conflating technical computer skills i.e. mechanical competence, with the emotional maturity and life-experience necessary to spot a very well-crafted and intentional scam.

So I throw out your question on it's merits altogether. I get it, you don't care about the victims because they were all too dumb and stupid to care about. So that makes what the guy did okay or something?



Yes I believe you've made that clear. You don't think this guy did wrong. You don't think it's a big deal trying to disrupt and troll an event for a player dying of cancer. NOTHING is off the table to you, roger. Read you loud and clear on that score...

I won't reply to your comments because Red is far more articulate than i'll ever be and is more than capable of learning you but I seriously have to ask where you get the idea that it was a well crafted scam?

It was quite literally rumbled by a 10yo girl.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

You don't think this guy did wrong. You don't think it's a big deal trying to disrupt and troll an event for a player dying of cancer.

I don't think they're the same situation, and it's classic polygon pitchfork rallying. So far, noone is dying of cancer here, there's no real harm done, and the whole thing is a roleplay opportunity in the sterile galaxy. But, as likes their galaxy sterile and devoid of such things, banhammer was swung.

Cutthroat galaxy my derrière... Blaze your own trail, in solo under ridiculous C&P... Living breathing galaxy where cheating is okay but actually using the game mechanisms isn't... A dystopia, yes. Just not as advertised.

 

[Harley Quinn]

While I disagree with what they did, we have a game with slavery and imperial slavery within it.

While that is fine with NPCs, it's not for players.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So I throw out your question on it's merits altogether. I get it, you don't care about the victims because they were all too dumb and stupid to care about. So that makes what the guy did okay or something?

First off, it's a game. A leisure activity. There are no victims here. Did they get scammed? Taken advantage of? So on and so forth?

Sure.

In the context of a game, so quit clutching your pearls and put on your thinking cap. Anders' point is a valid one, and your refusal to answer it is silly.

Yes I believe you've made that clear. You don't think this guy did wrong. You don't think it's a big deal trying to disrupt and troll an event for a player dying of cancer. NOTHING is off the table to you, roger. Read you loud and clear on that score...

When he tells people to drink bleach in response, he can go pound it as far as I'm concerned.

So some people tried to spoil his fun in game. In case you forgot, it created some pretty amazing gameplay with folks coming to the rescue. Just like this one.

Quit trying to fix people. We don't need it.

 

[BirdWisdom]

Mainly commentary on The Pilot's vid I guess:

Stick and Rudder: Leader of Elite Dangerous ‘slavery’ racket espouses a ‘cult-like’ guild full of ‘chaos and evil’ | Massively Overpowered

I listened to the interview and I thought, that guy has become Shanghaiing for real. He must missing a fuel scoop with a bad frame shift drive ,and even if he self destruct he spawns back to FC.

I also heard this news from ObsidianAnt.

 

[JonLuis69]

While I disagree with what they did, we have a game with slavery and imperial slavery within it.

While that is fine with NPCs, it's not for players.

What if some players actually want to be slaves?

How far does this go?

I mean I would shake my head but ...

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

First off, it's a game. A leisure activity. There are no victims here. Did they get scammed? Taken advantage of? So on and so forth?

Sure.

In the context of a game, so quit clutching your pearls and put on your thinking cap. Anders' point is a valid one, and your refusal to answer it is silly.

But....you just said there WERE victims lol.

No, his point wasn't valid. It's a really dumb hot-take to smear the other side as being entirely mentally incompetent, thus it's all fair game. Only a moron would fall for that "yes or no" forum crap, and I'm not a moron.

This is a game, yes. One populated by paying customers, and if those customers are allowed to be abused to a point, they will no longer be paying customers and the game will suffer. So I'll acknowledge this is "just a game" when you acknowledge slaver scum like this is bad for business, thus bad for all of us in the long run.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I don't think they're the same situation, and it's classic polygon pitchfork rallying. So far, noone is dying of cancer here, there's no real harm done, and the whole thing is a roleplay opportunity in the sterile galaxy. But, as likes their galaxy sterile and devoid of such things, banhammer was swung.

Cutthroat galaxy my derrière... Blaze your own trail, in solo under ridiculous C&P... Living breathing galaxy where cheating is okay but actually using the game mechanisms isn't... A dystopia, yes. Just not as advertised.

I'd save your time with this one he's too busy fighting strawmen created in his own head. He's already been told the real story of the DoveEnigma saga and has chosen to regurgitate the Polygon/Kotaku version because it offers him the opportunity to flaunt his apparent moral superiority.

