HP Reverb G2 impressions in Elite Dangerous

[Gortron]

I also suspect a software problem. My Win10 installation is also only for gaming, my daily driver is a Manjaro installation on a second nvme (dual boot). Apart from the game platforms (Steam, Origin, Epic Store), nothing happens on the side. Switching back from the beta versions also makes no difference. Windows and drivers are up to date (stable)

Here is a screenshot of my frametimes a few km from the asteroid field.
View attachment 207616
I think it looks a lot like your graph. maybe you would have to deal with the same problem if you weren't that far out ;-)
a test of you in an environment with more action (surface / asteroids) might look as bad as my first graph ... that would calm me down a bit

o7

I get plenty of CPU late start with my 8700K and RTX 3090 with 3000MHZ RAM. Tried upgrading the RAM to 3400MHZ for something else but it doesn’t make any difference to late start.

A faster CPU might fix it but I think it’s a code problem rather than hardware.

 

[VR - wickfut]

You turned off all windows background apps?

Settings - Privacy - background apps

 

[GrandAdmiralThrawn]

Onno, here's my results from within a planetary ring system. First, so you can see what exact place I was in, two screenshots:


(Click to enlarge)

The exact resolution was 6136×3000, 188% according to SteamVR. Ingame render scale was at 1.0. As said, the rest was turned to max, including shadows. Same RX 6900 XT @ 1100mV(GPU) with +15% PT, same R5 5600X. That's on PCIe 3.0 (Because Biostar removed my PCIe 4.0 with the Zen 3 UEFI upate, meh) and without SAM.

What I did was rotate my ship (pitch) for about 30-40 seconds while always looking directly at the ring, then I clicked "Pause" to stop the recording of frametime data:

So yup, there's quite a bit of red, reprojection turned off. Surprisingly, the experience was pretty decent though, there were just a few jittery moments, which probably coincided with those small spikes or groups of spikes shown in the graph.

Honestly much better than I expected.

 

[Onno]

At 90hz with 100% SteamVR render target its a problem for any rig. Your hardware is not the issue. I discuss it here.

3090 is the new VR KING

Overall, the 3080 and 3090 are faster at 4k than the new Radeons, and significantly faster where there is heavy use of hardware raytracing. However, I would not be surprised if AMD's parts actually turn out to be faster in Elite: Dangerous at 4k and in VR, than their direct NVIDIA competitors...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look at the thread. (Hope AMD owners are also welcome )
I haven't had time to read the thread yet, what is your frametime graph like? In the meantime I stumbled upon this threads (here and here), there the problem with the latestart offset is also discussed (without a solution so far). Perhaps the CPU problem only becomes apparent with the new generation of graphics cards, as the GPU limit was always reached before.

I get plenty of CPU late start with my 8700K and RTX 3090 with 3000MHZ RAM. Tried upgrading the RAM to 3400MHZ for something else but it doesn’t make any difference to late start.

A faster CPU might fix it but I think it’s a code problem rather than hardware.

Interesting note, I'm actually currently looking at the (not buyable) 5000s, especially the 5900x. But it is currently too much work for me to try (conversion), even if I could send the CPU back - because the 3900x is of course completely sufficient for me in all other areas

You turned off all windows background apps?

Settings - Privacy - background apps

As a Linuxer, this dialog was alien to me, I try it out. Thank you! ;-)

Onno, here's my results from within a planetary ring system. First, so you can see what exact place I was in, two screenshots:

View attachment 207727 View attachment 207726
(Click to enlarge)

The exact resolution was 6136×3000, 188% according to SteamVR. Ingame render scale was at 1.0. As said, the rest was turned to max, including shadows. Same RX 6900 XT @ 1100mV(GPU) with +15% PT, same R5 5600X. That's on PCIe 3.0 (Because Biostar removed my PCIe 4.0 with the Zen 3 UEFI upate, meh) and without SAM.

What I did was rotate my ship (pitch) for about 30-40 seconds while always looking directly at the ring, then I clicked "Pause" to stop the recording of frametime data:

View attachment 207728

So yup, there's quite a bit of red, reprojection turned off. Surprisingly, the experience was pretty decent though, there were just a few jittery moments, which probably coincided with those small spikes or groups of spikes shown in the graph.

Honestly much better than I expected.

Thanks again! I completely agree with you. As we can see, your CPU frame time got a little out of hand (5ms over) and still you have no problems with your CPU limit. Very exciting, maybe the increased workload in my first post is also related to the NPCs. When there is a lot of traffic, I notice it in the frame times. That needs to be analyzed

 

[AirBear]

I just ordered a Alienware R11 desktop with i9 and 3090GPU. Should have it in 10-14 days. I've got the Reverb G2 and have been running it with a 4.5 yr old i7-6700K@4.00GHz and a 2080 stock GPU. I've tried tweaking the settings in WMR, SteamVR and the in game settings based on what some users have posted in the VR forum here and it looks really good but is erratic at times. I'll get very low framerates, especially inside stations where there's a lot to render. Asteroid mining has been fine 95% of the time. Sometimes it'll slow down but I think it's background stuff running because they're no rhyme or reason as to why it should slow down. I finally changed all the settings back to auto and did the ingame settings to "VR Medium". No slowdowns since I did that earlier today.

