Just as I expect those who don't use VR would be disadvantaged compared to VR players if teleportation was implemented for the latter in the event that FPS VR locomotion required it.
I'd be super surprised if FDev ever went with teleport. It doesn't fit with the world at all, and there are other locomotion options available that are much more comparable to classic controls, which also tackle nausea elements etc. (Controller relative / HMD relative).
I think the whole parity of control schemes thing can be overstated. It's certainly something FDev would want to look to balance where possible (movement speed, inhibiting exploits like 'wall hacks' via head clipping etc), but it's not something they can ultimately balance entirely. (Just as they don't entirely balance the mismatches between mouse / controller / HOTAS in flight).
FWIW in discussions I've had with hardcore FPS PvPers, the opinion seems to be that K/M is still king for actual shooting accuracy. I suspect this could be the case. (Lower VR acuity and hand accuracy don't lend themselves to snapping headshots off at movement at the end of a corridor / aligning a crosshairs in a mili-second etc)
I suspect what would happen is that everyone would just use the set up that works best for them, as with now, and make their own call on the pros and cons.
FWIW in discussions I've had with hardcore FPS PvPers, the opinion seems to be that K/M is still king for actual shooting accuracy. I suspect this could be the case. (Lower VR acuity and hand accuracy don't lend themselves to snapping headshots off at movement at the end of a corridor / aligning a crosshairs in a mili-second etc)
I expect that depends on whether traversal from current aim point to new target is instant point / click or whether there's a defined angular speed limit associated with changes in weapon aim point.
I expect that depends on whether traversal from current aim point to new target is instant point / click or whether there's a defined angular speed limit associated with changes in weapon aim point.
Anything that mismatches with your natural motion in VR would actually be fairly confusing / off-putting, so I don't see any advantage for VR there. IE if there was a lag between attempting to aim a heavy rocket launcher, and the launcher wrestling into position. (It's actually considered a minor source of nausea too, when limbs are depicted).
Would be an interesting one though for sure. (I know FDev have mentioned slower movement speed associated with the heavy rocket launcher, and slower projectile speed seems a given going by the vids, and talk of plasmas having the same. Guess we'll see whether slower manual targeting is also a thing).
Anything that mismatches with your natural motion in VR would actually be fairly confusing / off-putting, so I don't see any advantage for VR there. IE if there was a lag between attempting to aim a heavy rocket launcher, and the launcher wrestling into position. (It's actually considered a minor source of nausea too, when limbs are depicted).
(Conversely, it's interesting to me that they seem to be favouring black screen transitions for ship/SRV exit at the moment. Canned animations would be another area that would be problematic for VR. Would be intriguing if they genuinely were devving EDO with future VR addition in mind, as they say )
Skyrim in VR, when you choose to play with a controller and all the sickness blinkers turned off, plays exactly like the 2d game only you can look around easier. I don't understand what this issue is. If Skyrim was a multiplayer game VR would have a slight advantage with the viewing but other than that it'd be an equal match. I play it with a bow and a controller, no issues at all with movement, drawing the bow animation etc.
(Conversely, it's interesting to me that they seem to be favouring black screen transitions for ship/SRV exit at the moment. Canned animations would be another area that would be problematic for VR. Would be intriguing if they genuinely were devving EDO with future VR addition in mind, as they say )
I doubt that many players would appreciate an unskippable walk / lift sequence every single time they wanted to board or leave their ship. It may be that we get the option to at some point when ship interiors are added though - however with the lack of interiors at launch, we're getting a fade to black transition - just as we do for SRV / SLF at the moment.
I can only think of the modded version of SubnauticaVR that has the option for these vehicle boarding transitions.
The standard VR game is fade-to-black but the mod allows the fully animated (but brief) ladder climbs etc. I didn’t find them bad at all because it only feels like a quick rise-up or drop - the player viewpoint remains under player control while the player body is doing its thing.
This does lead to slightly weird situations where you’re climbing a ladder while your owl head is looking right over your shoulder
I can only think of the modded version of SubnauticaVR that has the option for these vehicle boarding transitions.
The standard VR game is fade-to-black but the mod allows the fully animated (but brief) ladder climbs etc. I didn’t find them bad at all because it only feels like a quick rise-up or drop - the player viewpoint remains under player control while the player body is doing its thing.
This does lead to slightly weird situations where you’re climbing a ladder while your owl head is looking right over your shoulder
Skyrim in VR, when you choose to play with a controller and all the sickness blinkers turned off, plays exactly like the 2d game only you can look around easier. I don't understand what this issue is.
Robert is talking about motion controllers. IE a different control scheme being introduced. (On top of any other disparities caused by free headlook / roomscale movement).
In that example there you're using a classic control input, so there's no disparity.
I expect that depends on whether traversal from current aim point to new target is instant point / click or whether there's a defined angular speed limit associated with changes in weapon aim point.