I've know Red Anders since 2012 and nothing this melt says about his character chimes with the man I know. He'd be the first to chime in with condemnation towards any form of misconduct like trolling a cancer patient. He didn't because the events that took place are far different from those Starshot is trying to portray.

Anyway he doesn't need me to defend him and if he's inclined at some point he'll respond.

When it looks like a troll....

 

[Red Anders]

You aren't going to get a yes or a no. This isn't my first forum, you know? By forcing me to answer your question, either way, you win because I'm then arguing based on your own premise. Which I believe to be false. So nope, not playing that game with you

I'm not trying to play a game, I'm trying to understand your nonsensical argument that it's not reasonable for someone to look up some information, which is the entire basis on which you are treating them as a powerless victim of circumstance.

It's not my first rodeo either mate, certainly not sufficiently early in my rodeo career that I don't recognise your refusal for what it is and it's not what you just suggested. It's also not sufficiently early in it for me to respond to the quite pathetic misrepresentation in your final line but well done, you have finally identified yourself as someone that I have no further interest in engaging with given the degree of it. Like the Sith, you seem to only deal in absolutes. Feel free to make your usual wide-eyed 'Me? What? What did I do' post, I won't be bothering reading it.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I've know Red Anders since 2012 and nothing this melt says about his character chimes with the man I know.

Good thing that I've said nothing, zilch, about his character then. While he, on the other hand, has made quite a few claims of mine.

But hey, you've know him longer than me so why should I bother giving an opinion on something that happened in the game. How dare me lol

He's already been told the real story of the DoveEnigma saga and has chosen to regurgitate the Polygon/Kotaku

Well this is just a flat out falsehood. Anders certainly can't be trusted to give a "real" account on things like this, because he's biased on these cases clearly. He thinks slavery in the game is cool, so OF COURSE attempting to mess with a megaship is fair game.

The fact is, players did attempt to disrupt an event for a noble cause. Or in Anders own words "troll" it. You can couch it how you want, but it became a huge controversy at the time and even FDEV had to step in and issue statements. Anders position that because nothing was ACTUALLY disrupted or lost, so nothing matters, is not "the real story" of this event at all. Period. I would submit it's as biased as a take on that article you and he falsely claim has twisted everyone's impression of the event.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

But....you just said there WERE victims lol.

Here's every post I've made in this thread. Please read them again and you'll see I didn't say that.

Noob ganking in Eravate seems like such a very long time ago, doesn't it?

To be young again.

What if deception is part of the game?

I'd like to point out Braben doesn't agree with you. What with causing trouble for other people in Elite being core to the experience.

A good poker face in the context of a card game.

Scummy, or not?

Ignorance doesn't excuse new players.

Fact is there was creative use of game mechanics. Carebears gonna cry. They got shutdown.

Real shame, as per usual.

I'm a riot.

I already have the best one.

Considering how thin the proof of said wrongdoing can be these days, that's troubling.

lmao

I missed you folk.

No, his point wasn't valid. It's a really dumb hot-take to smear the other side as being entirely mentally incompetent, thus it's all fair game. Only a moron would fall for that "yes or no" forum crap, and I'm not a moron.

This is a game, yes. One populated by paying customers, and if those customers are allowed to be abused to a point, they will no longer be paying customers and the game will suffer. So I'll acknowledge this is "just a game" when you acknowledge slaver scum like this is bad for business, thus bad for all of us in the long run.

What's bad for business is campaigning to make Elite as dull as possible.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Good thing that I've said nothing, zilch, about his character then. While he, on the other hand, has made quite a few claims of mine.

Slave Carriers Update

If there are any "slavers" reading this thread, and you intend to continue - why not add an injury to the insult, and encourage people to sell their current ship and reimburse the cost difference to a 2Ly Krait? That way they will really be back in the freewinder with a nice loss and literally...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Read the last sentence of your post and tell me again you said nothing about his character.

Anyway like Red im done speaking at you and if it looks like im being dismissive its because I am.

Toodles.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I'm not trying to play a game, I'm trying to understand your nonsensical argument that it's not reasonable for someone to look up some information, which is the entire basis on which you are treating them as a powerless victim of circumstance.