Looking forward to the new rig arriving and I can try ramping up the settings again. I'll be looking for suggestions on settings with the new rig from other players with a 3090, or I could just try the auto settings and see what happens.

 

[Loeko]

Been reading here and elsewhere that some feel a G2 won't run well on anything less than a 2080.

I have a 1080ti and I7-8700k and the G2 runs just fine. I'm consistently seeing 80+ fps average.

I've had my G2 for just over a month and it's stunning! Prior to the G2 I've owned an HTC Vive, then a Pimax5k+. I've also had access to a Index and an Oculus quest.

It's by far the best visual experience of the bunch. I can't recommend it enough.

 

[Onno]

Been reading here and elsewhere that some feel a G2 won't run well on anything less than a 2080.

I have a 1080ti and I7-8700k and the G2 runs just fine. I'm consistently seeing 80+ fps average.

I've had my G2 for just over a month and it's stunning! Prior to the G2 I've owned an HTC Vive, then a Pimax5k+. I've also had access to a Index and an Oculus quest.

It's by far the best visual experience of the bunch. I can't recommend it enough.

Hi, what settings? The resolution in particular plays an essential role. My personal claim is to keep the 90fps predominantly and the few drops (<5%) get by without reprojection. Especially in the interesting moments (fight etc.), but that is of course the most difficult. Of course that's my personal goal, I've seen people play with reprojection over 90% of the time. Then you can also set your goal to 45fps, since no more images are actually needed.

 

[AirBear]

My Squadron CO has a Valve Index and was trying to talk me into buying that but after watching numerous YouTube reviews I went for the G2 when it suddenly showed available on HP's website. He thought the better FOV was worth the reduction in pixels. Since you've seen both what do you think?

Been reading here and elsewhere that some feel a G2 won't run well on anything less than a 2080.

I have a 1080ti and I7-8700k and the G2 runs just fine. I'm consistently seeing 80+ fps average.

I've had my G2 for just over a month and it's stunning! Prior to the G2 I've owned an HTC Vive, then a Pimax5k+. I've also had access to a Index and an Oculus quest.

It's by far the best visual experience of the bunch. I can't recommend it enough.

 

[Loeko]

My Squadron CO has a Valve Index and was trying to talk me into buying that but after watching numerous YouTube reviews I went for the G2 when it suddenly showed available on HP's website. He thought the better FOV was worth the reduction in pixels. Since you've seen both what do you think?

For Elite: Dangerous I'd go with the G2. The Index is better if you plan on trying games which rely more on the controllers. Also, I printed a thinner faceplate which brings the field of view closer to that of the Index. However, I used the G2 for weeks without the thinner faceplate and barely noticed the reduced FOV, even coming from a Pimax. The visuals are that good.

I have a 3d printer so I thought I'd give it a go after seeing some positive reviews. It improves the FOV a bit, but it's not necessary.

It's just my opinion, but I'm blown away by the G2s visuals.

 

[AirBear]

For Elite: Dangerous I'd go with the G2. The Index is better if you plan on trying games which rely more on the controllers. Also, I printed a thinner faceplate which brings the field of view closer to that of the Index. However, I used the G2 for weeks without the thinner faceplate and barely noticed the reduced FOV, even coming from a Pimax. The visuals are that good.

I have a 3d printer so I thought I'd give it a go after seeing some positive reviews. It improves the FOV a bit, but it's not necessary.

It's just my opinion, but I'm blown away by the G2s visuals.

I've got the Odyssey faceplates ordered, already have the Velcro I'll need to attach them to the G2. Hopefully they'll arrive before my AlienWare R11 i9 + 3090 does.

 

[Loeko]

I've got the Odyssey faceplates ordered, already have the Velcro I'll need to attach them to the G2. Hopefully they'll arrive before my AlienWare R11 i9 + 3090 does.

I'm envious!

I've been trying to buy a 3090 but they never seem to be in stock!

G2 is amazing with my 1080. Can't wait to try it with a 3090!

 

[AirBear]

I had been trying to buy a 3080 or 3090, I'm on several notification list at Newegg and B&H photo. But when I found my purchase info for my current rig and saw that it was June 2016, combined with the fact I'm getting an unusually large tax refund this year I decided just to get a new rig. I'd already upgraded the Video Card from the original 1070 to a 2080 and I wasn't even sure a 3090 would work with the old system.
The only places I found with 3090 based systems ready to ship was Newegg and Dell Alienware. The Newegg system at $3299 was a lot cheaper than the Dell. My Squadron CO said to call Dell, so I did and sure enough after I sent them the link to the Newegg system they came down on the price to within $100. The only reservation I have with the Alienware R11 is the 3090 card they use is custom designed to fit in their smaller case so I may not be able to upgrade the Video card a few years down the road unless I get one that's designed for the R11. Worst case I could probably get away with removing the motherboard and installing in a larger case.

I'm envious!