Just read though the thread and noticed you had Q2! Are you enjoying it?
Also noticed your thoughts regarding FPS and VR. I am so confident you will change your thoughts regarding this after you try out some games and see for yourself that I wont say anymore!
Apart from...
play Half Life Alyx (because... wow!)
and then just replay the first couple of levels in Half-Life 2. As you do, compare the VR fps with pancake, thinking about how far FD will need to restrict M&K performance to even start to make it fairer for VR motion controller users, regardless of weapon profiles
You are quite entitled to that view of course - I was only pointing out that some people insist on claiming they "know" things about the development of the game they clearly dont.
Everyone as a customer should lobby for what they want - but there is no need to make stuff up.
Also noticed your thoughts regarding FPS and VR. I am so confident you will change your thoughts regarding this after you try out some games and see for yourself that I wont say anymore!
I'm very unlikely to change my mind with respect to obvious advantages over non-VR players that would be gifted to VR players if there were to be a full motion controller / teleportation locomotion implentation.
Apart from...
play Half Life Alyx (because... wow!)
and then just replay the first couple of levels in Half-Life 2. As you do, compare the VR fps with pancake, thinking about how far FD will need to restrict M&K performance to even start to make it fairer for VR motion controller users, regardless of weapon profiles
I expect that KB/M players will face similar restrictions in Odyssey as they do in the game at the moment regardless of whether Frontier consider offering a motion controller option for VR users - as, while M&K users have some advantage when flying / driving, they don't get a point/click instant targeting at the moment - so I don't expect there'll be point/click instant targeting in Odyssey for KB/M players.
If I can survive Skyrim in VR, I'm pretty sure I could survive ED FPS in VR. BTW, I do full-motion, not this silly teleport thing, but for those who rely on that, it could be done as a "fade to black" from the perspective of the VR player, but it would be seen as a quick sprint from point A to point B by anyone looking at the this player, because actually "teleporting" isn't an option in a PvP FPS game.
Ouch! Yes, you do loose instant EDDB access etc. I am aware of those plug-ins too and that they don't work but guess I have never used them so don't miss them. You also don't get access to reshaders. :/
I use VA to mitigate some of these issues e.g. I find the system in EDDB and copy it to clipboard then have a voice command for paste in the gal map back in VR.
But yeah.
I'm very unlikely to change my mind with respect to obvious advantages over non-VR players that would be gifted to VR players if there were to be a full motion controller / teleportation locomotion implentation.
Again, fair enough for teleportation - but I can't think of many VR player who want teleporation. And easy fix, disable it.
What do you think about an untethered headlook? Whatever controller you use just controls the crosshair but you can look around separately?
And to prevent VR users going through walls, have the screen go ED orange when their HMD or controlloer hits the wall (or just before) and stop movement until they move whatever it was back? I think that is how it is done now anyway.
Apart from VR millitary sims or 'serious' combat games like where everyone is in the same boat, I can't name a single VR shooter where either the targets aren't well within 20m (SpacePirateTrainer), the guns aren't point and spray (Serious Sam VR) or, if the previous statement wasn't true, there aren't more than at maximum 4 or 5 targets at once (HalfLife Alyx)?
Population One? Even that has rapid locomotion and I believe a healthy aim assist where I am assuming standard aim assist.
There are so many hurdles for VR with regard to FPSs, let alone motion controllers.
I do speak from some experience here. Back in the day I used to game in S3D. It's immersive but no-one uses S3D competitively because you have to focus at different depths. VR is S3D.
And then adding motion controllers to a mix? Forgive the hyperbole but compared to M&K, I think that's like getting squirels to use ladders to climb trees.
I expect that KB/M players will face similar restrictions in Odyssey as they do in the game at the moment regardless of whether Frontier consider offering a motion controller option for VR users - as, while M&K users have some advantage when flying / driving, they don't get a point/click instant targeting at the moment - so I don't expect there'll be point/click instant targeting in Odyssey for KB/M players.
I can't remember how targetting is carried out in ED for non-VR but sure, if non-VR CMDRs don't get click and target, then that is a significant disadvantage compared to VR, where in VR you can 'look' and click to lock target.
If Odyssey does use a point and click like feature for tracking whilst in 1st P mode than I think that changes things were I believe it will be something like:
eye tracking > M&K > Controller > HMD pointing > Motion Controller pointing
Just as I expect those who don't use VR would be disadvantaged compared to VR players if teleportation was implemented for the latter in the event that FPS VR locomotion required it.
I would like full VR, but I think its better to get EDO out and stable first. FD made a large concession to include in ship/srv VR in EDO already and its interesting how "delayed" EDO is becoming.
Replace teleportation with sprinting (made available to everyone), and problem solved. Just have VR player's view "fade to black" during the sprint from point A to point B.
Replace teleportation with sprinting (made available to everyone), and problem solved. Just have VR player's view "fade to black" during the sprint from point A to point B.
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