It's not my first rodeo either mate, certainly not sufficiently early in my rodeo career that I don't recognise your refusal for what it is and it's not what you just suggested. It's also not sufficiently early in it for me to respond to the quite pathetic misrepresentation in your final line but well done, you have finally identified yourself as someone that I have no further interest in engaging with given the degree of it. Like the Sith, you seem to only deal in absolutes. Feel free to make your usual wide-eyed 'Me? What? What did I do' post, I won't be bothering reading it.

OH no, the guy who supports slavery and abusing other players won't be talking to me anymore. I'm like, legit crushed.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Slave Carriers Update

If there are any "slavers" reading this thread, and you intend to continue - why not add an injury to the insult, and encourage people to sell their current ship and reimburse the cost difference to a 2Ly Krait? That way they will really be back in the freewinder with a nice loss and literally...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Read the last sentence of your post and tell me again you said nothing about his character.

Anyway like Red im done speaking at you and if it looks like im being dismissive its because I am.

Toodles.

You mean this???

Yes I believe you've made that clear. You don't think this guy did wrong. You don't think it's a big deal trying to disrupt and troll an event for a player dying of cancer. NOTHING is off the table to you, roger. Read you loud and clear on that score...

He literally said, several times, these things don't matter to him because "they happened in a game". He's said that over and over. If you are saying the above statement is meant to be an insult to his character, you are absolutely manufacturing outrage plain and simple.

I get he's your friend but come on, this is silly now.

 

[Red Anders]

OH no, the guy who supports slavery and abusing other players won't be talking to me anymore. I'm like, legit crushed.

I can tell by the fact you took the trouble to respond. Don't worry, we'll always have Paris in the springtime. Like I said to you back at the start of the conversation I have a five year posting history on here from which anybody can make up their own mind, frankly I doubt you're going to form many people's opinions for them. But carry on since it obviously means so much to you, likle I said I'm leaving this because frankly I think the mods have enough work to do already right now.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I can tell by the fact you took the trouble to respond. Don't worry, we'll always have Paris in the springtime.

But...you took the time to do the whole "I'm posting to tell you I'm not posting to you anymore" trope first.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I asked a question. I'll repeat it. Do you think it is reasonable to agree that someone capable of buying, downloading, installing and configuring, launching and playing a computer game can also be considered to have the basic competence to ask a question using freely accessible online sources about the same game, which are accessed via the same device that they have already demonstrated greater technical competence in using just by getting the game to run?

To remove any concerns about obfuscation here, I'm looking for a yes or no answer and if it's really a 'no' then I'm afraid you're going to have to explain it to my tiny brain. If it's a 'yes' however, this 'helpless noobs' line of argument stands revealed for the utter tosh that it is.

That was where the relevance of modern slavery comes into the equation - you're talking as if these people were being genuinely oppressed and denied information in real life, like they were being held by some gangmaster who has stolen their passports and was keeping them locked up in a shed. You're actually talking about some people who were sat in their homes using their own computers, with access to every source of information known to man at the touch of their fingers. How exactly do you feel those people were in any way helpless or 'deprived' of information, other than by one source which they could have bypassed completely? Oh and their own lack of absolutely minimium effort to seek it out obviously. It is absurd. Utterly absurd.

If I PM'd you tomorrow that you have to give all of your money to me would you say 'well seems a bit harsh but hey them's the rules' and get your chequebook out, or would you check elsewhere to see if I was being entirely honest with you? If it's the former by the way, let me know and I'll send you some paypal details.

Finally, you seem to be taking what I've written about this guy's actions as thinking he's a prince amongst men or something. I don't think that and I've never said it. I do not think he did anything wrong though, within the context of playing a computer game. As for the racism, I haven't seen any actual evidence of that - I've seen the now redacted Polygon accusation and I've seen loads of other people make vague comments about how terrible it is if true (which I agree with) but I've seen ball-all evidence that it actually is true, which is why I have nothing to say about it.

I'll tell you what aspect of this I do have an issue with and not for the first time with FDev actually - the fact that their EULA tends to get clarified to include things after the fact, which makes it pretty difficult for someone to mount a defence of the thing that there was no clarity on being against the rules specifically at the time they did it.

Look up the pilot on youtube and check out the hour long interview with the slaver. Its far worse than you're imagining, not even close to harmless bad guy roleplay. At least one point related to what you've said is they consciously kicked people out when they were catching on and prevented the "dumb slaves" from getting fully educated on the situation. It possibly even worse depending on how your game morals are configured.

Its a painful listen because the pilot is constantly speaking like your girlfriend whos busted you for doing something wrong, but i think necessary for the elite game topic.