I've been trying to buy a 3090 but they never seem to be in stock!

G2 is amazing with my 1080. Can't wait to try it with a 3090!

 

[VR StarLightPL]

In the end, HP couldn't fix it, and I opted for the refund rather than exchange. I'll be going back to the CV1 at 150% supersampling, and probably wait for some form of xLED gen 3 headset.

I'd suggest at least something of this generation - a Quest 2 or Valve Index if money is no problem. Each has its strenghts and weaknesses though.

EDIT: didn't see you have the pimax 5k+. In that case you're probably better off waiting. The jump from CV1 to Index would be a significant one, but from 5k+ not so much.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I'd suggest at least something of this generation - a Quest 2 or Valve Index if money is no problem. Each has its strenghts and weaknesses though.

EDIT: didn't see you have the pimax 5k+. In that case you're probably better off waiting. The jump from CV1 to Index would be a significant one, but from 5k+ not so much.

After those couple of months with the G2, I just spent 2 hours in Elite on the old Rift CV1. I must say the black levels and colours are amazing in the CV1. It completely blows the G2 and Pimax 5k+ out of the water. Of course the G2 is better in every other way - resolution, screen door, god rays, banding, smearing, etc. But even so, it gave me new found respect for the Rift.

Since my VR time is spent more in Elite than anywhere else, I'll wait for a next gen VR headset with LED panels. I've been too spoilt by the OLEDs of the CV1 to settle for the far inferior LCDs I've seen so far.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Since my VR time is spent more in Elite than anywhere else, I'll wait for a next gen VR headset with LED panels. I've been too spoilt by the OLEDs of the CV1 to settle for the far inferior LCDs I've seen so far.

Sadly we're seeing global shift from OLED to LCD wrt VR screens. It might be a cost issue, or a burn-in issue maybe. I wouldn't want Elite HUD elements burned permanently into the screen ;-) [though for the record 3 years owning of HTC Vive and it didn't burn-in]. Also colours seem to be more saturated on OLED panels - I compared OG Vive and 5k+ side by side back in the day, and found the Vive to have much nicer picture, alas with much more screendoor and less clarity sweetspot.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Sadly we're seeing global shift from OLED to LCD wrt VR screens. It might be a cost issue, or a burn-in issue maybe. I wouldn't want Elite HUD elements burned permanently into the screen ;-) [though for the record 3 years owning of HTC Vive and it didn't burn-in]. Also colours seem to be more saturated on OLED panels - I compared OG Vive and 5k+ side by side back in the day, and found the Vive to have much nicer picture, alas with much more screendoor and less clarity sweetspot.

Yes I totally agree. Colours way more saturated and vivid with OLED. If anything over-saturated in the CV1. Re burn-in, I wouldn't have expected it to be much of an issue for VR. It's not like a monitor where screen UI is permanently set in a single position. We're constantly looking around in VR. I hope they're not choosing LCD based on cost alone.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

FWIW, I also just took a through-the-lens picture of the Rift CV1 in similar conditions to my previous G2 pic. Here they are side by side. They're bad pics given that all I was doing was holding up my old Samsung Galaxy S8 phone to the lens/mask of each headset. Still, I think it shows the main issue I have with LCDs - the black levels.

Edit: Also, apologies for the lack of focus. Very difficult to get the phone to focus this close to the lens.

Reverb G2	Rift CV1

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Yes I totally agree. Colours way more saturated and vivid with OLED. If anything over-saturated in the CV1. Re burn-in, I wouldn't have expected it to be much of an issue for VR. It's not like a monitor where screen UI is permanently set in a single position. We're constantly looking around in VR. I hope they're not choosing LCD based on cost alone.

Its nearly always about meeting a set of design criteria and accepting some tradeoffs in the consumer HMD space.

If you look at the pro HMDs where there is no compromise - the XTAL is a good example - they are using OLED panels.

 

[Dooguk]

Its nearly always about meeting a set of design criteria and accepting some tradeoffs in the consumer HMD space.

If you look at the pro HMDs where there is no compromise - the XTAL is a good example - they are using OLED panels.

To quote the HP website...

HP Reverb G2
The no-compromise VR headset
Developed in collaboration with Valve and Microsoft, our breakthrough VR headset delivers a more immersive, comfortable, and compatible experience.

Sure has it's fair share of compromises for a no-compromise headset. Designed by a committee?

 

[KungFuBlues]

Yeah I noticed the black levels are bad in the G2 as well. As soon as a headset with high resolution comes out with good black levels and no screen door I'm buying. Also my G2 screen occasionally goes blank, but from what I understand it is a USB voltage issue and the G2 is sensitive to it, so if you MOBO outputs USB voltages low in the spec ahem Asus it might not work. Also the G2 straight up wouldn't work with the vast majority of my USB ports, so if you have an ASUS motherboard you may want to buy a different headset unless you don't mind rolling the dice and possibly have to upgrade your MOBO.

BTW I ran Elite Dangerous on a GTX 1070 with the G2 runs well. I have a GTX 1080 TI now due to other games not running to an acceptable level on the 1070.